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Qlds 18th man....

Greenbits

Juniors
Messages
434
When they live in Aussie are they clearly still Kiwis? Surely its their choice to determine whether they are now Kiwis or Qlders. Teo is living in Qld now is he not?
If I moved overseas for my career, I'd still consider myself an Aussie would you? Do the Kiwis playing in the ESL consider themselves Kiwis or Poms? I'm living in Brisbane and certainly don't consider myself a QLDer, but would represent QLD if they were playing against Victoria.

GI knew what he was doing. He may claim innocence - but he aint colour blind. I'm sure he could tell the difference between a Maroon and a Blue jumper. He made his choice. Maybe that is the problem with NSW - they are not infactuated with the state and the interstate game. Just playing because they have to per Lyon. HAH! Action was not taken over GI - and now it is too late. But it would have been ridiculous - he wanted to play with the boys in Maroon at that stage - why force him to play for a team he does not want to play for? No point in crying over spilt milk. Just suck it up.
Recent article in the press telling the story of how young Greg ended up a QLDer. Don't have the link but I'm sure its floating around here somewhere. He was moved to Brisbane when signed by the Storm. He was given an Origin Eligibility form to fill out - it said where did you play your first senior game? Greg asked if that meant grade match, which was in Brisbane. He did not realise that his games for Hunter Sports High counted, and no one bothered to correct him. He certainly wasn't asked do you want to play for the blues or the maroons? He doesn't strike me as the sharpest tool in the shed, not recongising that the baot that suddenly appeared in his garage was unlikely to be legit. He has lived in QLD for thte total of 1 year in his life. This is a disgrace on the QRLs part, but I agree - its too late now, to change it would be stupid, so we do just need to suck it up.
 

Lambretta

First Grade
Messages
8,694
I would consider it a discrace if Cronk represented NSW as he is clearly a QLDer. I guess thats the diffence between my and QLDs win at all costs philosophy.

Its no suprise that the Storm are a club founded by and built on an ethos of QLDers.

Sorry, the Cronk in brackets thing was a bit of a piss take.
It was a strange decision by QLD to pick Cronk on the bench, but it came right as Phil Gould jokingly said to pick Cronk for NSW as his dad lives in Bondi

Sorry, didnt make that clear.
 

Lambretta

First Grade
Messages
8,694
Nope. It has nothing to do with that at all. I thought I'd made that abundantly clear lately.

Sorry mate, I was just taking the piss with the Queenslanders desperation to be underdogs when they have 80% of the Australian team in their side.

It's one of the funniest things (in a terribly painful way) in Rugby League.
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
If I moved overseas for my career, I'd still consider myself an Aussie would you? Do the Kiwis playing in the ESL consider themselves Kiwis or Poms? I'm living in Brisbane and certainly don't consider myself a QLDer, but would represent QLD if they were playing against Victoria.

I don't know personally as I have not moved. I do know that Henry Paul, Leslie Vainekolo and other kiwi's who played in ESL have turned out for English Rugby Union teams after years of being there.


Recent article in the press telling the story of how young Greg ended up a QLDer. Don't have the link but I'm sure its floating around here somewhere. He was moved to Brisbane when signed by the Storm. He was given an Origin Eligibility form to fill out - it said where did you play your first senior game? Greg asked if that meant grade match, which was in Brisbane. He did not realise that his games for Hunter Sports High counted, and no one bothered to correct him. He certainly wasn't asked do you want to play for the blues or the maroons? He doesn't strike me as the sharpest tool in the shed, not recongising that the baot that suddenly appeared in his garage was unlikely to be legit. He has lived in QLD for thte total of 1 year in his life. This is a disgrace on the QRLs part, but I agree - its too late now, to change it would be stupid, so we do just need to suck it up.

I repeat after editing -

I guess metephorically the GI situation to NSW is like a girl dumping you for another guy. The other guy might have been your acquantance and manipulated situations or even lied to her to encourage her to dump you. He wanted her bad and in the end she wanted him too. You think but she's mine and the rejection is hard to swallow. Then mum tells you everything will be alright and no point in crying over spilt milk. Just suck it up and theres plenty more fish in the sea. Then you see her in the club looking damn fine and she still a better catch than what you've got now as she palms your current girl friend in the face and scores under the crossbar, and you think - I should not have let her go. But you didn't let her go - she dumped you for the other guy and crying will not get her back or make her current boy friend dump her. All's fair in love and war.
 
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Greenbits

Juniors
Messages
434
I don't know personally as I have not moved. I do know that Henry Paul, Leslie Vainekolo and other kiwi's who played in ESL have turned out for English Rugby Union teams after years of being there.




