Bret Stewart >Josh Dugan & Hayne

[Poupou Escobar]

There have been some outrageous claims made (ignoring loudstat who I hope is just trying to troll the traditionally crazed Raiders supporters) the ones I take issue with the most is

A) Teams aren't already targeting Josh Dugan more than any other Raider besides Campese (and even that is maybe. Dugan is far more consistent and dare I say it more skilled that Campo). PE you are huffing glue if you do not believe there has been attempts to shut down Dugan from almost day one. Coaches have eyes mate. There was a game against Newcastle in his debut year where Dugan was public enemy number 1. Sides are already kicking away from him. SUPER COACH Wayne Bennett quite clearly instructed the Dragons to avoid involving Dugan as best they can. You are absolutely talking sh*t on that one.

Do you think NRL coaches are morons mate.

It's not the coaches mate it's the players.

They don't fear Dugan the way they fear Slater and Hayne. The coach can warn their team about a player but it's up to the players to feel the respect and adjust accordingly. Even the Tigers in that semi had a few kick-chasers allow Dugan to get one-on-one with them. It's a lot easier to break the tackle of one defender than 2 or 3.

When they look over the Raiders side Dugan is the guy who is probably going to have at worse a good game. He is consistent as hell and has only played like two poor games in his entire career. Both of which were during the WILL HE GO TO THE ROOSTERS SAGA that was later found to be apparently totally made up by the Daily Telegraph.

and

B) that Josh Dugan doesn't have any potential to improve. This claim by PE should be answered with nothing more than an emoticon (ie this one :lol but the amount of times Dugan gets in position to stop a try but gets bumped off due to him not yet being at his physical peak is unbelievable. His positioning is first class and when he gets the strength to match that positioning he will be an even better defensive fullback.

That is not taking into account his growing play making ability. Just this year alone he has added a pretty strong passing game.

You would have to be a complete mong to believe a 20 year old stick figure who is famed for his defence is not going to improve. Are you seriously that stupid PE. You do know that he like all humans is going to physically get stronger as he goes through his twenties. Dugan isn't some kind of alien. So that is one area he will get better as he ages (defence), I tend to believe the improvement in his passing game shows that he will continue getting better in other aspects of the game. You deadset clown.

Bit of a touchy subject eh?

Dugan's good but he's too slow to ever be great. Strong like a genius though.

 

[The 18th Man]

The rugby league IQ of LU has been lowered by some in this thread re: statements against Josh Dugan.

 

[Pete Cash]

The point is PE that unless Dugan is quite literally a creature from another planet he is going to get stronger as he physically develops. You are talking sh*t.

Do you believe that Josh Dugan is physically developed as a 20 year old ??

 

[Loudstrat]

There really needs to be some kind of measure to stop drunken/drug f**ked posts like the ones from this Loudtwat gimp from being submitted. He doesn't even watch games

:lol::lol: Where does this "doesn't watch games" crap come from? You missed your injection this morning? Go and get ready for a Dragons premiership, which should fuel siucidal thoughts in your demented head for another 12 months.

Pete - in the case of the above dribbler - you are probably right. However, Raiders fans have a bit to blame for turning a tread about Stewart into a Dugan love in as per f*cking usual, and then into a Hayne bagfest. And to whinge like Raiders Premiers stupid c*ckbreath at the resulting defence. FFS. Dugan is good, and is the next generation with Lachlan Coote and one or two others. THIS generation is Slater v Hayne v Snake. Dugan aint there yet. Deal with it.

 

[Pete Cash]

Dugans name is in the thread title

 

[Ladmate]

Brett Stewart 2 years ago = Dugan now = Hayne now
Dugan now = Hayne now > Brett Stewart now

 

[CliffyIsGod]

Brett Stewart 2 years ago = Dugan now = Hayne now
Dugan now = Hayne now > Brett Stewart now

Stewart 2 years ago = Hayne now > Dugan now.

Agree with your second one. I hope Snake can recapture his form.

 

[Raider_69]

It's not the coaches mate it's the players.

They don't fear Dugan the way they fear Slater and Hayne

absolutely laughable, you've lost any slim credibility you had by this comment

 

[The 18th Man]

absolutely laughable, you've lost any slim credibility you had by this comment

Cosigned and it has to be said, he ain't the only one.

p.s. Nice Kolb banner btw ;-)

 

[Raiders_Premiers]

However, Raiders fans have a bit to blame for turning a tread about Stewart into a Dugan love in as per f*cking usual

This thread is about Dugan as well you f**king turd

and then into a Hayne bagfest.

Did you miss my earlier post about Hayne?

. Dugan is good, and is the next generation with Lachlan Coote and one or two others

So that's why you've been bagging Dugan and rightly been laughed at?

