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New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
45,183
I think he's performances masked what was an average side that had no real plan on how they wanted to play.
Kinda looks like Webby is just adopting the Panthers style without the tools to complete the project.
That's the only reason for not having TMM at half the entire year.

For Warriors fans, at the start of next year, you want to see hard decisions being made and a clear direction of how they want to play.. Tanah Boyd and DWZ need to be moved on . TMM 7 Metcalf 6, Tuapici Fullback with CNK center .
At least they'll be dangerous in attack.
Metcalf and Boyd as halves.

All the 3 letter name players moved on cht dwz rts cnk
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,792
We also usually somehow always land Brandy who despite what he claims in interviews seems to have despised his time as a Warrior and isn’t shy about sharing it.
To be fair to Brandy, I can see that period of his career having a heap of baggage - he just wanted to get the hell out of Sydney because everything was just too painful to stay... and it's understandable that influences his feelings about everything from that time, even if on a subconscious level.
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,792
I think he's performances masked what was an average side that had no real plan on how they wanted to play.
Kinda looks like Webby is just adopting the Panthers style without the tools to complete the project.
That's the only reason for not having TMM at half the entire year.

For Warriors fans, at the start of next year, you want to see hard decisions being made and a clear direction of how they want to play.. Tanah Boyd and DWZ need to be moved on . TMM 7 Metcalf 6, Tuapici Fullback with CNK center .
At least they'll be dangerous in attack.
Maybe if the Warriors want to adopt a winning style from another club, they need to look at the Raiders template instead of Penrith?
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
45,183
To be fair to Brandy, I can see that period of his career having a heap of baggage - he just wanted to get the hell out of Sydney because everything was just too painful to stay... and it's understandable that influences his feelings about everything from that time, even if on a subconscious level.
Yeh good point

He was good at the warriors from what I can remember

That whole Penrith side got blown up by his brothers death then super league
 
Messages
2,969
Maybe but it killed their crowds and it destroyed the game such that super rugby was a serious rival

Their crowds in their first year were amazing at first
The game likes to use Super League as the reason why things weren't going well in Sydney, but truth is crowds were down long before Murdoch came along.

Arko et al. had plans to merge, relocate or let die teams of no interest to them, the Broncos came along and they became an good out for them to heap their problems on to.

Wahs siding with the Super League was an interesting one though.
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
45,183
The game likes to use Super League as the reason why things weren't going well in Sydney, but truth is crowds were down long before Murdoch came along.

Arko et al. had plans to merge, relocate or let die teams of no interest to them, the Broncos came along and they became an good out for them to heap their problems on to.

Wahs siding with the Super League was an interesting one though.
No super league then Cronulla and wests would’ve died

Bears would’ve stayed at Gosford and Balmain

Perth would’ve been around for 30 years plus crushers and Gold Coast

What’s happening now is what would’ve happened in 95 if Murdoch left it alone or if Arko had let packer and Murdoch fight it out and stayed neutral

Even today with the two jv they aren’t really working and that’s 30 years on

Its 30 years the game basically did nothing

Nrl could already have sewn up Australia, nz etc and doing real stuff intentionally
 

Matua

First Grade
Messages
5,614
They’ll restructure super rugby its inevitable

Plus copy that giteau rule thing
Nah, despite the current coach pushing for that because of his pet player they wont do that. There's no player overseas that would have made a lick of difference to the outcome of the game. The coach, and fans from his franchise, think that pet player would make the difference but he wouldn't have, there are coaching issues which are the problem.

I don't think they can restructure Super until the next broadcast deal, the recently signed one has the NPC broadcast on TVNZ, a Super restructure would try to combine (well realistically Super would devour) the two which would break the deal.

At any rate my tongue was firmly in cheek, the Warriors have failed yet again to win the NRL (and if we're honest despite the table finish they were actually quite far off the pace), and my NPC team beat our biggest foe which was the bright light of my weekend (in a sports sense).

Maybe but it killed their crowds and it destroyed the game such that super rugby was a serious rival

Their crowds in their first year were amazing at first
TBH, I think there's a school of thought that could argue that Super League was a net positive for the game as it raised player salaries to the point where the comp was actually a fully professional sports league. I remember back in those days Gary Freeman discussing how they didn't get huge sums for playing and how all players had to have a job and were often reliant on win bonuses to supplement their income.

When Super Rugby was first mooted it was going to be the same style but then a rebel organisation started signing up players and the unions and Murdoch started raising the salaries so that players wouldn't need jobs.

Without Super League coming along league could have been competing with a fully pro comp as a partially pro comp.
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
45,183
Nah, despite the current coach pushing for that because of his pet player they wont do that. There's no player overseas that would have made a lick of difference to the outcome of the game. The coach, and fans from his franchise, think that pet player would make the difference but he wouldn't have, there are coaching issues which are the problem.

I don't think they can restructure Super until the next broadcast deal, the recently signed one has the NPC broadcast on TVNZ, a Super restructure would try to combine (well realistically Super would devour) the two which would break the deal.

