End promotion and relegation

[Gobsmacked]

The game across Europe simply can't move forward with this ridiculous structure. The franchise system whereby Stadium, finance and business structure was ideal but implemented ( like everything so far) hap hazardous and poorly planned.

We need a 10 year plan to reintroduce the franchise system with licence reviews every 5 years. This will give every championship club or aspiring applications time to prepare and ensure for entry. There will be no excuse for those who miss out and will rule out the drum banging to bring back this ridiculous system.

Super League - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Perth Red]

Throughout the history of RL in England there has been various periods of closed licenses and P&R. It doesn’t seem there has been any significant difference during these periods. The problem isn’t the model, it’s the lack of funding available on the game in England and France.

without P&R Toulouse would not be in SL this year. They’ve been given a chance, sure a one hand behind you’re back chance, but a chance non the less. With licensing it’s highly unlikely they would have been given a license. Just ask Perth or Adelaide RL fans how useful licensing is to grow the game.

 

[jim_57]

Throughout the history of RL in England there has been various periods of closed licenses and P&R. It doesn’t seem there has been any significant difference during these periods. The problem isn’t the model, it’s the lack of funding available on the game in England and France.

without P&R Toulouse would not be in SL this year. They’ve been given a chance, sure a one hand behind you’re back chance, but a chance non the less. With licensing it’s highly unlikely they would have been given a license. Just ask Perth or Adelaide RL fans how useful licensing is to grow the game.

That last part is very debatable though, last time licensing was in Celtic Crusaders got in with what I’d say was a far weaker setup than what Toulouse has currently.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Throughout the history of RL in England there has been various periods of closed licenses and P&R. It doesn’t seem there has been any significant difference during these periods. The problem isn’t the model, it’s the lack of funding available on the game in England and France.

without P&R Toulouse would not be in SL this year. They’ve been given a chance, sure a one hand behind you’re back chance, but a chance non the less. With licensing it’s highly unlikely they would have been given a license. Just ask Perth or Adelaide RL fans how useful licensing is to grow the game.

The entire expansion of the NRL has been without P&R you fool.
That started in Sydney... then Wollongong, Penrith, Newcastle...Brisbane!! North Qld ...
NEW ZEALAND!! MELBOURNE!!!

yet a small corridor in the north of England...
Adelaide and Perth ... far flung, isolated,big country towns.

 

[Gobsmacked]

P&R is a massive waste of time and money.
How can you expect people to invest money and time into such a small window of hope?
Take the risk out of the investment with licensing.

 

[Perth Red]

The entire expansion of the NRL has been without P&R you fool.
That started in Sydney... then Wollongong, Penrith, Newcastle...Brisbane!! North Qld ...
NEW ZEALAND!! MELBOURNE!!!

yet a small corridor in the north of England...
Adelaide and Perth ... far flung, isolated,big country towns.

And only one of them is actually an expansion club. Getting newcastle in nrl would be like admitting bradford to SL lol.
Reality is nrl licensing model has not seen poor clubs leave to make room for new bigger markets. toulouse don’t bring anything more in reality than Castleford or Huddersfield.
So we either end up in nrl situation where the game can’t grow because they dont want to slice the pie thinner or the p&r SL model that creates yo yo clubs.
I’m first to admit I don’t have the answer but it seems neither model is particularly effective at helping the game expand into new markets whilst clearing the dead weights.

haha perth is the 4th biggest city in the country!

 

[Perth Red]

P&R is a massive waste of time and money.
How can you expect people to invest money and time into such a small window of hope?
Take the risk out of the investment with licensing.

again there has been numerous periods in the English game when it has been a license type model, guess what? it didn’t lead to big investors moving into the game lol.

 

[Gobsmacked]

And only one of them is actually an expansion club. Getting newcastle in nrl would be like admitting bradford to SL lol.
Reality is nrl licensing model has not seen poor clubs leave to make room for new bigger markets. toulouse don’t bring anything more in reality than Castleford or Huddersfield.
So we either end up in nrl situation where the game can’t grow because they dont want to slice the pie thinner or the p&r SL model that creates yo yo clubs.
I’m first to admit I don’t have the answer but it seems neither model is particularly effective at helping the game expand into new markets whilst clearing the dead weights.

haha perth is the 4th biggest city in the country!

Hahaha 4th biggest! Second smallest actually city.
Perth and Adelaide are barely cities.
You can walk the entire cbd in an hour.
They just aren't significant markets, when you travel nobody's heard of them.
I was isolated in Perth for a while, came to my senses and left.

 

[Perth Red]

Hahaha 4th biggest! Second smallest actually city.
Perth and Adelaide are barely cities.
You can walk the entire cbd in an hour.
They just aren't significant markets, when you travel nobody's heard of them.
I was isolated in Perth for a while, came to my senses and left.

Alright your clearly a troll, perth has over 2 million people. Bye.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Alright your clearly a troll, perth has over 2 million people. Bye.

I'm not trolling. I just do see that Perth is really relevant to anyone outside of Perth. The most isolated city on Earth.
The travel is a massive drawback, there will never be a rival . It already has a lot of professional sports teams for such a small city.
How much talent is it contributing to RL?

 

[TDD91]

The relegation battle is one of the most interesting parts of this season. It's not just a 2 horse race for once. Even the Promotion isn't a foregone conclusion as Featherstone could surprise Leigh in a one off game.

 

[Gobsmacked]

The relegation battle is one of the most interesting parts of this season. It's not just a 2 horse race for once. Even the Promotion isn't a foregone conclusion as Featherstone could surprise Leigh in a one off game.

