Rumoured Signings

[Mark B]

Tigers have a piss poor record with this sort of thing. Didn’t they say Josh Aloai was going to be mowing the lawns at Leichhardt if he did not honour his Tigers contract and would not play for Manly. I like the Tigers but they are run by a complete bunch of bums.

 

[Bazal]

So NRL officials are going to be arrested any day now for refusing to register Milford's contract with Souths?

Like I said, registration of the contract has nothing to do with contract law, it's purely the NRL registering a player to play for a particular team. If your contract hasn't been registered by them, you don't get to play. Unless the Tigers agree to release Papali'i from his obligations, he doesn't get registered for another team.

That's...a rather illogical leap? It's also largely irrelevant as Milford was accused of criminal behaviour and reputational damage is one of the largest factors in terms of seriousness of misconduct.

No one has even hinted at criminal illegality, my dude. You don't get arrested for terminating a merkin from employment because of his race, which is pretty heavy unlawful activity...what on Earth makes you think anyone is suggesting the NRL is going to be criminally penalised for a hypothetically unlawful contracting practice?

What law, act, or other instrument gives the NRL the right to refuse to register a contract for an employee of an NRL club, do you know?

 

[Maximus]

That's...a rather illogical leap? It's also largely irrelevant as Milford was accused of criminal behaviour and reputational damage is one of the largest factors in terms of seriousness of misconduct.

No one has even hinted at criminal illegality, my dude. You don't get arrested for terminating a merkin from employment because of his race, which is pretty heavy unlawful activity...what on Earth makes you think anyone is suggesting the NRL is going to be criminally penalised for a hypothetically unlawful contracting practice?

What law, act, or other instrument gives the NRL the right to refuse to register a contract for an employee of an NRL club, do you know?

What law requires them to register any contract provided to them? Are they even a party to the contract for contract law to even come into it?

When SBW ran off overseas, why did he/Toulon have to pay a transfer fee if he could just break contract? And why did a court put in place an injunction stopping him from playing for any other team?

Back in the day Tallis lost in court and couldn't play for the Broncos.

History shows players can't just break contracts and play for who they want.

 

[Bazal]

What law requires them to register any contract provided to them? Are they even a party to the contract for contract law to even come into it?

When SBW ran off overseas, why did he/Toulon have to pay a transfer fee if he could just break contract? And why did a court put in place an injunction stopping him from playing for any other team?

Back in the day Tallis lost in court and couldn't play for the Broncos.

History shows players can't just break contracts and play for who they want.

I don't believe there is a law that requires the registration of the country, that's the point. The NRL has oversight for operative reasons due to the salary cap and other image reasons, as you pointed out with Milford for eg. They may not be a party to the contract, I'm not sure, but I'm unsure why you might think that prevents contract law from coming into it? These are literally contracts so of course contract law is relevant when they subject is a player possibly backflipping on one...

SBW was an interlocutory injunction without ever reaching a full determination because the parties settled IIRC (ie they signed a mutual deed to end proceedings). But the Bulldogs had to lodge that interloc, nothing stopped him leaving. Same with Parra and Bushpig Lyon

Tallis was made to sit out, but he had signed with a rival competition not just a rival team. There was a heck of a lot more complication going on there. He was definitely taken to have repudiated his Dragons contract though, as evidenced by the fact they never had to pay him.

Again, my point is not that Papali'i is free and clear to do whatever he wants. It's just that it's nowhere near as simple as this idea that a contract is a massive, fully binding, ironclad prison. There's a huge mass of stuff about it that simply never been tested, that's all

 

[Captain Apollo]

I don't believe there is a law that requires the registration of the country, that's the point. The NRL has oversight for operative reasons due to the salary cap and other image reasons, as you pointed out with Milford for eg. They may not be a party to the contract, I'm not sure, but I'm unsure why you might think that prevents contract law from coming into it? These are literally contracts so of course contract law is relevant when they subject is a player possibly backflipping on one...

SBW was an interlocutory injunction without ever reaching a full determination because the parties settled IIRC (ie they signed a mutual deed to end proceedings). But the Bulldogs had to lodge that interloc, nothing stopped him leaving. Same with Parra and Bushpig Lyon

Tallis was made to sit out, but he had signed with a rival competition not just a rival team. There was a heck of a lot more complication going on there. He was definitely taken to have repudiated his Dragons contract though, as evidenced by the fact they never had to pay him.

