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If perth is such a can't miss home run for nrl expansion..?!

Perth Red

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If you took off ur tin foil 1997 Perth reds supporters beer holder cap & stopped imbibing in the alcohol u might realize redcliffe was chosen for expansion because they as rich as f...
Other bids had nice logos & fancy concepts but no real money.
Expanding game is commendable but NRL looking for just one ingredient
Have you seen easts accounts? I’m suspecting not.
 
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12,411
Th

Theyre just better at negotiating. For example not only did they get WA govt to pay massively for the grand final they also got them to commit $5million to fund jnr programs in WA for 5 years. That’s how you do it!
Brisbane Roar are the soccer the club.

The Gold Coast Suns AFL club were given a great deal at Carrara.

The Queensland gov doesn't do RL many favours.
 
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12,411
Sounds like titans when first came into league
David Gallop didn't vet Michael Searle's bid properly when he awarded the 16th licence to the Titans. The club chalked up $35m of debt under Searle within their first five years, with much of it hidden. I hope the ARLC keep a close eye on all clubs and future bids to make sure we never have another Michael Searle involved in the game.

Nathan Tinker's foray at the Knights set expansion back.

The most frustrating thing is all of this could have been avoided if the governing body invested in expansion teams and kept a close eye on their operations until the right people were in place to steer them forward.
 
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Canard

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34,147
According to this article the Suns were also paying $2M annually to rent Carrara. This article is undated but I assume was around the time of the Titans issue


I also see in a pay walled article that the Brisbane Roar and Suns are in a dispute over unpaid rent. (I can't open it)


It raises an interesting point though, Governments are being asked to build stadiums that cost the Taxpayer $100s of millions, how is there build and WOL costs going to be met?

Reducing the rent to teams only means the taxpayer is footing the bill.
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
21,765
According to this article the Suns were also paying $2M annually to rent Carrara. This article is undated but I assume was around the time of the Titans issue


I also see in a pay walled article that the Brisbane Roar and Suns are in a dispute over unpaid rent. (I can't open it)


It raises an interesting point though, Governments are being asked to build stadiums that cost the Taxpayer $100s of millions, how is there build and WOL costs going to be met?

Reducing the rent to teams only means the taxpayer is footing the bill.
Broncos get slugged at Suncorp
But with their crowds they don’t care

suns have a sweet stadium deal they own the management rights to the stadium
 

Iamback

Coach
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16,988
I suspect you really don’t know the running costs of an nrl club lol

ideally we are looking at 20k plus membership and 15k plus active attending fans to realise a return enough to cover off the fanbase revenue needed for a club to thrive independent of pokies or owner spend.

if we look at cowboys in 2021 as an example of what perth should be aiming to match or better (crowd avg 13.5k):

merch sales $1.3mill
memberships $3mill
gate takings and game day sales $5.9mill
Sponsorship $9mill

if we can achieve that the club will be in a very healthy financial position regardless of owners wealth.

Doesn't HBF park have any ground members?
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
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65,411
According to this article the Suns were also paying $2M annually to rent Carrara. This article is undated but I assume was around the time of the Titans issue


I also see in a pay walled article that the Brisbane Roar and Suns are in a dispute over unpaid rent. (I can't open it)


It raises an interesting point though, Governments are being asked to build stadiums that cost the Taxpayer $100s of millions, how is there build and WOL costs going to be met?

Reducing the rent to teams only means the taxpayer is footing the bill.
Govt's dont build stadiums to get a financial return from rent. They build them to enhance the city and attract sports tourists and events that promote the city. Qlnd does seem to want to try and stiff tenants to cover costs as much as possible compared to other states it seems. There's no benefit to the State Govt if the rent it charges makes a club unviable. There has to be a balance.
 

Canard

Immortal
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34,147
Govt's dont build stadiums to get a financial return from rent. They build them to enhance the city and attract sports tourists and events that promote the city. Qlnd does seem to want to try and stiff tenants to cover costs as much as possible compared to other states it seems. There's no benefit to the State Govt if the rent it charges makes a club unviable. There has to be a balance.

I'm talking about whole of life costs (maintenance, upkeep, etc.), not about making a profit.

Agreed there needs to be an equitable balance for the rent. Ultimately, it will just be the taxpayer footing the bill if the clubs get off the hook totally.

Out of interest, who gets the revenue from beer pourage, food sales etc.? The clubs, the govt or someone else? And what are the Sydney clubs paying for the SFS and Western Sydney Stadium?
 