I repeat after editing -

I guess metephorically the GI situation to NSW is like a girl dumping you for another guy. The other guy might have been your acquantance and manipulated situations or even lied to her to encourage her to dump you. He wanted her bad and in the end she wanted him too. You think but she's mine and the rejection is hard to swallow. Then mum tells you everything will be alright and no point in crying over spilt milk. Just suck it up and theres plenty more fish in the sea. Then you see her in the club looking damn fine and she still a better catch than what you've got now as she palms your current girl friend in the face and scores under the crossbar, and you think - I should not have let her go. But you didn't let her go - she dumped you for the other guy and crying will not get her back or make her current boy friend dump her. All's fair in love and war.
:lol: Nice analagy, but you've got to admit the other guy that lied, cheated and persuaded her to dump you is a right proper c***
 

Lambretta

First Grade
Messages
8,694
I've got no problems with Thorn or Hunt. Te'o is dodgy and GI is outright discraceful.

I do, the man was a glory seaking whore of the lowest kind.

I'm Australian when I play league, but I'm a New Zealander when I play Union? What is that about?

You're either an Australian or a Kiwi. You're never both and nor should you ever be. Thats like me playing football for England and Rubgy for Ireland. I am eligible for both. But I'd never do it.

Playing for your Nation is supposed to be about Pride in the colours you wear and of your heritage and the people you represent.

Brad Thorn was all about representing himself as far as I see things.
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
:lol: Nice analagy, but you've got to admit the other guy that lied, cheated and persuaded her to dump you is a right proper c***

Think back to the end of High School - You love your girlfriend - you going to let her goto schoolies without you with another guy who is your competition who you know is keen on her?

That's what NSW did by letting Greg spend a year in Qld.

No I do not agree that guy is a c**k. You never bad mouthed another guy/competitior or used a situation to your advantage to get the girl/close the account? Have you not loved or sold before? Love and sales is an inevitable weakness that throws the moral rule book out of play.
 
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Greenbits

Juniors
Messages
434
Think back to the end of High School - You love your girlfriend - you going to let her goto schoolies without you with a mate who you know is keen on her?

That's what NSW did by letting Greg spend a year in Qld.

I would of thought I could trust my mate to keep his filthy hands to himself and off my girl. Between the two of us we'd seen some high class chicks together, but always looked out for each other. Sure there were petty jealousies, but we knew we could look but not touch. That dude overstepped the mark. Bros before hoes man, bros before hoes.

I'd always hold a bit of flame for the girl, with some resentment. Its still nice to see her strutting her stuff, even if its not with me. But as for my mate that f**** me over... I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire. Hell even Toddy probably wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire (though he would quite probably piss on him if he wasn't on fire).

Toadd insult to injury, you are sure that your former mate must deep down feel bad about the way he treated you. But everytime you see him, he acts like a remorseless smug prick as he rides with your former 6 foot four glamour on her recently acquired boat.
 
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ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
I would of thought I could trust my mate to keep his filthy hands to himself and off my girl. Between the two of us we'd seen some high class chicks together, but always looked out for each other. Sure there were petty jealousies, but we knew we could look but not touch. That dude overstepped the mark. Bros before hoes man, bros before hoes.

I'd always hold a bit of flame for the girl, with some resentment. Its still nice to see her strutting her stuff, even if its not with me. But as for my mate that f**** me over... I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire. Hell even Toddy probably wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire (though he would quite probably piss on him if he wasn't on fire).

When has it ever been bros before hoes? face reality. You get a girl - the first thing she does is evaluate your friends and cull the ones she does not like from your life. The girl gets what she wants if you ever want any peace, quiet or happiness. She makes her choice for partner and you hope its you. BTW in your analogy you got jealous too late. You shoulda been guarding her jealously when she was in your back yard. Same with players who can represent more than one state.

As for your mate - you should have known that the competition you had shared for that many years meant he was not your true friend - but your rival - and he always wanted her and thought he could treat her better than you. You were too busy checking on the many many many other friends who were girls in your life than to give her the attention she felt she deserved.

Love your boat line, though.
 
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Greenbits

Juniors
Messages
434
When has it ever been bros before hoes? Grow up. You get a girl - the first thing she does is evaluate your friends and cull the ones she does not like from your life. The girl gets what she wants if you ever want any peace, quiet or happiness. She makes her choice for partner and you hope its you. BTW in your analogy you got jealous too late. You shoulda been guarding her jealously when she was in your back yard. Same with players who can represent more than one state.

As for your mate - you should have known that the competition you had shared for that many years meant he was not your true friend - but your rival.

Fatal flaw in your argument. GI is not eligible to represent two states. Under origin rules, GI is ineligible to play for QLD. Thats the whole point.
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
It was actually a reference to players like Nagas not GI. Hence the "same with" and why I broke from metaphor.
 