Again, my point is not that Papali'i is free and clear to do whatever he wants. It's just that it's nowhere near as simple as this idea that a contract is a massive, fully binding, ironclad prison. There's a huge mass of stuff about it that simply never been tested, that's all

If you have a signed employment contract which is for a specified period, your employer cannot use legal means to force you to turn up and perform your contracted duties. It is effectively viewed as "slavery" if that was permissable. What an employer can do though is withhold any salary/wages for as long as the employee does not turn up and perform their duties. So an employee can withhold labour to try and force a move, as you have pointed out.

You have touched on the issue of what can the player do. You only have to look at the "Canterbury Four" case in 1995 when Pay, Smith, McCracken and Dymock went to court to get their contracts declared invalid so they could remain in the ARL competition for 1996 and play for the Parramatta Eels instead. They got their SL contracts over turned as they had been denied access to outside counsel to review the contracts SL offered them, and were heavily pressured to sign them right away. Even Brad Fittler and Matt Sing had to go to court to get out of their contracts with Penrith to they could go to the Roosters in 1996.

As such Tallis new short of legal action, he would not be able to get out of his contract with St George. That combined with SL not happening is why he sat out the 1996 season.

Also your contention about Papali'i's contract is not quite as complicated either. There is plenty of case law in Australia regarding fixed term employment contracts.

 

[Bazal]

If you have a signed employment contract which is for a specified period, your employer cannot use legal means to force you to turn up and perform your contracted duties. It is effectively viewed as "slavery" if that was permissable. What an employer can do though is withhold any salary/wages for as long as the employee does not turn up and perform their duties. So an employee can withhold labour to try and force a move, as you have pointed out.

Correct, the employer can't force you to turn up at any stage. However, in general employment you would simply get the sack. An employer can also make several legal applications with regard to an employee in that circumstance, as can the employee. They aren't aimed at forcing anyone to turn up but, for example, an employee might lodge an application under s.372 alleging that the employer has unreasonably caused them to not be able to attend work in breach of their workplace rights - "I have a right under s.340 to complain about my working conditions and when I did, the employer altered my position to my detriment so I can't show up". An employer may also (for example under s.739) make various applications that would, in effect, result in a determination of the validity of the employee's reasons for not attending work, which may then allow them to terminate, if that is in dispute.

It is also not reasonable to withhold wages unless an instrument allows for it in the circumstance. Generally speaking, this is why employees will be placed on leave or leave without pay. There is no common law allowance for you to be suspended without pay in Australia (except in rare instances where the contract or award specifically allows for it) and most smart employers avoid any possible inference of it. That being said, this is different where you might be paid for work done (eg a casual employee).

In a situation like this you could be paid a baseline wage and not match payments (for example) because those are contingent on you playing a match.

Also your contention about Papali'i's contract is not quite as complicated either. There is plenty of case law in Australia regarding fixed term employment contracts.

There is, but as we said, this is not a garden variety fixed term contract if we accept that the player hasn't got the right to resign from it.

The nerd in me hopes it goes to court, but tbh I think this is all just shit chat and Ice will go to Wests

 

[Vic Mackey]

Tigers have a piss poor record with this sort of thing. Didn’t they say Josh Aloai was going to be mowing the lawns at Leichhardt if he did not honour his Tigers contract and would not play for Manly. I like the Tigers but they are run by a complete bunch of bums.

The entire reason this Papalli thing is even happening is because of the Tigers pathetic handedling of previous contract issues. Moses, Matterson, Aloiai all threw tantrums demanded to get out of contracts and despite the tough talk from Pascoe etc all got out with the tigers getting NOTHING. It’s completely short sighted and ridiculous management. If they put the foot down for just one of them, sucked it up and said ‘you can play nsw cup for the rest of your contract’ then there’s no way we’re seeing this ridiculous carry on from Papalli.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Correct, the employer can't force you to turn up at any stage. However, in general employment you would simply get the sack. An employer can also make several legal applications with regard to an employee in that circumstance, as can the employee. They aren't aimed at forcing anyone to turn up but, for example, an employee might lodge an application under s.372 alleging that the employer has unreasonably caused them to not be able to attend work in breach of their workplace rights - "I have a right under s.340 to complain about my working conditions and when I did, the employer altered my position to my detriment so I can't show up". An employer may also (for example under s.739) make various applications that would, in effect, result in a determination of the validity of the employee's reasons for not attending work, which may then allow them to terminate, if that is in dispute.