THIS generation is Slater v Hayne v Snake. Dugan aint there yet. Deal with it.

:lol: :lol:

You are a senile old git. Don't forget to take your meds before you post wanker

 

[Raiders_Premiers]

The rugby league IQ of LU has been lowered by some in this thread re: statements against Josh Dugan.

x 2

 

[Poupou Escobar]

The point is PE that unless Dugan is quite literally a creature from another planet he is going to get stronger as he physically develops. You are talking sh*t.

Do you believe that Josh Dugan is physically developed as a 20 year old ??

I don't really care mate. This thread is about the top fullbacks in the game. You should start a seperate thread for nuffies like Josh Dugan.

Dugan is good, and is the next generation with Lachlan Coote and one or two others. THIS generation is Slater v Hayne v Snake.

So there's only 2 years in a generation?

Hayne's closer to Dugan and Coote's age than he is to Slater's. Don't be fooled by his 100+ first grade games his 11 Origins and his Kangaroos jerseys.

Dugans name is in the thread title

The point is, it really shouldn't be.

absolutely laughable, you've lost any slim credibility you had by this comment

I've lost credibility?

You're the one talking about Dugan in a thread discussing Origin fullbacks. I'm just waiting for somebody to throw Beau Ryan's name out there and make the thread a complete f**king joke.

 

[Pete Cash]

lol yes good one PE. You have been exposed as a moron so turn the trolling up to a zillion. The old LU way.

My only memory of Hayne this year was being stood up by Joel Thompson and being outplayed by Josh Dugan

 

[Poupou Escobar]

My only memory of Hayne this year was being stood up by Joel Thompson and being outplayed by Josh Dugan

So you've seen Hayne play once and you feel qualified to comment on him?

I went to one live game this year and saw Hayne not only outplay Billy Slater, but headbutt him in the face as well. Absolutely gorgeous.

I didn't go to the Canberra game because who gives a sh*t about the Raiders y'know?

Though I did watch on telly as Dugan got outplayed by Beau Ryan in Canberra in round 4. What a clash of the titans that was. How about when Dugan, facing the awesome Mitch Brown in the finals in Canberra, made a break and fell over? Did you see that? Or in the same game when he was thrown into touch near his own line? Or when he threw the ball over the sideline?

Every player has good games and bad games mate. But since you've only seen Hayne play once you could be forgiven for not knowing that.

 

[typicalfan]

It's not the coaches mate it's the players.

They don't fear Dugan the way they fear Slater and Hayne. The coach can warn their team about a player but it's up to the players to feel the respect and adjust accordingly. Even the Tigers in that semi had a few kick-chasers allow Dugan to get one-on-one with them. It's a lot easier to break the tackle of one defender than 2 or 3.



Bit of a touchy subject eh?

Dugan's good but he's too slow to ever be great. Strong like a genius though.

Coming from the guy who reckons Dugan has hit his peak from the age of 21 I think the benefit of the doubt has been moved swiftly away from your judgment on players.

Dugan has a remarkably similar running style to Gary Belcher, among the best fullbacks if not the best of the last 30 years. His speed is quite fine. Much faster than Karmichael Hunt who played for Australia, I would say he is easily as quick as Jack, Hodgson or Brasher as well.

 

[typicalfan]

So you've seen Hayne play once and you feel qualified to comment on him?

I went to one live game this year and saw Hayne not only outplay Billy Slater, but headbutt him in the face as well. Absolutely gorgeous.

I didn't go to the Canberra game because who gives a sh*t about the Raiders y'know?

Though I did watch on telly as Dugan got outplayed by Beau Ryan in Canberra in round 4. What a clash of the titans that was. How about when Dugan, facing the awesome Mitch Brown in the finals in Canberra, made a break and fell over? Did you see that? Or in the same game when he was thrown into touch near his own line? Or when he threw the ball over the sideline?

Every player has good games and bad games mate. But since you've only seen Hayne play once you could be forgiven for not knowing that.

Went to a live game featuring Slater and Hayne. Two actually in the last 12 months. The 2009 Grand Final and the 3rd Origin. It is safe to say Slater had his measure comfortably on both occasions even if he did make a few mistakes in the Grand Final. Hayne was noticably absent and ineffective. Noticable enough to grab the attention of a few Parra notables I was with.

 

[typicalfan]

Also on Jarryd Hayne making the most running metres in 2009 is impressive as you would expect given the season he had but despite Dugan being a "nuffy" managed more metres per game, and more kick return metres per game than any other fullback and this was in his rookie year. Was 8th in tackles breaks (played only 16 games) and is first in tackle breaks in 2010.

Didn't win the 2009 rookie of the year though despite polling more strongly than the actual winner and polling strongly again in 2010. 29 Dally M points in his first 36 games.