Bluebags1908

Juniors
Messages
1,258
Queensland has a long and illustrious history of bending the selection eligibility rules. Quite ironic really when the whole State Of Origin concept was created to help them.

I acknowledge that the SOO eligibility is not strictly about where you were born, and NSW have chosen non-NSW born players in the past - but when NSW has done so a player grew up and was raised in NSW from a young age and played their first football in NSW and are therefore genuine NSWelshmen.

The same can't always be said for Queensland. How's this for an illustrious list? The ones in bold are dead-set rort selections. The ones not bolded just happened to be born elsewhere and are genuine Queenslanders. But it's really starting to turn into a farce now.

Karmichael Hunt (NZ)
Brad Thorn (NZ)
Ben Te'o (NZ)
Tonie Carroll (NZ)
Petero Civonieciva (Fiji)
Sam Thaiday (NSW)
Greg Inglis (NSW)
Michael Croker (NSW)
Adrian Lam (PNG)
Neville Costigan (PNG)
Graeme Lowe (former coach - NZ)
Billy Moore (born & raised in Tenterfield, NSW)
Willie Tonga (ACT)
Israel Folau (NSW)
Wayne Bartrim (NSW)
Matt Rogers (NSW)

And this list is just off the top of my head...
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
The same can't always be said for Queensland. How's this for an illustrious list? The ones in bold are dead-set rort selections. The ones not bolded just happened to be born elsewhere and are genuine Queenslanders. But it's really starting to turn into a farce now.

Why mention the ones who are genuine Qlders then?
Karmichael Hunt (NZ)
Brad Thorn (NZ)
Ben Te'o (NZ)
Tonie Carroll (NZ)
Petero Civonieciva (Fiji)
Sam Thaiday (NSW)
Greg Inglis (NSW)
Michael Croker (NSW)
Adrian Lam (PNG)
Neville Costigan (PNG)
Graeme Lowe (former coach - NZ)
Billy Moore (born & raised in Tenterfield, NSW)
Willie Tonga (ACT)
Israel Folau (NSW)
Wayne Bartrim (NSW)
Matt Rogers (NSW)

And this list is just off the top of my head...

Karmichael Hunt attended school in Qld when he moved from NZ at 12 years of age.
As did Brad Thorn when he moved to Qld at 8.
Tonie Carroll also attended school in Qld.
Mat Rogers went to school in Qld.
Neville Costigan went to school in Qld.
Adrian Lam went to school in Qld from the age of 7.
Wayne Bartrim has retired in Qld has he not - seems like a Qlder to me.

And thats just off the top of my head.

Why does the coach have to come from Qld - I fail to see your point. Are there coaching eligibility rules now?


Do Qlders cry over NSW having

Peter Stirling [Qld]
Ken Nagas [Qld]
Willie Mason [NZ]
McManus [Scotland]

No - we do not.
 
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Nightward

Juniors
Messages
874
Is there any evidence chose QLD over NSW. My reading in the media is that he genuinely thought he was supposed to play for them and QLD officials did nothing to correct his view. Of course he is loving now, who wouldn't after belting the opposition for four years straight. Action should have been taken to correct this mistake when it came to light IMO - its State of Origin, not State of Mild Infatuation. I've got no problems with Thorn or Hunt. Te'o is dodgy and GI is outright discraceful.

Inglis grew up supporting Queensland. He believed he was a Queenslander, as did the QRL. The NSWRL had every opportunity to provide the evidence that he had played X games here or there and was technically meant to be a Blue... but did not.

Quite the reverse- they twirled their moustaches and mocked the QRL for selecting a young and untried player.

Of course, he then carved up in Origin, so hey presto, evidence surfaces that he was actually a Blue and the bitching began.

It's ridiculous. As far as anyone- including the man himself- knew, he was a Queenslander. It was what he wanted to be.

The problem is that the current rules are still borked. The "first senior football" rule is open to abuse. What if one State or the other spots a promising young player who lives across the border and calls them up for a trial match at "senior" football level, based on the theory of "hey, screw those guys."

Said player sits on the bench, does nothing, and yet the records now say in black and white that they can never represent their home State.

How much garbage is that? And yet, that is exactly what the rules allow to take place. Too bad if said player is a staunch NSWman or QLDer and is told they have to play for the other side. How well do you think they will go in Origin then? And how is that different to what NSW was doing year in, year out by deploying teams packed with Queenslanders?

The only sensible solution is to have players declare their national (and State, if applicable) affiliation at some age, say sixteen. It is then locked and to represent another nation they must have citizenship and residence for at least three years, whilst their State is locked forever. Those who do not declare for Australia and NSW or QLD at that stage are never eligible for State duty, even if they later transfer their allegience to Australia.

