Rumours and Stuff

[TheRam]

does anyone else think we are just too big and bloated as a football team? especially in the 6 again era of the NRL.

I was watching the roosters the other night and looking at some of their forwards and thought to my self, there's a lot of forwards on the smaller end of the spectrum here. I know the roosters arn't the best example this season but regardless of where they're coming on the ladder they're a club whos finger is always close to the pulse. Also look at the success the cowboys are having and a lot of it is based on these smaller hard working forward they have developed recently.

Is our poor defense a result of the fact we have two really big and slow edge forwards? we lack good line speed and lateral movement and i'm thinking its a result of being oversized. Do our winger constantly have to jam up and in because of the fact we don't have edge forwards that can cover ground quickly? Marata is the closest thing we have to a pure edge atm and the right edge looked great last year when he was playing back row with the emergence of Penisini also.

I feel like we have built a team to win a comp but not a comp in 2022. Just like the new stripping rule or the six again rule, we arn't proactive in taking advantage of new rules when they come into effect. I feel like maybe we haven't anticipated what kind of players you'd need to compete in this faster era of RL.

Again all that comes down to the coach to assess and be ahead of the game and change tactics where necessary. Our team and tactics haven't changed much for a few seasons now. So it falls on the head coach or at least a combined think tank of ideas that would include his assistants, no? But as we know he has bog average assistants and his own personality seems like one that is fixed, set in his beliefs and ways of doing things, who resists change so maybe it is a little like turning an ocean line.

I remember Andrew Johns being asked earlier this season why he left Parra and was there anything there to report. He didn't want to say much, but kind of hinted that he wanted to implement a few changes and ideas and do things a little differently but there was resistance to it, implying that the coach wasn't willing. But he wouldn't elaborate.

I think our coach has reached his limits. We need a better coach that has a more expansive football philosophy to take control of these guys with new ideas and a fresh voice. Only then will we really know how good or not this roster really is. Unfortunately the roster looks like it is going to be quite different next season and definitely beyond. I doubt very much that it will be stronger next season and who knows after that. If we have held onto this guy till the end of his current contract, I fear what we hand over to the next guy will be a bottom eight team. Then everyone will pan the new guy and the BA lovers will point out and say that, 'see changing the coach isn't the panacea that we kept saying it would be'.

But no one here is asking for miracles. We just want our team to play consistently and to its full potential and BA can't do that, which I believe if coached differently this roster is more then capable of taking out the title. BA has built a great squad but now it is spluttering once again. If we had cut him loose last year instead of rehiring him we could now see what a different coach and mind of ideas could do with this individually great squad. Instead it looks like when the new coach comes in he will need to do a bit of rebuilding to get us back to being a semi final contender let alone a premiership contender.

At least 5 years away and probably never really. We as a club just don't have the right stuff to be premiership winners again. The only way I can see us ever winning a title again is if lightning struck again and we had enough decent old guys in the squad with experience and football ability and we got really, really lucky and a young crop of super talented kids emerged all together(that somehow we managed to identify and hold on to) and we did what we did in the eighties, but with the salary cap being what it is it would look more like the Tigers of 05 and then we would be dismantled by all the other clubs.

Sorry to be so negative, but after so many years and decades of following our club and rugby league in general, even from the outside looking in(sometimes it's a better perspective and less false noise) I know what a club that can win premiership looks like and does to get there. We aren't one of those. If we continue to do what we have been doing and not hiring for success, then I hate to say it but pou is right, only sheer luck and the perfect fluky fairytale of aligning events and outcomes will see us premiers again.

This club settles. Settlers both in games and life don't win much, if at all.

 

[Cloeel]

The use of the word "want" was borrowing from the words used by Poupou Escobar when he as repeatedly stated that the coach may not necessarily have the squad that he "wants".

My argument is that the coach has the squad needed to win a comp.

And if he doesn't have the squad he needs to win the comp after nine years - then you can only conclude that he will never get the squad that he needs at this club.

