Konrad Hurrell

[deal.with.it]

Because perception is everything for the wider media

 

[Knownothing]

Because perception is everything for the wider media

Perception and reality are usually pretty closely related, especially where organised sport is concerned.


When all levels of rugby league truly believe that the World Cup is the pinnacle of the game, with sanctioned Test matches at the next level down, above club and provincial competitions, then the media will reflect that fact. To represent his country of birth (or permanent affiliation under proper rules) should be every good player's prime objective; and to do so at a World Cup should be at the very top of the tree.


People are not easily fooled, in my experience. Talk is cheap, action is what counts.

 

[byrner]

Perception and reality are usually pretty closely related, especially where organised sport is concerned.


When all levels of rugby league truly believe that the World Cup is the pinnacle of the game, with sanctioned Test matches at the next level down, above club and provincial competitions, then the media will reflect that fact. To represent his country of birth (or permanent affiliation under proper rules) should be every good player's prime objective; and to do so at a World Cup should be at the very top of the tree.


People are not easily fooled, in my experience. Talk is cheap, action is what counts.

What he said.

 

[Springs]

One nation for life can only come after every nation is playing 5-10 tests every year. The way it is at the moment, we can't enforce it.

And I don't mind players switching nations, as long as it isn't on residency. If a player connects strongly enough with two nations (eg. born in NZ, heritage Samoa) then I don't care if they represent both nations throughout their career. I don't like players suddenly taking an interest in where their grandparents are born so they can play in the World Cup, but if someone like Civoniceva plays for Australia then later in life plays a few games for Fiji, I have no problem with that.

 

[royce10]

One nation for life can only come after every nation is playing 5-10 tests every year. The way it is at the moment, we can't enforce it.

And I don't mind players switching nations, as long as it isn't on residency. If a player connects strongly enough with two nations (eg. born in NZ, heritage Samoa) then I don't care if they represent both nations throughout their career. I don't like players suddenly taking an interest in where their grandparents are born so they can play in the World Cup, but if someone like Civoniceva plays for Australia then later in life plays a few games for Fiji, I have no problem with that.

Completely agree. Some people fail to realize that PI's love and embrace their heritage as much as their country of birth, whether it be Aus or NZ. Playing for their island nation at the end or very early in their careers, doesn't bother me one bit.

 

[hutch]

But farcical situations such as hayne playing for aus, then Fiji for 4 weeks, then aus again, or moi moi going from tonga to nz back to tonga then nz again and now back to tonga is an absolute farce and damages our sport. Or tupou being in the Aussie train on squad, only to miss out and join tonga, and to then get called up for aus again after an injury. There are dozens more examples which damage our game. Not only damage the credibility of the sport, but also hold these nations back. Countries such as tonga have been opting for the quick fix for too long. If there were stronger rules regarding nation hopping then the players that play for tonga would be locked in which in time would build a pool of players to choose from and also allows the national team to build an identity.

 

[Springs]

It damages our sport in your eyes. Casual fans barely notice. Other codes' fans barely notice either and if they it doesn't matter as there's similar rules in their code.

Moi Moi is Tongan and should play for Tonga and only qualified for NZ on residency which I said should not be a reason to qualify. Hayne is Fijian so I don't mind him playing for Fiji.

Tonga needs these players at the moment. If it was one nation for life Hurrell would not have chosen to play for Tonga this year. Players like Mateo would never have played for Tonga. The way forward is to make more tests for these nations, at least 5 a year, with regular tests against the big nations, to encourage these players to play every year. This has to come before having one nation for life or a similar rule. The other thing, of course, is to cut the ties between playing Origin and being eligible for Australia.

I don't know what you mean by identity. Everyone who plays for Tonga is Tongan and all the Tongans I've known has got behind them. There's more Tongans in the Tongan team than there are Australians in the Aussie team.

 

[deal.with.it]

5 tests a year is unrealistic. 2-3 is likely.
Lets just adopt the eligibilty rules of every other sport.
A mandatory 2 year stand down period would fix a lot.

