Rumoured Targets 3

[HarVeeGee]

I reckon of all the spine positions you can economise on if you need to, hooker is #1, followed by five-eighth. What amazing, dynamic hooking skills do Mitch Kenny and Billy Walters have?

The one that is hardest to do without is an elite 7, but they don't grow on trees. There's at least some precedent for an okay halfback and elite 6 duo winning a comp, though it's not common.

Either way it's f**king hard to have four elite spine players and not sustainable, I do believe you need to just find someone who can just do a job in at least one spot and be okay with that. Two properly elite spine players, one good one, one competent one, is the recipe IMO. Otherwise you have to economise too much elsewhere and we're seeing with Melbourne where that gets you: if one of them is out there are too many weaknesses elsewhere, and they've never defended as well as the Big Three Storm sides. If I were them I'd try to get Tino back and be prepared to let Munster walk once they secure that. It'd be a better balanced side if they did that.

 

[The Axe of Druss]

Melb never miss the 8 and rarely miss the top 4. I think what they do works tbh

 

[HarVeeGee]

It works because they're always in the frame, but they've lost enough finals now due to their forwards being smashed where it's valid to question whether they'd actually be even better if they restructured their team a little bit.

It's a champagne problem, not a real problem, but they've pretty consistently been better at smashing bad sides than ever before, but not as good as they used to be against other great sides. That side they had that made the grand final last year, just an opinion, but I reckon the 2023 edition of the Broncos beat them pretty comfortably.

To get back on topic: Sandon Smith has more games against men at halfback than any other player we have, to the tune of about 40 games. He's gone pretty good in first grade and is 22 so still plenty of scope to grow and improve. Just seems like a no brainer to play the guy who's played most of his footy at halfback at... halfback, and see if he can blossom from "capable" to "good" there.

A stable environment, with elite attacking talent at 6 and 1 for him to play to, and a hooker who can get him clean ball for 80 minutes, gives us the best chance of that happening. Even if the hooker is simply capable & reliable rather than dynamic.

I'm not sure why this is better than moving a halfback to hooker, a five-eighth to halfback and a fullback to five-eighth, so that we can have an 88kg lock forward. But I guess I'm not the recruitment genius am I?

 

[League guru]

I assume he means ruck manipulation and recognition of when to run/pass and keeping the markers accountable etc.

Ruck manipulation, I haven't heard that one before. At the end of the day it's a pretty simple game. Throw a decent pass and take the occasional run. They expect them all to be Cameron Smith, a one off and a genuine GOAT.

 

[The Axe of Druss]

Ruck manipulation, I haven't heard that one before. At the end of the day it's a pretty simple game. Throw a decent pass and take the occasional run. They expect them all to be Cameron Smith, a one off and a genuine GOAT.

If it was that easy then every team would have a 1000 good hookers

 

[Mr_Knightside]

Ruck manipulation, I haven't heard that one before. At the end of the day it's a pretty simple game. Throw a decent pass and take the occasional run. They expect them all to be Cameron Smith, a one off and a genuine GOAT.

Yeah ruck manipulation, keeping markers accountable etc. A lot of the good hookers can do it. Have a look at what Api does for example. Getting the markers in two minds so they don’t know whether the ball is going to the first runner, second runner or a guy out the back, or is Api going to run himself? Also getting his forwards running into space behind the ruck.

Cam Smith was always credited for making his forwards look better than they were because he would deliver the ball on a platter with space in front of them to run into.

I’m not saying we need a hooker as good as that, but it would be nice to have one that does a bit more than have an ok passing game and runs from dummy half twice a game, which is what we currently get with Phoenix. Currently the strongest part of his game is his defence, but he can deliver that at 9 or 13 so I’m comfortable with him going to 13 on a more permanent basis if we can get a 9 who provides bigger impact.

 

[Mr_Knightside]

I’m also surprised that someone who’s alias is League Guru doesn’t understand what ruck manipulation is…

 

[Knight Tales]

Would you rather have four highly skilled and mobile players in a spine or a shite hooker and two past it and very slow halves like this year? Be thankful we have the headache to solve.