And if he definitively can't win a comp at this club, then we have to try a coach who possibly can.

It's the very definition of rational human behaviour to abandon that which cannot take you to where you need to be, in the hope that another path may lead you to the destination.

But well done on attempting to troll through semantics, I hope it gave you the dopamine hit you needed to get through the day....

The rational thing to do is fix problems from the ground up. Strengthen the foundations.

Changing coaches probably gives you the dopamine hit needed to feel like change is happening. Just to come to the realisation the issues go far beyond the bloke with the clipboard.

What percentage of clubs in the last 5 years have improved with Head coaching change or multiple changes? Cowboys? Panthers? - were these club improvements directly related to coaching changes? Who knows, although the club has probably taken steps to provide better resources for the bloke in charge.

I agree with your comment in regards to rational human behaviour and making changes. But you need to be making the right changes and improvements in the right areas. Otherwise coaching changes are futile and irrelevant to the bigger picture.

 

[TheRam]

all true but the eels 2022 team have shown us they cant achieve all the points you have made on a consistent basis and the question has to be why?

I have been watching footy for around 50 years now and I have seen this play many, many times. When a team by all measures individually has great players and they at times are amazing and many good judges had them winning the premiership or at least giving it a real hot crack, but start to swing massively in form and splutter and a coach that has been at the helm for many seasons, well the players are just numb to his voice, methods and ideas and need a fresh new change to re-energize them. It isn't rocket science.

 

[TheRam]

Penrith have a lightweight pack as well. Our recruitment is living in the past, like TheRam. Big fat forwards are suited to a slower ruck.

When did I say big fat forwards without either inferring or outright stating with talent. Besides, I also have said and would welcome smaller forwards with talent and skill, it's about different body types and at the time that I was calling for big merkins we had to many roughly 6 footers with no difference in shape or size. But you love misquoting people. It is the only way you can look like you actually know what a good footballer looks like.

Oh btw, Junior Paulo is our only current and continually picked SOO player, But I doubt anyone would want six of him in their pack mate no matter how good he is. You love saying sh*t and over emphasising crap, I suppose you can't help it, you're like the scorpion that couldn't change its nature, you're poo.

 

[TheRam]

Resources. Everything in the game costs resources, which implies a trade off. You improve one area and it costs you resources that you were using to sustain another area.

Bla bla bla...excuse...bla bla bla...excuse.

The well run clubs know which resources to prioritize and keep and resources to ditch. They don't look for excuses.

 

[Cloeel]

Bla bla bla...excuse...bla bla bla...excuse.

The well run clubs know which resources to prioritize and keep and resources to ditch. They don't look for excuses.

Yeah so is that a coaching or management problem?

 

[Noise]

Yeah so is that a coaching or management problem?

Management need to ditch the current coach so probably both.

 

[TheRam]

i was just looking at the QLD origin pack and theyre also very much on the smaller mobile side.

Im not saying we have to do anything too dramatic but complimenting RCG, Paulo, Matto and Lane next season with a couple of smaller more mobile hard working toilers who are going to set the tone in defense with good line speed and mobility could actually make us a better footy team.

Mate, we are hardly that big a freakin team like Pou or maybe you think we are.

Lets break it down a sec. Paulo is our only fat merkin. RCG and Matto even though are big are two of our better and more agile defenders. Land can be a little lazy and or exhausted due to the way we use him and or time spent on the field.

As for the rest of the forwards we use they are hardly giants or fat fu*kers. The two main interchange forwards that we have been using all year in Makatoa and Kaufusi are just bog average and don't have much impact either in attack or defense. Papalii is on the smaller side but can be a liability in defense and maybe we can't have our cake and eat it too by playing him on the edge when he really is a middle forward.

So two of our our biggest forwards are also two of our best defensive forwards and the other two big forwards need to be interchange better to get the best out of them. As for all the others Papalii is a great attacking weapon, but can miss a tackle here and there. As for all the others they are just average at best. The only other forward that we used to play but is now out of favour is Brown and he is hardly a giant either.