 

[hutch]

It damages our sport in your eyes. Casual fans barely notice. Other codes' fans barely notice either and if they it doesn't matter as there's similar rules in their code.

People do notice. In fact a lot of people I talk to about international rugby league think it is a joke, which it is. It is not how successful international sports work and doesn't allow nations to build their player base. It stops countries planning and developing players for the future. All they have to do is wait until aus and nz pick their squads and then pick up the scraps, knowing full well that some of the players they pick would prefer to be playing for a different nation and will at some stage.

Moi Moi is Tongan and should play for Tonga and only qualified for NZ on residency which I said should not be a reason to qualify. Hayne is Fijian so I don't mind him playing for Fiji.

Hayne is not Fijian, his father is. In fact he had barely identified with his Fijian heritage until the 08 rlwc when he was dropped from the Aussie train on squad and then picked up by Fiji. And he has done nothing for them since.

Tonga needs these players at the moment. If it was one nation for life Hurrell would not have chosen to play for Tonga this year. Players like Mateo would never have played for Tonga. The way forward is to make more tests for these nations, at least 5 a year, with regular tests against the big nations, to encourage these players to play every year. This has to come before having one nation for life or a similar rule. The other thing, of course, is to cut the ties between playing Origin and being eligible for Australia.

I agree, all nations need to play more tests every year. 4-5 tests at a bare minimum is completely realistic, especially if origin moves to stand alone weekends which it should. This needs to happen before players can be expected to commit to a nation. I disagree about origin, if you play for an Australian state you should play for Australia. You can't have your cake and eat it too, players need to make a choice but again, it comes down to all nations playing meaningful tests, tournaments and rep games every year. Why are Australia allowed to pull their players out of their clubs 3 times a year every single year but other nations have nothing?

I don't know what you mean by identity. Everyone who plays for Tonga is Tongan and all the Tongans I've known has got behind them. There's more Tongans in the Tongan team than there are Australians in the Aussie team.

Identity as in a national teams identity. Having national teams switch around every year does not allow them to build on their reputation and connect with the people from the country they are meant to be representing. Fui fui should be known as the long time Tongan test player and identified by this. Our sport should be aiming to have these teams competitive in a decades time with a heap of tests under their belt, not going for the quick fix every single time a World Cup comes around.
Don't agree with the last part either, Australia has a team of players 100% committed to the nation and who will live here the rest of their lives.

 

[Springs]

5 tests a year is unrealistic. 2-3 is likely.
Lets just adopt the eligibilty rules of every other sport.
A mandatory 2 year stand down period would fix a lot.

That would be fine. But 5 tests a year is not unrealistic. If they had a proper 5 team Pacific Cup where they all played each other that would be four tests each. Throw in a test against a big nation once a year and five tests. Simple.

All they have to do is wait until aus and nz pick their squads and then pick up the scraps, knowing full well that some of the players they pick would prefer to be playing for a different nation and will at some stage.

Every player that played in the Samoa-Tonga tests declared for them early. They may get a few more players that miss out on Aus/NZ at the end of the year but the majority will have been looking to play for the Pacific nations at this tournament for a long time.

Hayne is not Fijian, his father is. In fact he had barely identified with his Fijian heritage until the 08 rlwc when he was dropped from the Aussie train on squad and then picked up by Fiji. And he has done nothing for them since.

That means he is Fijian! I know a lot of islanders and they would laugh at you if you told them they weren't Tongan/Fijian/Samoan because they weren't born there. I'd say Hayne playing for them went a long way to getting them in the semi final and that went a long way to having the sport more noticed in Fiji.

Don't agree with the last part either, Australia has a team of players 100% committed to the nation and who will live here the rest of their lives.