At any rate my tongue was firmly in cheek, the Warriors have failed yet again to win the NRL (and if we're honest despite the table finish they were actually quite far off the pace), and my NPC team beat our biggest foe which was the bright light of my weekend (in a sports sense).


TBH, I think there's a school of thought that could argue that Super League was a net positive for the game as it raised player salaries to the point where the comp was actually a fully professional sports league. I remember back in those days Gary Freeman discussing how they didn't get huge sums for playing and how all players had to have a job and were often reliant on win bonuses to supplement their income.

When Super Rugby was first mooted it was going to be the same style but then a rebel organisation started signing up players and the unions and Murdoch started raising the salaries so that players wouldn't need jobs.

Without Super League coming along league could have been competing with a fully pro comp as a partially pro comp.
Game was paying around 100k for some players and it soon went to a million which was way beyond what they could afford

There was no pay tv money back then and the contract with nine was pretty small back then

Players loved it

Fox has taken coverage of the game to another level but they’ve always paid unders for the rights

Dunno if you remember but News Ltd owned 50 percent of the game for 15 years and pulled out around 100 million in dividends to fund the storm whilst other clubs were bleeding
 

taste2taste

Bench
Messages
3,151
Kinda looks like Webby is just adopting the Panthers style without the tools to complete the project.
That's the only reason for not having TMM at half the entire year.
Yes absolutely that's what Webster has done.

Warroirs have always been my 2nd favourite team, always played eyes up footy, ad lib footy. But the last 2 seasons they have been unwatchable, 5 hit ups, kick to the corner, wait for the opposition to make a mistake. Boring AF. Last season the wahs had the best completion rates. Why ? Because they passed the ball!!

Last season SJ got alot of criticism for his form but he was following the game plan. Imagine telling one of the best ever 'eyes up ' footy players to stay in a box. No wonder SJ retired a year early.

Its not just the Warriors, plenty of teams have copied the Panthers blue print. Last year's GF was high quality but also one of the least exciting I've ever seen as both teams played the same 5 hit ups, kick to the corner.

Hopefully the Raiders or Broncos win this year and teams see that you can win the comp by playing footy.
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
45,183
Yes absolutely that's what Webster has done.

Warroirs have always been my 2nd favourite team, always played eyes up footy, ad lib footy. But the last 2 seasons they have been unwatchable, 5 hit ups, kick to the corner, wait for the opposition to make a mistake. Boring AF. Last season the wahs had the best completion rates. Why ? Because they passed the ball!!

Last season SJ got alot of criticism for his form but he was following the game plan. Imagine telling one of the best ever 'eyes up ' footy players to stay in a box. No wonder SJ retired a year early.

Its not just the Warriors, plenty of teams have copied the Panthers blue print. Last year's GF was high quality but also one of the least exciting I've ever seen as both teams played the same 5 hit ups, kick to the corner.

Hopefully the Raiders or Broncos win this year and teams see that you can win the comp by playing footy.
I like how they can grind it’s their best feature. They won a lot of games this year the warriors would normally lose

They are one of the best teams to cart the ball down the field

They just don’t have the players capable of taking advantage of it when they get down there other then meltcalf and Egan

Webster plays favourites dunno if he will be able to get rid of them fast either
 

Matua

First Grade
Messages
5,614
I like how they can grind it’s their best feature. They won a lot of games this year the warriors would normally lose

They are one of the best teams to cart the ball down the field

They just don’t have the players capable of taking advantage of it when they get down there other then meltcalf and Egan

Webster plays favourites dunno if he will be able to get rid of them fast either
Yeah, the grind was good. Although the simple fact is that without Leka we only just make the 8 (or worse don't make it). His individual brilliance saved as twice at crucial times stopping what could have turned into a run of losses.

Egan wasn't that good this year. I daresay he's past his peak. It will be interesting to see if Metcalf will retain his form when he comes back, he played way above how well I thought he could this year. He's not an organiser though, and neither is CHT.

We've got good young forwards yet we brought back in Ford who is a plod and gave away two penalties at crucial times.

I don't have a problem with coaches having favourites, it's the nature of the sport, I just wish Webby's weren't guys like Ford and Berry. Capewell can bugger off too.
 

Matiunz

Juniors
Messages
1,378
To be fair to Brandy, I can see that period of his career having a heap of baggage - he just wanted to get the hell out of Sydney because everything was just too painful to stay... and it's understandable that influences his feelings about everything from that time, even if on a subconscious level.
Yeah get it was a tough time with his brothers passing, also think it was a bit of a hit to his ego making way for the emergence of SJ. In saying that you’d think he’d be proud of being a key guy in the start of NZs first professional sporting franchise but you rarely see him acknowledge it- I can’t remember ever seeing him interact with the old boys etc?
 

Matiunz

Juniors
Messages
1,378
Yeh good point

He was good at the warriors from what I can remember

That whole Penrith side got blown up by his brothers death then super league
He was ok, problem in the early days plenty of the Big name non NZ players came for the paycheck/retirement fund and didn’t really put in and we actually got more value out of the lesser known locals - Brandy was “ok” but (understandably) not the player he was and there was talk he wasn’t impressed when Stacy took his spot. Phil Blake was probably the pick of the Aussie imports.
 

