Around the Grounds

[SamSepi0l]

I don't think he has massive holes in his game to be honest. I think the issue is we dumped 1.x million into the fullback spot and expected that to single-handedly make us a premiership threat. Fullbacks are usually a 1b spot. You need the elite 6/7.
Penrith it was Cleary leading, not Edwards.
Storm Papenhuyzen is the most replaceable of the spine.
Sharks Kennedy is having a great year but is kinda average normally.
Broncos needed Reynolds etc etc.

The problem is we invested early in a player without support. We have one of the worst packs in the comp. We have no halves and a makeshift 9. Again, what are we expecting and can you point to anyone else who has done that *ALONE* from fullback.

 

[perverse]

I don't think he has massive holes in his game to be honest. I think the issue is we dumped 1.x million into the fullback spot and expected that to single-handedly make us a premiership threat. Fullbacks are usually a 1b spot. You need the elite 6/7.
Penrith it was Cleary leading, not Edwards.
Storm Papenhuyzen is the most replaceable of the spine.
Sharks Kennedy is having a great year but is kinda average normally.
Broncos needed Reynolds etc etc.

The problem is we invested early in a player without support. We have one of the worst packs in the comp. We have no halves and a makeshift 9. Again, what are we expecting and can you point to anyone else who has done that *ALONE* from fullback.

We also made a monumental f**k up making him captain. Most of us called that straight away at the time, and he has struggled with the responsibility since.

 

[Knight Tales]

Dylan Lucas should be our Captain.

 

[The Axe of Druss]

In a vacuum if you minus KP and replace him with no one, sure, definitely worse.

If Sharpe is playing fullback you don't lose *that* much. Purely from a speed of play and intent perspective it's an upgrade.

Then if the stars align and you take KPs $1.5m and spend 750k on a halfback (who doesn't even need to be that good, but preferably with a huge boot), 750k on a prop and play Brown at 6 (where he should be) you can't convince me we are not a better side.



Go watch the 2023 semi win at home against the Raiders, you can't say it's all KP. A huge chunk of us winning that game is Gamblor and Dom.

A lot of what ifs and hypotheticals here, not much based on facts especially the part where we magically get a halfback and a prop for KPs money.

Hes easily our best player and we are lesser without him. Arguing we could spend his money on other quality players is pointless if they a) dont exist and b) are entrenched in teams regularly making the top 8

 

[mozza91]

Look at us having multiple good players to argue about. Remember when Nathan Ross was our only highlight?

 

[HarVeeGee]

I don't think he has massive holes in his game to be honest.

- Would be close to the worst support player out of all starting fullbacks in the NRL. It goes beyond just not putting himself in the frame - he’ll run to weird spots when he actually does make the effort, like when he somehow conspired to run directly into Sharpe the other night.
- Contributes almost nothing as an attacking player through the middle third; has consistently needed to “pick his spots” down the tramlines to be an effective attacking player.
- Can’t/shouldn’t make tough carries, which increases the workload of outside backs etc.
- In this mooted “hybrid half” role this year, he plays too slow, doesn’t engage the line well, looks for the home run play far too often, and doesn’t seem to be very good at communicating his intent to his teammates consistently.
- Defensive speed bump, which means he can’t play his preferred position of five eighth.
- Takes soft options often (eg falls on his back after taking a catch rather than fighting for a few metres, giving up a slow play the ball & making the subsequent yardage carry much harder) which reek of self-preservation.
- Has a lot of bad habits in yardage for a player who’s supposed to be steering us around, eg loitering behind the play the ball for no reason and putting himself out of play.

He’s very much a player with massive holes in his game. He’s way more of a Latrell than a Tedesco. It’s just the stuff he’s good at, he’s very possibly the best at, and when you get that stuff going, he looks like the best player in the world.

And when that stuff’s not happening, or they’re trying to expand his game beyond the stuff he’s good at and it doesn’t work, he looks awful.

He doesn’t have a solid base of effective positional play to fall back on the way someone like Tedesco, or Papenhyuzen, or Edwards etc does.

 

[HarVeeGee]

Feel free to refute any specific points Druss. Not the only one who thinks this way. Looking forward to the explanation for how tackling your own teammate is actually great footy.