That's not what I meant. Every player in the Tongan team at least has Tongan heritage. Australia has players like Tamou and Uate who are not 100% committed and mainly switched to play Origin. Tamou is Kiwi, Uate is Fijian. They only qualify by residency which is stupid rule. If they hadn't played before they would be ineligible under the Origin rules. Which raises the question, if these guys are Australian then surely they should be able to play for an Australian state right?
Just because you play for NSW or Australia doesn't make you Australian. It makes you a player in a rep team qualified under silly rules. Anyone should be able to play for NSW provided they qualify for NSW. Since Origin and Internationals have different eligibility rules they should be separated. By selecting Uate they are already selecting a Fijian. He should be able to play for Fiji and should be in their team in this year's World Cup.

 

[byrner]

Circles. These conversations are going in circles.

 

[Knownothing]

It damages our sport in your eyes. Casual fans barely notice. Other codes' fans barely notice either and if they it doesn't matter as there's similar rules in their code.

Which other serious sport allows players to play for two different countries? (Mind you, I agree that a player who is born in country A, but travels to play for, to qualify for, and to represent country B, should be allowed to play for his country of birth towards the end of his career - provided that country A is classified as a developing country).

 

[Springs]

Which other serious sport allows players to play for two different countries? (Mind you, I agree that a player who is born in country A, but travels to play for, to qualify for, and to represent country B, should be allowed to play for his country of birth towards the end of his career - provided that country A is classified as a developing country).

Cricket for one. Soccer has a rule where you can play juniors and friendlies for one nation than switch to another. Union used to but don't now.
And most if not all sports have the heritage and residency rules in place.
We can implement stronger rules once we get more international fixtures. At the moment we can't pretend we have an international scene like soccer and change to rules like theirs.

Anyway, all sports have the problem of players playing for a country they have no real ties to. I have less of a problem with someone like Feleti Mateo playing for Australia and Tonga than I do with someone like Rangi Chase playing for England. Most of the players that play international league at the moment will stay with their country for life. The ones that don't are usually ones qualified on residency or ones that just want to play Origin. Get rid of these two rules and (for the moment) introduce a rule that a player can only switch once. This way we get rid of players like Uate, Hurrell, Tamou, Moi Moi, Greenshields etc switching on residency and allows players like Civoniceva to represent Australia and Fiji during their careers like they deserve to.

 

[deal.with.it]

2 year stand down period if you want to switch nations.
That'll fix it just fine without changing a heap of rules.
Residency exists in most other sports, including the Olympics.
If Moi Moi had to stand down for 2 years before swapping nations, none of that shit would have happened.

As for 5 tests a year:
Until the governing bodies of the island nations can employ people to source sponsors and put on an international event, 5 tests a year is unrealistic.
They have to stand on their own two feat eventually and not rely on the NRL to underwrite every test match.

The RLIF is there to provide grants, but it is expected that the nation will match the RLIF contribution with sponsors, membership fees, registration fees, government grants etc.
The RLIF's two conferderations RLEF and APRLC are (or have) creating a 4 year plan to the next world cup.
That will indicate to current and future players how many matches each nation is set to play. This should also help fixing the nation-swapping farce.

The sport is getting there. If more people spent their time telling their friends/family about international rugby league, watching youtube videos, sponsoring international teams/club teams, becoming members of governing bodies, buying tickets/merchandise etc. than coming up with ludicrous ideas then the sport will advance.

The name is not going to change. The AMNRL/USARL debate is so minor in the grand scheme of things. The RLIF is not an active body, it provides grants. The RLEF and APRLC's are, and are getting better every year.

Couple of concluding points:
Go and have a look at the eligibility rules of other major sports.
It is possible to have more than one nationality and qualify on residency.

But lets not forget it is up to the national governing bodies to decide what is best for the sport in their nation. If I was Tongan chairman/president, I would be telling Moi Moi, Hurrell etc. that it is great they have chosen to play for their nation of birth. But please, next time you speak in the media, focus on the privilege and honour of playing for Tonga, and try to avoid talking about playing for NZ in the future.

 

[franklin2323]

Which other serious sport allows players to play for two different countries? (Mind you, I agree that a player who is born in country A, but travels to play for, to qualify for, and to represent country B, should be allowed to play for his country of birth towards the end of his career - provided that country A is classified as a developing country).