Matiunz

Juniors
Messages
1,378
The game likes to use Super League as the reason why things weren't going well in Sydney, but truth is crowds were down long before Murdoch came along.

Arko et al. had plans to merge, relocate or let die teams of no interest to them, the Broncos came along and they became an good out for them to heap their problems on to.

Wahs siding with the Super League was an interesting one though.
I was initially disappointed in the Warriors siding with Superleague as I saw it as being a little disrespectful jumping so early- however the ridiculous financial albatross that the likes of Warriors and Western Reds had to deal with (paying for flights and accommodation for both their away games as well as covering visiting teams) it’s no surprise they jumped at the chance to free themselves from that. Another big factor was the NZRL and every other international team siding with Superleague the Warriors needed to go along to keep the kiwis competitive
 

Matiunz

Juniors
Messages
1,378
No super league then Cronulla and wests would’ve died

Bears would’ve stayed at Gosford and Balmain

Perth would’ve been around for 30 years plus crushers and Gold Coast

What’s happening now is what would’ve happened in 95 if Murdoch left it alone or if Arko had let packer and Murdoch fight it out and stayed neutral

Even today with the two jv they aren’t really working and that’s 30 years on

Its 30 years the game basically did nothing

Nrl could already have sewn up Australia, nz etc and doing real stuff intentionally
The Struggles the GC Giants/Seagulls/Gladiators/Crushers had with an identity it wouldn’t surprised me if they had merged with the Crushers at some point. Would have been interesting to see what Perth would have become and if Adelaide would have carved out a foothold.
Sydney rationalised properly and keeping the old NSWRL clubs alive in NSW cup ala newton/norths/Wests was a missed opportunity post Superleague
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
74,301
Warriors never fail to disappoint. So frustrating when you see how much talent comes out of NZ.nat least they had a great year off the field with all the sell out crowds.
 

Matiunz

Juniors
Messages
1,378
For Warriors fans, at the start of next year, you want to see hard decisions being made and a clear direction of how they want to play.. Tanah Boyd and DWZ need to be moved on . TMM 7 Metcalf 6, Tuapici Fullback with CNK center .
At least they'll be dangerous in attack.
Looking at our recruitment targets of late think the club are well aware of what we need. Forwards I think we are in a pretty good spot with a mix of experience and some fantastic youth coming through, however the loss of Barney was massive and probably equal to that of Metcalf- looking at targets we are looking at another prop, we’ve signed that kid from Souths and were offered NAS (but not at his price).
Backs is the big work on, our backline is old, slow and vanilla. CNK I liked at centre for the kiwis and wanted him there for a while for us but he tends to hog the ball a bit and didn’t have great games when he covered there this year (talks he was injured)
Pompey I think is ok as one centre (need journeymen) and I want Webby to push Ali, he has some deficiencies in his game but we lack an attacking weapon that he could be.
Wings again the club have shown their hand by not resigning Kosi and signing Mellars and supposedly chasing AKP. Think DWZ has just been broken and may fade into the sunset, can’t keep letting teams exploit his defence.
WANT RTS at fullback but we all know it’ll be CNK, not the worst thing in the world considering Roger’s form on the wing.
Tuauapiki is a tough one, his height really lets him down as a wing option (better clubs exploited it) like that he’s had better defensive plays than CnK and gas that attacking spark but can’t see him taking the top spot sadly.
Metcalf is better when he doesn’t have to play the organising role and just focus on heads up plays, however he wants to be that guy and play 7 so I think that’s what we will see. Not a fan of CHT but he complimented Metcalf well and thrives on not being the main guy so happy enough to have either him or TMM- problem is none of them have a particularly long kicking game nor thrive on controlling a team- Tannah dies that but also shits the bed and us the least dynamic out if all of them.
There’s a few you halves in Cleary,Hansen and Linate who are probably a good year away hence why we have Tannah/TMM/CHT placeholding currently. People are seeing the Cleary name and seeing his brother- he’s a long way off that.
Webbys frustrating for his loyalty to some players and questionable selections/bench rotations at times. But I think he’s playing the long game in instilling the basics and culture in our team and trying to build on that. You can definitely see improvements in development, resilience attitude etc so at least some foundations are being built- even Penrith’s famous 5 year play took probably closer to 8, we just need to be patient.
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
45,183
The Struggles the GC Giants/Seagulls/Gladiators/Crushers had with an identity it wouldn’t surprised me if they had merged with the Crushers at some point. Would have been interesting to see what Perth would have become and if Adelaide would have carved out a foothold.
Sydney rationalised properly and keeping the old NSWRL clubs alive in NSW cup ala newton/norths/Wests was a missed opportunity post Superleague

League back then in Perth was strong

Their local comp would get 10k to the grand final

Afl way less dominant

Adelaide was only a filler club since Newcastle and St George didn’t go to super league

I don’t think Sydney rationalised properly

Better for some clubs to die off completely

Illawarra should have their own side and dragons be the southern side
 

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