 

[The Axe of Druss]

- Would be close to the worst support player out of all starting fullbacks in the NRL. It goes beyond just not putting himself in the frame - he’ll run to weird spots when he actually does make the effort, like when he somehow conspired to run directly into Sharpe the other night.
- Contributes almost nothing as an attacking player through the middle third; has consistently needed to “pick his spots” down the tramlines to be an effective attacking player.
- Can’t/shouldn’t make tough carries, which increases the workload of outside backs etc.
- In this mooted “hybrid half” role this year, he plays too slow, doesn’t engage the line well, looks for the home run play far too often, and doesn’t seem to be very good at communicating his intent to his teammates consistently.
- Defensive speed bump, which means he can’t play his preferred position of five eighth.
- Takes soft options often (eg falls on his back after taking a catch rather than fighting for a few metres, giving up a slow play the ball & making the subsequent yardage carry much harder) which reek of self-preservation.
- Has a lot of bad habits in yardage for a player who’s supposed to be steering us around, eg loitering behind the play the ball for no reason and putting himself out of play.

He’s very much a player with massive holes in his game. He’s way more of a Latrell than a Tedesco. It’s just the stuff he’s good at, he’s very possibly the best at, and when you get that stuff going, he looks like the best player in the world.

And when that stuff’s not happening, or they’re trying to expand his game beyond the stuff he’s good at and it doesn’t work, he looks awful.

He doesn’t have a solid base of effective positional play to fall back on the way someone like Tedesco, or Papenhyuzen, or Edwards etc does.

Just watching the 2024 highlights available on YouTube, I can find counters to every example of the "holes" in Kaylns game you've listed. Its so laughable its barely worth any more effort than that

He's not perfect by any stretch but jeezus your reasoning reeks of confirmation bias

 

[The Axe of Druss]

Feel free to refute any specific points Druss. Not the only one who thinks this way. Looking forward to the explanation for how tackling your own teammate is actually great footy.

Its not great footy. Its also a one off accident thats never likely to happen again so I really dont get your reasoning for singling that out aside from reaching for a negative in any place you can.

 

[HarVeeGee]

Just watching the 2024 highlights available on YouTube, I can find counters to every example of the "holes" in Kaylns game you've listed. Its so laughable its barely worth any more effort than that

He's not perfect by any stretch but jeezus your reasoning reeks of confirmation bias

Oh damn do highlights exclude all the bad stuff that players do? Damn that sucks for me, I was really relying on his highlight reel being a supercut of surrender tackles and bad decisions.

 

[The Axe of Druss]

Oh damn do highlights exclude all the bad stuff that players do? Damn that sucks for me, I was really relying on his highlight reel being a supercut of surrender tackles and bad decisions.

Oh so you're relying on your memory and perception of things from the past instead of facts and evidence.

Good to know

 

[HarVeeGee]

To be clear:

If Fletcher Sharpe didn't exist, I would agree it's insane to think about moving Ponga on. It's almost like he's had us over a barrel for years due to this crippling absence of other elite players.

But now we've got Sharpe. Fletcher's potential is through the roof. His feel for the fullback position is about as good as it gets, and he has genuinely elite physical tools for the spot to boot. Playing five-eighth to accommodate a guy who wants to basically play half but can't tackle, we have to seriously question whether that's the best thing for Fletcher, and whether Kalyn is really the guy you prioritise here. It could take him years to really get to grips with playing in the halves. He's already great at fullback. This is a guy for whom the NSW Blues 1 jersey beckons in his future. Playing 6 will make rep footy less likely for him, it just will. And what if he never takes to playing in the halves? How many years of this kid's career would we be burning on a bad idea here?

Make no mistake, this is a tenuous position the club is in right now - just yesterday we have his management reposting a quote from RL Guru about how the best thing for the Knights is for Sharpe to be the long term fullback. That's not great!

And with constant rumours about Kalyn not being sure if he can win a comp with us & maybe wanting out - maybe the most smoke we've heard on this front yet atm... I don't know. Should the club really keep desperately clinging on to him? To what end? To keep bending the roster into weird shapes in a desperate attempt to finish 7th rather than 10th every season? What's the point?

Can we win a comp while he's in his prime? I think it's extremely unlikely. So where does that leave Kalyn? How will he feel about his career by the end?

Kalyn reignited my love for the sport in a big way in 2018, and I'm not saying I want to push the bloke into a woodchipper and I'd be ecstatic to see the back of him. I'd be sad to see him go. I'd be happy for him if he won the comp elsewhere and annoyed by how badly we fumbled his career.

But I would be gutted, truly devastated, if we doubled down and repeated the mistake with Fletcher Sharpe & his career.