 

[HarVeeGee]

Yeah ruck manipulation, keeping markers accountable etc. A lot of the good hookers can do it. Have a look at what Api does for example. Getting the markers in two minds so they don’t know whether the ball is going to the first runner, second runner or a guy out the back, or is Api going to run himself? Also getting his forwards running into space behind the ruck.

Cam Smith was always credited for making his forwards look better than they were because he would deliver the ball on a platter with space in front of them to run into.

I’m not saying we need a hooker as good as that, but it would be nice to have one that does a bit more than have an ok passing game and runs from dummy half twice a game, which is what we currently get with Phoenix. Currently the strongest part of his game is his defence, but he can deliver that at 9 or 13 so I’m comfortable with him going to 13 on a more permanent basis if we can get a 9 who provides bigger impact.

Don’t disagree with any of this but also the two most prolific attacking teams in 2023 had Billy Walters and Phoenix Crossland as their starting hookers. The Panthers actually scored more points in 2023 with Mitch Kenny than they did in 2022 with Api playing most hooker minutes. You can absolutely build a functional attack with someone who just does the basics well and the most important non-negotiable traits for a 9 are fitness, defence, and consistency of delivery from dummy half.

There are also a lot of “good” hookers who do a lot of fiddly shit around the ruck which is a handbrake as often as it helps. Or who can be slick for 30 minutes and then a handbrake once they get gassed. As far as I can see the Phoenix of minute 5 is pretty similar to the Phoenix of minute 75.

I dunno maybe Sandon’s slick 25 minutes of dummy half work for the Roosters will translate to a great big minute hooker in the NRL after one pre-season. I’d be shocked though and I think it’ll be 50 of him and 30 of one of the kids everyone in here thinks is not ready for first grade. $500K is a lot for a 50 minute hooker. It’s great value for a halfback who’s even competent.

But yes, good problem to have that we’re picking between fast, skilful spine players like Ponga, Brown, Sharpe, Smith & Arthur and a wholehearted competitor and defensive stud like Phoenix for those spots. As opposed to picking between NSW Cup players like Cogger/Gamble and broken down plodders like Jacko/Brailey (I really really like Jayden, seemed like a great team man, real high character guy. Unfortunately injuries absolutely f**ked him).

 

[Apey]

No idea what Raiders will end up doing with Brailey. Guess he's an upgrade on Levi who they still have on the books, lol.

 

[HarVeeGee]

That signing didn’t make a lot of sense to me, for either party.

 

[Mr_Knightside]

Don’t disagree with any of this but also the two most prolific attacking teams in 2023 had Billy Walters and Phoenix Crossland as their starting hookers. The Panthers actually scored more points in 2023 with Mitch Kenny than they did in 2022 with Api playing most hooker minutes. You can absolutely build a functional attack with someone who just does the basics well and the most important non-negotiable traits for a 9 are fitness, defence, and consistency of delivery from dummy half.

There are also a lot of “good” hookers who do a lot of fiddly shit around the ruck which is a handbrake as often as it helps. Or who can be slick for 30 minutes and then a handbrake once they get gassed. As far as I can see the Phoenix of minute 5 is pretty similar to the Phoenix of minute 75.

I dunno maybe Sandon’s slick 25 minutes of dummy half work for the Roosters will translate to a great big minute hooker in the NRL after one pre-season. I’d be shocked though and I think it’ll be 50 of him and 30 of one of the kids everyone in here thinks is not ready for first grade. $500K is a lot for a 50 minute hooker. It’s great value for a halfback who’s even competent.

But yes, good problem to have that we’re picking between fast, skilful spine players like Ponga, Brown, Sharpe, Smith & Arthur and a wholehearted competitor and defensive stud like Phoenix for those spots. As opposed to picking between NSW Cup players like Cogger/Gamble and broken down plodders like Jacko/Brailey (I really really like Jayden, seemed like a great team man, real high character guy. Unfortunately injuries absolutely f**ked him).