Dugan was also part of the 21 man NSW squad this year and would logically be below in the pecking order to Hayne.

But in saying this the stats don't tell the full story. Like Hayne I think his Dugan gets the wraps sometimes when others put in the work mainly because he is one of those players you remember to watch.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Went to a live game featuring Slater and Hayne. Two actually in the last 12 months. The 2009 Grand Final and the 3rd Origin. It is safe to say Slater had his measure comfortably on both occasions even if he did make a few mistakes in the Grand Final. Hayne was noticably absent and ineffective. Noticable enough to grab the attention of a few Parra notables I was with.

Fancy Hayne not winning single-handedly against a six million dollar team and then again against the Australian team in the maroon jerseys.

Hayne made more metres and less mistakes in the '09 grand final. This against a team a mile over the salary cap.

And don't even talk about Origin. Hayne's the only player in the Blues side who'd make the QLD team, according to Chris Close. Slater has an easy time in Origin, as would any Maroons fullback.

The one time Hayne and Slater played in even teams (round 13 this year) Hayne absolutely destroyed him.

 

[typicalfan]

Face it the moment you are facing the reality of getting bit on the backside you go back to your book of stats. I was there, I watched the game live. A team of 100 million dollars over the cap doesn't stop you from putting your best foot forward. He didn't. And lol at single handedly. Moimoi was a standout for the Eels in the decider, throw Kingston as well. Hayne didn't bring the game he did in the weeks prior. This was evident very early on.

And Slater was the man of the match and series in origin. Understand the concept of being the best player on the entire park. He got the medal in front of all the other very worthy QLD players, you don't do that unless you are among the best if not the best player in the game. He won the QLD team the match in a game where NSW were in control of.

Hayne's performance in SOO 3 was widely regarded as poor and no stat changes that. Didn't stand out one bit in either origin match from fullback.

Slater >>>> Hayne. As fullbacks the gap between Hayne and Dugan is smaller than the gap between Slater and Hayne.

And don't forget there was a lot of support for Dugan over Hayne as the fullback option in origin. The fact that Hayne can play on the wing (played his best in origin there) and Gidley off the bench (same goes) can and will eventually work in Dugan's favour. Dugan's inexperience lost him the battle in the end but if 2011 starts the same as 2010 then I would expect to see Dugan debut next year.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Also on Jarryd Hayne making the most running metres in 2009 is impressive as you would expect given the season he had but despite Dugan being a "nuffy" managed more metres per game, and more kick return metres per game than any other fullback and this was in his rookie year.

Plenty of players play well in their rookie year (Hayne got Dally M Rookie of the Year in his). That's why it's called 'second season syndrome' rather than 'rookie season syndrome'.

Runs (non kick return)
Dugan
2010: 245 runs at 8.5 metres/run
2009: 208/8.4

Hayne
2010: 271/8.7
2009: 304/9.4

Kick Returns
Dugan
2010: 12.1 metres/return
2009: 12.1

Hayne
2010: 11.7 metres/return
2009: 12.8

All quite interesting, with the key stat being that while Hayne's metres per run in general play are still higher than Dugan's this year, his metres per kick return are much less - evidence teams are deliberately kicking (and chasing) to nullify his kick return. It's clearly harder to limit his running in attack because they can't dictate where and how he receives the ball.

Here's more evidence:

Kick Returns
Dugan
2010: 5.6 returns/game
2009: 6.8

Hayne
2010: 5.1 returns/game
2009: 6.1

Teams have learnt not to kick to Dugan so much but they still kick to him more than they kick to Hayne.

Was 8th in tackles breaks (played only 16 games) and is first in tackle breaks in 2010.

Tackle breaks are a bit of a nothing stat in that they bear little relation to linebreaks, and can indicate a number of different things - a player that runs sideways and even backwards a lot, a player that fights in the tackle instead of going for a quick play-the-ball, or a player whose halves manage to get him into a lot of one-on-one contests against isolated defenders.

Here's the tackle break champions of the past 5 years:

Dugan (2010)
Tackle breaks: 192
Linebreaks: 20

Hayne (2009)
Tackle breaks: 184
Linebreaks: 32

Folau (2008)
Tackle breaks: 146
Linebreaks: 17

Bowen (2007)
Tackle breaks: 220
Linebreaks: 32

Hodges (2006)
Tackle breaks: 167
Linebreaks: 23

But in saying this the stats don't tell the full story.

Agreed. However the stats are all we have to back up our arguments on the internet so they have their place.

Like Hayne I think his Dugan gets the wraps sometimes when others put in the work mainly because he is one of those players you remember to watch.

Of course.

Though you have to admit Campese is the main man at Canberra. At Parramatta it's Jarryd Hayne except for the handful of games where Mateo feels like turning up.