It is also not reasonable to withhold wages unless an instrument allows for it in the circumstance. Generally speaking, this is why employees will be placed on leave or leave without pay. There is no common law allowance for you to be suspended without pay in Australia (except in rare instances where the contract or award specifically allows for it) and most smart employers avoid any possible inference of it. That being said, this is different where you might be paid for work done (eg a casual employee).

In a situation like this you could be paid a baseline wage and not match payments (for example) because those are contingent on you playing a match.

There is, but as we said, this is not a garden variety fixed term contract if we accept that the player hasn't got the right to resign from it.

The nerd in me hopes it goes to court, but tbh I think this is all just shit chat and Ice will go to Wests

If a player decides to sit out to force a release, the club can then withhold wages as the player would not be upholding his/her part of the contract. If during the life of that contract, as the wording of them usually does bind them to a club for a fixed period, if they attempted to sign a contract to play during the life of the "old" contract with another NRL club, the current employer could get an injunction preventing them from playing for the "new" club. They could not stop them earing a living if they instead went and worked as a builders labourer, a carpenter, an office worker but they could get an injunction to prevent them playing professional rugby league for another side during the life of their current contract.

In general terms, the employment contract is between the club and the player. That is where the employer-employee relationship resides. However there are lots of clauses in a standard NRL player's contract which imposes certain obligations on the player and the NRL which is where things like the NRL Code of Conduct then comes into play. Whilst I have not seen one, a friend of mine who used to work at the NRL told me in general terms about it as he'd seen plenty of them.

You also may find these of some interest to read -

https://www.nswrl.com.au/siteassets/documents/nswrl-standard-playing-agreement-.pdf

Agents and You

Agents and You

www.nrl.com

https://websites.mygameday.app/get_file.cgi?id=99639

 

[Bazal]

If a player decides to sit out to force a release, the club can then withhold wages as the player would not be upholding his/her part of the contract. I

Only if there's an operative instrument that allows for them to do so. Otherwise it's unlawful to withhold pay (except like I said where that pay is contingent on an action, eg match payments).

NRL players aren't covered by an award or agreement, and I think we can all agree no manager is going to agree to a contract that allows payment to be withheld.

If during the life of that contract, as the wording of them usually does bind them to a club for a fixed period, if they attempted to sign a contract to play during the life of the "old" contract with another NRL club, the current employer could get an injunction preventing them from playing for the "new" club. They could not stop them earing a living if they instead went and worked as a builders labourer, a carpenter, an office worker but they could get an injunction to prevent them playing professional rugby league for another side during the life of their current contract.

Yep, which has been my point, as I said. The club could apply for an injunction, and the matter is then in the hands of the courts. My point is then also that once it's there, it's not anything like as simple as "this contract is ironclad, cub wins!".

As an example, gig-economy workers have not ever been considered employees, and I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen reinstatement ordered as a remedy in a termination matter. Yet the recent (well, Covid-recent) Deliveroo decision ruled not only that a Deliveroo worker was effectively an employee (literally no one thought they were) based on one or two seemingly minor considerations that I forget the specifics of right now, AND ordered he be reinstated.

One line, or one good argument, could see the court rule in the player's favour. That's all I've essentially been driving at. It's nothing like as simple s many fans think.

You also may find these of some interest to read -

https://www.nswrl.com.au/siteassets/documents/nswrl-standard-playing-agreement-.pdf

Agents and You

Agents and You

www.nrl.com

https://websites.mygameday.app/get_file.cgi?id=99639

Cool, I'll have a read when I have a minute, cheers dude.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Only if there's an operative instrument that allows for them to do so. Otherwise it's unlawful to withhold pay (except like I said where that pay is contingent on an action, eg match payments).

NRL players aren't covered by an award or agreement, and I think we can all agree no manager is going to agree to a contract that allows payment to be withheld.


Yep, which has been my point, as I said. The club could apply for an injunction, and the matter is then in the hands of the courts. My point is then also that once it's there, it's not anything like as simple as "this contract is ironclad, cub wins!".