Cricket. Soccer has done it before. Tennis, Olympic sports all though have a standing down period before you can change

 

[Springs]

2 year stand down period if you want to switch nations.
That'll fix it just fine without changing a heap of rules.
Residency exists in most other sports, including the Olympics.
If Moi Moi had to stand down for 2 years before swapping nations, none of that shit would have happened.

As for 5 tests a year:
Until the governing bodies of the island nations can employ people to source sponsors and put on an international event, 5 tests a year is unrealistic.
They have to stand on their own two feat eventually and not rely on the NRL to underwrite every test match.

The RLIF is there to provide grants, but it is expected that the nation will match the RLIF contribution with sponsors, membership fees, registration fees, government grants etc.
The RLIF's two conferderations RLEF and APRLC are (or have) creating a 4 year plan to the next world cup.
That will indicate to current and future players how many matches each nation is set to play. This should also help fixing the nation-swapping farce.

Yes but residency shouldn't exist in any sport. You'll also find it is criticised in all other sports. It is not needed. Fair enough if it was a citizenship rule, but Nathan Fien moving to NZ for 3 years than back to Aus does not make him a Kiwi in any way. He should not be allowed to play for them.

The NRL is where the money is made, they need to help out to help the sport grow. Five tests a year is not unrealistic. There are European Bowl and Shield teams that play several tests a year. If there is ever a 3 week break for Origin like there should be then there's three weeks of non-NRL that can be filled with Pacific tests. There is plenty of time after the season as well.

The sport is getting there. If more people spent their time telling their friends/family about international rugby league, watching youtube videos, sponsoring international teams/club teams, becoming members of governing bodies, buying tickets/merchandise etc. than coming up with ludicrous ideas then the sport will advance.

Watching youtube videos? Yeah they would be good things but the administration/media needs to change their attitude. In Europe the game seems to be growing internationally. They've at least had a major Cup/Shield/Bowl tournament every year and I think they've done well with the World Cup. Here internationals are an afterthought. A post script to the NRL season. Origin is no.1 in the media and the administration's minds. We've done one good thing with the Samoa-Tonga tests but more need to be done.

 

[RedVee]

That would be fine. But 5 tests a year is not unrealistic. If they had a proper 5 team Pacific Cup where they all played each other that would be four tests each. Throw in a test against a big nation once a year and five tests. Simple.



Every player that played in the Samoa-Tonga tests declared for them early. They may get a few more players that miss out on Aus/NZ at the end of the year but the majority will have been looking to play for the Pacific nations at this tournament for a long time.



That means he is Fijian! I know a lot of islanders and they would laugh at you if you told them they weren't Tongan/Fijian/Samoan because they weren't born there. I'd say Hayne playing for them went a long way to getting them in the semi final and that went a long way to having the sport more noticed in Fiji.



That's not what I meant. Every player in the Tongan team at least has Tongan heritage. Australia has players like Tamou and Uate who are not 100% committed and mainly switched to play Origin. Tamou is Kiwi, Uate is Fijian. They only qualify by residency which is stupid rule. If they hadn't played before they would be ineligible under the Origin rules. Which raises the question, if these guys are Australian then surely they should be able to play for an Australian state right?
Just because you play for NSW or Australia doesn't make you Australian. It makes you a player in a rep team qualified under silly rules. Anyone should be able to play for NSW provided they qualify for NSW. Since Origin and Internationals have different eligibility rules they should be separated. By selecting Uate they are already selecting a Fijian. He should be able to play for Fiji and should be in their team in this year's World Cup.

Yes but residency shouldn't exist in any sport. You'll also find it is criticised in all other sports. It is not needed. Fair enough if it was a citizenship rule, but Nathan Fien moving to NZ for 3 years than back to Aus does not make him a Kiwi in any way. He should not be allowed to play for them.