Iamback

Coach
Messages
16,988
I'm talking about whole of life costs (maintenance, upkeep, etc.), not about making a profit.

Agreed there needs to be an equitable balance for the rent. Ultimately, it will just be the taxpayer footing the bill if the clubs get off the hook totally.

Out of interest, who gets the revenue from beer pourage, food sales etc.? The clubs, the govt or someone else? And what are the Sydney clubs paying for the SFS and Western Sydney Stadium?

Some clubs run their own Stadiums, They could pass some costs to the renter in return for cheaper rent
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
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65,411
Still to get a sell out every week to get the 20k is a push, Surely the bigger games need to be at Optus to cover the high overheads at HBF
depends. for first few years I think HBF park will be fine. I expect around a 15-16k attendance avg with 2-3 games selling out each season. Form permitting.
I might be over or underestimating fans here but I think that's probably likely, and tbf is fine. A 15k plus avg would put the NRl club at third best supported club in Perth which is the spot that it should be. Seat scarcity might also drive full membership take up, which isnt a bad thing.

Problem with Optus is size and cost. 25k in there will be shite and the cost of hiring it probably doesnt justify the 5k extra tickets sold. One way to use Optus might be to stage a double header every year with Govt and NRL support. That would see likely numbers push up to 30k or so.
 
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Perth Red

Post Whore
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65,411
I'm talking about whole of life costs (maintenance, upkeep, etc.), not about making a profit.

Agreed there needs to be an equitable balance for the rent. Ultimately, it will just be the taxpayer footing the bill if the clubs get off the hook totally.

Out of interest, who gets the revenue from beer pourage, food sales etc.? The clubs, the govt or someone else? And what are the Sydney clubs paying for the SFS and Western Sydney Stadium?
Its a good question and I think varies depending on type of deal. Some clubs get a % share of food and drink but pay higher rent, those that pay less rent give up on the other revenue. SMC's and clubs keep stadium deals very close to their chest so its impossible to say whose paying what. I think I worked out from Broncos financials they pay about $400k a game for Suncorp but no idea waht the get back in terms of food and drink share etc. I know HBF Park hire varies between $80k-125k depending on expected crowd size. But again what that detail is is anyone's guess.
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
21,765
I'm talking about whole of life costs (maintenance, upkeep, etc.), not about making a profit.

Agreed there needs to be an equitable balance for the rent. Ultimately, it will just be the taxpayer footing the bill if the clubs get off the hook totally.

Out of interest, who gets the revenue from beer pourage, food sales etc.? The clubs, the govt or someone else? And what are the Sydney clubs paying for the SFS and Western Sydney Stadium?
Govt sells off the shops to operators who pay them rent

except Metricon afl got the management rights

govts also get naming rights

when you factor in jobs created during construction they end up making money for the govt
 

Pippen94

First Grade
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5,858
depends. for first few years I think HBF park will be fine. I expect around a 15-16k attendance avg with 2-3 games selling out each season. Form permitting.
I might be over or underestimating fans here but I think that's probably likely, and tbf is fine. A 15k plus avg would put the NRl club at third best supported club in Perth which is the spot that it should be. Seat scarcity might also drive full membership take up, which isnt a bad thing.

Problem with Optus is size and cost. 25k in there will be shite and the cost of hiring it probably doesnt justify the 5k extra tickets sold. One way to use Optus might be to stage a double header every year with Govt and NRL support. That would see likely numbers push up to 30k or so.

Lol
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
34,147
Some clubs run their own Stadiums, They could pass some costs to the renter in return for cheaper rent
Its a good question and I think varies depending on type of deal. Some clubs get a % share of food and drink but pay higher rent, those that pay less rent give up on the other revenue. SMC's and clubs keep stadium deals very close to their chest so its impossible to say whose paying what. I think I worked out from Broncos financials they pay about $400k a game for Suncorp but no idea waht the get back in terms of food and drink share etc. I know HBF Park hire varies between $80k-125k depending on expected crowd size. But again what that detail is is anyone's guess.
Govt sells off the shops to operators who pay them rent

except Metricon afl got the management rights

govts also get naming rights

when you factor in jobs created during construction they end up making money for the govt

I'm talking specifically about the new stadia though, like SFS and Western Sydney.

Those are really the only compareable ones to Lang Park, Robina and Townsville.

I would hope that, for example, the Tigers pay f**k all to play at Leichardt (and should be getting paid to play there to be frank).
 

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