Just seems heartbreaking to me. They spend a year trying to qualify, upgrade their roster, spend the year improving and building a fan base only to be replaced by a team less qualified.
But sure, what a thrill to see which team dies

 

[Wb1234]

Don’t waste your time english rugby league is a basket case

they killed off Toronto

now other clubs like huddersfield want to get rid of catalans

 

[Gobsmacked]

Don’t waste your time english rugby league is a basket case

they killed off Toronto

now other clubs like huddersfield want to get rid of catalans

Totally. It's a poor business model. It needs to be bought out. If someone bought out the majority of clubs and overhauled the competition. It would be be twice as good after 5 years with little effort.
Should have been a strong 20 team competition by now but there's too many knuckle daggers trying to keep it in the cave for themselves.
The game will move on around the north of England like the world around an Amazon tribe.

 

[Wb1234]

Totally. It's a poor business model. It needs to be bought out. If someone bought out the majority of clubs and overhauled the competition. It would be be twice as good after 5 years with little effort.
Should have been a strong 20 team competition by now but there's too many knuckle daggers trying to keep it in the cave for themselves.
The game will move on around the north of England like the world around an Amazon tribe.

When Murdoch took over super league the promise was two French super league clubs

this is back in 1995

leigh are literally a suburb of Wigan

even London is close to death now

places like Gateshead and wales have failed recently

 

[Perth Red]

There are many problems in the UK game, structure is but one and not the main one imo.
Supporting a club that has both been locked out of SL due to licensing and then got the opportunity to go in due to P&R, then been relegated due to P&R, then gone back up, and done that twice!, I'm all too aware of the highs and lows of both structures. Its not an easy answer and there are pros and cons to both systems. In the UK there are not strong large populations and clubs wanting to come into SL, and those that do currently have a very clear system in which they can invest and do so. Its very hard to stay up for sure as you dint have the time to build a team, but having said that there was nothing stopping Toulouse building a better team in the championship to give them a fighting chance when promoted.
Under licensing you have no such option of admission on merit and just have to wait to see if you get lucky. Now being in Perth we know what that feels like!

In an ideal world we'd have a successful Toulouse, London, Bradford and Wales in SL and a licensed 16 team comp with the tv funding to pay for it. But we don't live in an ideal world.

 

[Gobsmacked]

There are many problems in the UK game, structure is but one and not the main one imo.
Supporting a club that has both been locked out of SL due to licensing and then got the opportunity to go in due to P&R, then been relegated due to P&R, then gone back up, and done that twice!, I'm all too aware of the highs and lows of both structures. Its not an easy answer and there are pros and cons to both systems. In the UK there are not strong large populations and clubs wanting to come into SL, and those that do currently have a very clear system in which they can invest and do so. Its very hard to stay up for sure as you dint have the time to build a team, but having said that there was nothing stopping Toulouse building a better team in the championship to give them a fighting chance when promoted.
Under licensing you have no such option of admission on merit and just have to wait to see if you get lucky. Now being in Perth we know what that feels like!

In an ideal world we'd have a successful Toulouse, London, Bradford and Wales in SL and a licensed 16 team comp with the tv funding to pay for it. But we don't live in an ideal world.

The main problem is that no matter how good the sides are in SL - one of them will be bottom.
Toulouse have won 5 games against SL opposition , 1 of those against the league leader and come close a multitude of times.
They're a SL club .
The only reason they won't be is an archaic system.
For a few weeks there it looked like it could have even been Leeds...
Let that sink in.

 

[Perth Red]

Ok say we had licensing, that would have meant for Toulouse to come into SL this year either someone would have had to lose their license, or the comp would have had to expand. And we've seen with the NRl how likely that is and how long it takes to happen. At least with P&R they had a chance, they haven't taken that chance, they'll go back down. Under licensing they wouldn't have even had a chance. If you turned it to NRL it would be like taking the license off Cronulla and giving it to Perth. Or as we are now, waiting decades for expansion of licenses to introduce a new club. Neither system is without its problems

Are they really a SL club though? Seems to me they dont have the resources to build a squad in a short time capable of staying up. Their crowds have been at the bottom end of the table, their do or die clash against leeds only drew 4k, and they havent won enough games. As I've often heard, the table doesn't lie.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Ok say we had licensing, that would have meant for Toulouse to come into SL this year either someone would have had to lose their license, or the comp would have had to expand. And we've seen with the NRl how likely that is and how long it takes to happen. At least with P&R they had a chance, they haven't taken that chance, they'll go back down. Under licensing they wouldn't have even had a chance. If you turned it to NRL it would be like taking the license off Cronulla and giving it to Perth. Or as we are now, waiting decades for expansion of licenses to introduce a new club. Neither system is without its problems

The SL should be a 20 team comp by now .
It should be continually be adding teams as they become viable. If someone with big pockets wants to start a franchise , fund it and its a viable business case - go for it.
As it is now, you have small towns that ad no commercial business, no new fans or even engage rivals having the opportunity to jump up and knock off a more viable franchise.

 

[Perth Red]

The SL should be a 20 team comp by now .
It should be continually be adding teams as they become viable. If someone with big pockets wants to start a franchise , fund it and its a viable business case - go for it.
As it is now, you have small towns that ad no commercial business, no new fans or even engage rivals having the opportunity to jump up and knock off a more viable franchise.

It cant afford it. Reality is clubs are as reliant on the tv grant as they are in the nrl. Unfortunately the difference is in UK the TV grant doesn't pay much and isn't going up. So there's no money to bring in new teams. Id love to see Toulouse in for the benefit of French RL but in the cold hard light of day they don't bring anything money wise to SL or the tv value and no visiting fans to the clubs even. Thats where the rock and hard place comes in, we want new clubs from outside the M62 but none of them are offering much in way of revenue growth as the sport is so small. Better minds than mine have tried to find an answer and failed so far.