Sorry mate, I was just taking the piss with the Queenslanders desperation to be underdogs when they have 80% of the Australian team in their side.

That's what we should have had :s Predictably, however, for the ANZAC test the selectors ignored the incumbents and fielded a team that had too many Blues who had no right to be there.

I do, the man was a glory seaking whore of the lowest kind.
I'm Australian when I play league, but I'm a New Zealander when I play Union? What is that about?

Blame Union's eligibility rules. More pragmatically, Thorn is a dead-set freak who could break into the two strongest teams (for the respective codes) on the planet.

Karmichael Hunt (NZ)
Brad Thorn (NZ)

Moved here young, became Aussies, decided they wanted to play for Queensland.

Tonie Carroll (NZ)

Is an Aussie, only played for NZ because of relaxed IRL World Cup selection policies. Or should Jarryd Hane and the like now give up their Blues jerseys as well?

Petero Civonieciva (Fiji)

Is Australian, came of age in Queensland.

Sam Thaiday (NSW)

The guy is from an island off Queensland and grew up wanting to be a Maroon.

It this point, the stupid was just burning me too badly. This is the perfect example of what I'm talking about- someone who only dreams of playing for one State, has the misfortune of playing a match here or there on the wrong side of the border, and then runs the risk of being stuck in the wrong jersey forever after.

I also notice there's not a lot of time spent on players like McManus nor the way so many were wanting Sonny-Bill Williams to turn up in Blue (largely because they felt like it would be advantageous to have him, rather than because he deserved to play for NSW).
Essentially, when the shoe is on the other foot...

No - we do not.

Largely beause such complaints fall on deaf ears or are drowned out in the chorus of "BUUUT GREG IIIIIIINNNNNNNGLISSSSSSS...."
 
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Bluebags1908

Juniors
Messages
1,258
Inglis grew up supporting Queensland. He believed he was a Queenslander, as did the QRL.

Since when was 'Growing up supporting Queensland' written into the eligibility rules? Stiff sh!t if he supported Queensland when he was younger.

And if he believed he is a Queenslander after being born, raised, went to school and played his first Rugby League in NSW and spending 90% of his life in NSW and a grand total of 1 year of his life in Queensland because the NRL club that recruited him by sheer chance just so happened to have a feeder team based in Queensland at the time then he has some serious mental and identity issues.

And I don't think the QRL 'believed he was a Queenslander'. They knew what they were doing.
 
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Bluebags1908

Juniors
Messages
1,258
Why mention the ones who are genuine Qlders then?

Do Qlders cry over NSW having

Peter Stirling [Qld]
Ken Nagas [Qld]
Willie Mason [NZ]
McManus [Scotland]

No - we do not.

You will notice that you could only come up with 4 non-NSW born players. I came up with 16 in an instant. Actually, I thought of another one - I'll add Antonio Kaufusi (Tonga) to the list, and is another bolded rort selection.

And of the 4 non-NSW born NSW players you mention above, only McManus is a rort selection. All the rest moved to NSW when very young and grew up and played their first football in NSW.


Karmichael Hunt (NZ)
Brad Thorn (NZ)
Ben Te'o (NZ)
Tonie Carroll (NZ)
Petero Civonieciva (Fiji)
Sam Thaiday (NSW)
Greg Inglis (NSW)
Michael Croker (NSW)
Adrian Lam (PNG)
Neville Costigan (PNG)
Graeme Lowe (former coach - NZ)
Billy Moore (born & raised in Tenterfield, NSW)
Willie Tonga (ACT)
Israel Folau (NSW)
Wayne Bartrim (NSW)
Matt Rogers (NSW)
Antonio Kaufusi (Tonga)

And this list is just off the top of my head...
 
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Bluebags1908

Juniors
Messages
1,258
Why does the coach have to come from Qld - I fail to see your point. Are there coaching eligibility rules now?

The reason I added him to the list is simple - he is not a Queenslander. He in fact coached the NZ national team in the 1980's prior to masquerading as a Queenslander in the early 1990's.

Every coach NSW has ever has is a NSWelshman.
 

Serc

First Grade
Messages
6,902
The 'GI supported Queensland when he was a kid' thing was blown out of the water by an article (which has been posted on this forum numerous times) where some of his relatives were interviewed and suggested quite the opposite!
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,972
The only sensible solution is to have players declare their national (and State, if applicable) affiliation at some age, say sixteen. It is then locked and to represent another nation they must have citizenship and residence for at least three years, whilst their State is locked forever. Those who do not declare for Australia and NSW or QLD at that stage are never eligible for State duty, even if they later transfer their allegience to Australia.

Good idea. Side effect of increasing players declaring themselves available for minnow nations I expect.
 
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