You make some fair points here. Although I think the big difference is that Brisbane and Penrith have much better forward packs than we do and don’t necessarily need a highly skilled hooker to help them get over the advantage line.

Our forward pack for next year has more depth than this year but will still probably be one of the weakest in the competition, so having a hooker who can get something going from dummy half and create space for our forwards to run into would be more valuable to us than say Penrith/Broncos who have a bunch of metre eaters punching holes in the opposition’s middle for 80 mins.

If we play Sandon at 9 I expect he’ll want to run a fair bit which I really want to see, and if he does that then that creates space around him and also should get us more ruck speed on the next play.

 

[HarVeeGee]

You’re not wrong, but I’m optimistic about the kind of pack we will have as young blokes develop. And I’m suspecting that there will be issues with how well the team works its way down the field with Brown & Sharpe in the halves, which won’t be as big of an issue if we play with two genuine halves.

Also think we switched gears to Crossland at 13 because of a realisation of these issues with Sharpe in the halves and Ponga sort of overextending to play as a half/fullback hybrid. Like knocking two legs off a table and fixing it by putting legs in new places to create a precarious balance. I dunno could just put the legs back and make it a normal table again.

Sort of creates a situation where the 13 is like a 5th spine member too, which is fine and dandy unless he gets injured. I’m not sure we have anyone else who can do that role.

 

[Yosh]

I don't think Crossland is a starting 9 or 13 in a top 4 side. Perfect 14. Comes on to play lock when the games opened up a little and offers some more speed around the ruck. Jumps into hooker if needed. Would still want a recognized proper 9 to play 65-70 minutes a game for us. Use a proper forward like Frizz to start at 13.

 

[Burwood]

Crossland would be a great lock in a side that has decent go forward.

 

[League guru]

I’m also surprised that someone who’s alias is League Guru doesn’t understand what ruck manipulation.

What I do know is that Newcastle are a basket case who will attract no one unless they pay twice their market value. I can't believe that they have no space in the salary cap when they have no players of any note. Besides the freight payed to Ponga where does the money go?
"Ruck Manipulation" is the last of your worries, when your inadequate management keeps paying overs for reserve graders with little talent.

 

[perverse]

I don't think Crossland is a starting 9 or 13 in a top 4 side. Perfect 14. Comes on to play lock when the games opened up a little and offers some more speed around the ruck. Jumps into hooker if needed. Would still want a recognized proper 9 to play 65-70 minutes a game for us. Use a proper forward like Frizz to start at 13.

I'm not even sure he's in the Top 17 of a Top 4 side. I'm very hot and cold on him. He's so, so limited as a player. Stands out in a shit team because of his work ethic. Incredibly untalented and frustrating to watch in other areas though, and always has been.

He's certainly a testament to how far hard work can carry you, though.

 

[HarVeeGee]

He was the starting hooker in a side that was three missed shots at goal away from finishing 3rd...

Look I'm not saying that if Harry Grant called us and told us of his burning desire to play for the Knights, we should say no. I'm just looking at the players we've got and thinking about what sets us up best. If you think Phoenix being at 9 presented more issues for the attack than Fletcher Sharpe and Kalyn Ponga did trying to alternate as the key ball players on the first layer of our shape work, I honestly wonder if we watched the same games this year.

I, personally, would love to see if we could just get an *okay* attack out of the competent 80 minute hooker + guy we've just signed who's proven himself capable at 7 + the dynamic ball running 6 + the dynamic fullback we have on the books, before we move on to the Extra Hard Mode of team construction of having *four spine players trying to learn how to play new positions on the fly*.

 

[The Axe of Druss]

What I do know is that Newcastle are a basket case who will attract no one unless they pay twice their market value. I can't believe that they have no space in the salary cap when they have no players of any note. Besides the freight payed to Ponga where does the money go?
"Ruck Manipulation" is the last of your worries, when your inadequate management keeps paying overs for reserve graders with little talent.

What's with all the f wit fans of other clubs setting up camp in our forum lately

Jog on douchbag

 

[alexwilliams_66692007]