The NRL is where the money is made, they need to help out to help the sport grow. Five tests a year is not unrealistic. There are European Bowl and Shield teams that play several tests a year. If there is ever a 3 week break for Origin like there should be then there's three weeks of non-NRL that can be filled with Pacific tests. There is plenty of time after the season as well.



Watching youtube videos? Yeah they would be good things but the administration/media needs to change their attitude. In Europe the game seems to be growing internationally. They've at least had a major Cup/Shield/Bowl tournament every year and I think they've done well with the World Cup. Here internationals are an afterthought. A post script to the NRL season. Origin is no.1 in the media and the administration's minds. We've done one good thing with the Samoa-Tonga tests but more need to be done.

Uate & Tamou travel with an Australan passport, I think it was a condition of selection availability.

 

[hutch]

http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/9388056/Konrad-Hurrell-plans-to-play-for-Kiwis

Konrad Hurrell plans to play for Kiwis
Last updated 05:00 12/11/2013

DAVID LONG IN HALIFAX

Konrad Hurrell has committed his future to the Kiwis now that Tonga's time at the Rugby League World Cup has come to an end.

The Warriors centre made himself unavailable for New Zealand for the World Cup, deciding that he wanted to represent the country of his birth.

Tonga bowed out of the tournament after beating Italy 16-0 yesterday at the Shay in Halifax, which means New Zealand will play Scotland in Saturday morning's quarterfinal in Leeds.

Hurrell says he doesn't regret choosing Tonga over New Zealand, but in the future he would like to play internationally for the Kiwis.

"I am glad that I've got to represent my country when I'm young and I can develop my career now," Hurrell said.

"I know in myself that I wasn't ready to play for the Kiwis. I have got to play in the World Cup and this was a good opportunity to represent my country.

"Hopefully, I'll develop my game over the next couple of years and then play for the Kiwis."

Hurrell was on the radar of Kiwis coach Stephen Kearney a few months ago and centre is one of the few positions where there aren't a lot of New Zealanders brimming with talent, especially ones who have that X-factor about them that Hurrell has.

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"When I get back home I'll dream about that," Hurrell said of the Kiwis. "Now I am in a good place to have a crack at that, I'll train harder, develop my game and hopefully the Kiwis will pick me next time."

As Hurrell comes from a rugby background, he is still developing as a league player and because of that he feels rubbing shoulders with some of the best Tongan players over the past month has been great for his career.

"The highlight of playing at the World Cup has been to play alongside Brent Kite, Fuifui Moimoi and all of the other superstars, that was a great feeling," he said.

"I am still new to the game and I'm a young bloke trying to be like them, so the opportunity to play alongside them was a big honour."

Hurrell has met up with some of the Warriors players in the Kiwis squad and he believes they will not only comfortably beat Scotland this weekend, but also go on to retain the World Cup.

"I am not being disrespectful to Scotland, but New Zealand has got a good team. They've started strong and I have a feeling that they'll go all of the way and get the World Cup."

However, that's not a view shared by Tonga's captain Brent Kite, who will be hoping for a Scotland win on Saturday.

"I hope they [Scotland] do well," Kite said. "I hope they go out there and give it their all.

"From my point of view I was hoping that Tonga could get into the quarterfinals and show the people we're coming along and that internationally there is a reason to play this game.

"I will be cheering for Scotland and any of the emerging nations that get through to the quarters. I hope they do themselves proud and for the rest of the countries that would love to be there."

 

[RedVee]

So Mr Hurrell, what would change you mind on this one?

 

[Tone83]

I disagree with most on this issue. I don't think it damages the game at all for players to have 2 nations, I also think it's just a reality for a lot of people that they do have two nations, and it's almost bigotry to tell them they don't.

In an ideal world I think it would be great if players could play anzac tests for nz or australia, play origin for wherever they have ties, and then when world cup rolls around they're free to represent their struggling ancestral nation. THIS would be best for the game. The anzac tests have the best vs the best, origin has the best vs the best, and then the world cup is as evened out as possible. All good things.