 

[The Axe of Druss]

1. Cleary
2. Ponga
3. Haas
4. Carrigan
5. Munster
6. Fisher-Harris
7. DCE
8. Grant
9. To’o
10. Tommy Turbo

For me, these are the ten best players in the comp right now. All guys who bring physical dominance & ability to win field position, a proven ability to consistently be the difference in tight games, or a combination of both traits. Any of them would add heaps to our side if we had them in addition to Ponga, probably makes us top four. It’s not even debateable. The one side which has multiple top ten players which doesn’t make the top four routinely, it’s because Tommy T gets injured all the time (and also they have a lot of weaknesses due to having like 9 players on huge money and 8 reserve graders every game).

You've certainly changed your tune matey. From 2nd best player in the NRL to a guy who can only play in the tramtracks, cant tackle and makes no effort on kick returns

 

[HarVeeGee]

Scales have fallen from my eyes a bit mate yeah. Almost like when the evidence in front of me is different, I reach a different conclusion. Wouldn’t have Tommy Turbo up there anymore either. Carrigan hasn’t been great this year despite his stats, there’s some empty calories in there, wouldn’t have him top ten atm either.

You’re seriously going to tell me Kalyn runs the ball back with intent & doesn’t fall on his arse with no one anywhere near him when catching kicks? Is that a serious take from you?

 

[Yosh]

Take that Penrith game out, fine. Lucas has 11 tries in 34 games, a terrific strike rate for a back rower, and consistently pumps out over 130 metres and 40 tackles. He breaks tackles. He saves tries. He's doing it all in a side which has been at best average, and often terrible. He's a sensational footballer, elite in two positions, and there's a real case that he's the best edge forward in the NRL right now.

But sure, I didn't even notice he was good until the Penrith game, I guess because I'm a moron.


There's no difference in our W/L ratio with and without Kalyn. You can point to whatever you like with this, but there's no other player of his stature in the game where the impact of him actually playing or not is this negligible.

I just straight up do not accept "everything good we've done... has come off the back of that man". I just think that's a fundamental misattribution and a big part of our problem as a club. Even going back to last year when we beat the Dolphins 14-6 and set up both tries, and the narrative was "all their attack is Ponga"... that's an incredible team performance to hold the Dolphins to 6 that the team as a whole gets zero credit for, though, which is f**ked up. The 6 is why we won, not the 14.

I think it's more of a coaching thing. If our win % without him is 40%, then it should be 60% with him. We can't seem to get the best out of him.

 

[The Axe of Druss]

Scales have fallen from my eyes a bit mate yeah. Almost like when the evidence in front of me is different, I reach a different conclusion. Wouldn’t have Tommy Turbo up there anymore either. Carrigan hasn’t been great this year despite his stats, there’s some empty calories in there, wouldn’t have him top ten atm either.

You’re seriously going to tell me Kalyn runs the ball back with intent & doesn’t fall on his arse with no one anywhere near him when catching kicks? Is that a serious take from you?

Never said he didn't, its in his game occasionally

Im also not going to pretend he never runs it hard or takes a difficult catch in the air putting himself in a tough position either. Nuance is funny like that

 

[Yosh]

Also, it's much easier to be a gun fullback at 20 years old than a gun halfback at 20. Sharpe might turn into a gun half in 4-5 years time.

We have massive talent in the spine but they definitely don't work well together. We need some more crafty attack out of dummy half and a better kicking game from one of our halves.

Against Penrith, we were so quick in attack. Maybe because we weren't so busy trying to get awkwardly into attacking shape to bring Ponga into the play. Maybe stick to that game plan? Suits us much better.

 

[slotmachine]

Can we win a comp while he's in his prime? I think it's extremely unlikely.

Yeah given the way POS is approaching recruitment it's definitely not "win now".
I think the next time we are good, as in finish top 4, KP isn't here.

 

[HarVeeGee]

Never said he didn't, its in his game occasionally

Im also not going to pretend he never runs it hard or takes a difficult catch in the air putting himself in a tough position either. Nuance is funny like that

Plenty of nuance in my takes. I’m the most nuanced takesman.

I didn’t say he was a shit player. He’s obviously a great player. But he’s a great player with downsides which more resemble Latrell Mitchell’s negatives - and Latrell, obviously, is a sensational player on his day, but there is a lot of other stuff which needs to go right to get the best out of him - than say Tedesco’s negatives.

 

[SamSepi0l]

Make no mistake, this is a tenuous position the club is in right now - just yesterday we have his management reposting a quote from RL Guru about how the best thing for the Knights is for Sharpe to be the long term fullback. That's not great!

The most damning thing here is that his management interacts with that guy.