As an example, gig-economy workers have not ever been considered employees, and I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen reinstatement ordered as a remedy in a termination matter. Yet the recent (well, Covid-recent) Deliveroo decision ruled not only that a Deliveroo worker was effectively an employee (literally no one thought they were) based on one or two seemingly minor considerations that I forget the specifics of right now, AND ordered he be reinstated.

One line, or one good argument, could see the court rule in the player's favour. That's all I've essentially been driving at. It's nothing like as simple s many fans think.



Cool, I'll have a read when I have a minute, cheers dude.

IIRC, there was in NSW. They had a conditions award. I believe it is now subsumed in the NRL-RLPA Collective Bargaining Agreement. This was the basic info from the RLPA's website about it in March 2017 - https://www.rlpa.com.au/the-cba-explained/

This, from the same site, explained what the outcome was - https://www.rlpa.com.au/infographic-collective-bargaining-agreement-2018-2022/

 

[MKCS]

Roger Tuivasa-Sheck apparently been offered a contract by the Roosters to return to NRL. Source is the Daily Telegraph.

Has been a rumour for a little while and doesn't make much sense in my opinion.

 

[Tiger5150]

Roger Tuivasa-Sheck apparently been offered a contract by the Roosters to return to NRL. Source is the Daily Telegraph.

Has been a rumour for a little while and doesn't make much sense in my opinion.

makes total sense. You know that if the Roosters dont get them, another club might!> Gotta catch em all

 

[GongPanther]

Hunt would look good in a Panthers jersey.

 

[Wb1234]

Rts to return to league with the roosters

 

[Colk]

Roger Tuivasa-Sheck apparently been offered a contract by the Roosters to return to NRL. Source is the Daily Telegraph.

Has been a rumour for a little while and doesn't make much sense in my opinion.

The sombrero strikes again

 

[Valheru]

The sombrero strikes again

Except it is completely made up and not true

Roosters’ response to RTS links as two NRL rivals tipped to enter bidding war: Transfer Whispers

Roosters’ response to RTS links as two NRL rivals tipped to enter bidding war: Transfer Whispers

www.foxsports.com.au

Put this one int he same pile as Payne Haas and every other player that is on the market.

 

[MugaB]

Except it is completely made up and not true

Roosters’ response to RTS links as two NRL rivals tipped to enter bidding war: Transfer Whispers

Roosters’ response to RTS links as two NRL rivals tipped to enter bidding war: Transfer Whispers

www.foxsports.com.au

Put this one int he same pile as Payne Haas and every other player that is on the market.

Yeah fletch and hindy grilled haas on that one...
He didn't say no tho...
I dare say it might be out of context.. RTS is probably looking to sign with a club in Sydney... not Sydney Roosters... unless teddys decided to return to concord for some unfathomable reason.. even then surely Manu or Su'alii slots in... RTS should return to captain the warriors, they were doing well before he departed

 

[Captain Apollo]

Roger Tuivasa-Sheck apparently been offered a contract by the Roosters to return to NRL. Source is the Daily Telegraph.

Has been a rumour for a little while and doesn't make much sense in my opinion.

Actually the DT is not the source. It was mentioned by All Black legend Sir John Kirwan during a televised/streamed show for Nine/Stan - https://wwos.nine.com.au/rugby/news...l-return/2b626d4c-549d-457e-a118-740f741e3341

Also Brent Read said on NRL 360 last night the Roosters have distanced themselves from the claim by saying why would they want another fullback when they already have 4 who can play there on its books? - https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...s/news-story/acfff589b2af32c6f7aa9e948c0297bd

 

[Valheru]

Yeah fletch and hindy grilled haas on that one...
He didn't say no tho...
I dare say it might be out of context.. RTS is probably looking to sign with a club in Sydney... not Sydney Roosters... unless teddys decided to return to concord for some unfathomable reason.. even then surely Manu or Su'alii slots in... RTS should return to captain the warriors, they were doing well before he departed

Wasn't one of the reasons he went to rugby was so that he could live in NZ?

You would think now that the warriors are returning home full time that would be the best fit for him.

 

[MugaB]

Wasn't one of the reasons he went to rugby was so that he could live in NZ?

You would think now that the warriors are returning home full time that would be the best fit for him.

CNK can play in the centres too, RTS in at fullback... lets gone warriors