So is size really our problem or lack of aggressive ruck management that we just can't seem to master consistently like other teams that don't give a sh*t about ruck infringements or constant off sides knowing that the referee will eventually relent and not give 6 agains or penalties? I think we are way to passive in our defense and that that is our problem. We have no real merkin in it and are to clean a team. Think of it like the NSW first SOO game this year. We come out way to often like that, when we should be more like the QLD team in that game all the time though. We won't win premierships playing in a dinner suit when the other teams are playing in a boiler suit.

Whenever we get rolled by these lesser teams just watch how passive our forwards are in particular and slow our line speed is usually from the very beginning of the game. So you can't say the 2 or 3 big men that we have on the field are knackered or running on empty. It is a mental thing and the way we are trained thing. Watch you might then not believe everything Pou spews out on this forum and actually tell him to stick it like I do. It's great fun.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

That’s why we should extend him. Low expectations and rewarding mediocrity is what we are about.

Well you’re missing the point. Where is your evidence that any coach could win the comp with our current resourcing? I put it to you that our current results are likely our peak, and we may have to do a Bradbury to win the comp. Finishing 6th is a lot closer to being able to do that than finishing 7th to 16th. And as we’ve seen, if you can finish sixth you can sneak into fourth. It’s very exciting.

 

[TheRam]

So why did we re-sign both Paulo and RCG then?? With the new rules you can get away with one really big man but not two especially with the sort of coin they’re on.

Lack of resources and money again I suppose……..

Don't fall for pou's crap. Our 2 starting front rowers are our strength at this point not our weakness. Our bench, line speed in defense and our ruck training are our weakest link. All fixable if we had the right people driving the changes necessary. We aren't all that big in a bad way, but in a good way.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Is it that small. Kikau, Leota,Yeo, Martin arent small. All medium to large size

Kikau is the only one over 110kg and probably the fastest in the team. He is a freak, plus playing out wide he doesn’t need to work as hard in defence. Their middles are all lightweight compared to the bigger forwards in the comp.

 

[Noise]

Well you’re missing the point. Where is your evidence that any coach could win the comp with our current resourcing? I put it to you that our current results are likely our peak, and we may have to do a Bradbury to win the comp. Finishing 6th is a lot closer to being able to do that than finishing 7th to 16th. And as we’ve seen, if you can finish sixth you can sneak into fourth. It’s very exciting.

Let’s just say our current resources remain the same and we keep finishing around 6th meeting your ‘realistic’expectations. How many more years would you keep Brad Arthur around for?

 

[84 Baby]

One day Ram will write a post that spans multiple pages of a thread.
FMD….

 

[Poupou Escobar]

So why did we re-sign both Paulo and RCG then?? With the new rules you can get away with one really big man but not two especially with the sort of coin they’re on.

Lack of resources and money again I suppose……..

I’d say the plan is to recruit toilers to build around them. But also RCG is a hard worker. The problem is lack of go forward from elsewhere means we rely on him to make a lot of carries and play long minutes. That reduces his effectiveness in defence.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Let’s just say our current resources remain the same and we keep finishing around 6th meeting your ‘realistic’expectations. How many more years would you keep Brad Arthur around for?

As long as he was getting the best out of the squad.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Let the club know then merkin, FFS!!
Put in your resume, between you and Pou you could have the club fixed in no time.

Haha nah we’ll just replace the coach again, problem solved

 

[Noise]

As long as he was getting the best out of the squad.

Out of the say 20 odd players who have played first grade this year, who do you think are at their best?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

You keep banging on about low expectations and poor resources

No I think we have decent resources and we should expect top six finishes. That isn’t low. There’s plenty of clubs with fewer resources than us.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

@Poupou Escobar you have been… LEGALISED!

ffs

 

[TheRam]

Yeah so is that a coaching or management problem?

Can be both.