Strange new Format thoughts

[The Great Dane]

going by what you just wrote its sounds like NRL is struggling to develop its kids.....let alone help us develop lol

so how about the NRL just worries about sorting out its reserve grade...

The problem isn't developing the kids it's keeping them in the sport once all the spaces in the NRL are full.

Many kids that are perfectly good players, that wouldn't be out of place in the NRL/lower leagues are leaving rugby league really early (18-20) because there isn't enough room for them in the big leagues.

What The Showstopper is suggesting is that maybe the NRL should help these kids find places in Britain and France as it would be mutually beneficial as we'd keep these kids that we have no room for here in the game and it'd give you lot a large source of cheap high quality players that you could use to help fill your competitions with high quality players on a stricter budget.

 

[roughyedspud]

no thanks....we aren't your reserve grade...

 

[CC_Roosters]

The problem isn't developing the kids it's keeping them in the sport once all the spaces in the NRL are full.

Many kids that are perfectly good players, that wouldn't be out of place in the NRL/lower leagues are leaving rugby league really early (18-20) because there isn't enough room for them in the big leagues.

What The Showstopper is suggesting is that maybe the NRL should help these kids find places in Britain and France as it would be mutually beneficial as we'd keep these kids that we have no room for here in the game and it'd give you lot a large source of cheap high quality players that you could use to help fill your competitions with high quality players on a stricter budget.

I don't think sending lots of Holden cup players to other countries is the answer. The best help the ARLC is financial aid from its future fund and guidance in terms of setup and coaching particularly in France.

 

[The Great Dane]

no thanks....we aren't your reserve grade...

I'm not suggesting that, I'm simply suggesting that players that there is no room for in Australia and NZ (where the situation is even worse) be relocated into British and French competitions where they could be used to help to raise the level of the lower competitions (particularly in the Celtic nations and France) instead of leaving the sport.

Once they're settled into the system over there it's very unlikely that any of the NRL clubs will take an interest in them unless they make waves in the ESL, so no it wouldn't be like us using British systems as reserve grades as it's incredibly unlikely that many of them will be offered contracts in Australia or NZ as they have already failed to get contracts here.

All we (Aus and NZ clubs) would stand to gain from an arrangement like this would be to keep as many kids in the game as possible instead of all of them going over to RU, where you would stand to gain possibly a large amount of high quality players that could be strategically placed into competitions to grow the competitiveness of your competitions thus making it easier for you to develop more experienced, better players faster.

You'd basically be getting a free depth boost, that's it.

Seriously blokes like Quade Cooper, James O'Conner and other big names in RU could maybe have been kept in RL using an agreement like this, so were not talking about useless hacks, just guys we couldn't fit in the system down here.

 

[deal.with.it]

How about u20s players go back to their local CRL league and help bring country footy out of the doldrums.

 

[roughyedspud]

I'm not suggesting that, I'm simply suggesting that players that there is no room for in Australia and NZ (where the situation is even worse) be relocated into British and French competitions where they could be used to help to raise the level of the lower competitions (particularly in the Celtic nations and France) instead of leaving the sport.
.

the thing is we don't need your kids to help raise the level of the lower competitions...our guys need a livable wage and full time training...which they are set to receive thanks to a sizable club grants and £800k-ish salary cap...



and again...if you lot are having issues with losing players thats your issue to fix by sorting out your reserve grade cos its a mess at the moment....sending them here is'nt the answer..

 

[CC_Roosters]

the thing is we don't need your kids to help raise the level of the lower competitions...our guys need a livable wage and full time training...which they are set to receive thanks to a sizable club grants and £800k-ish salary cap...



and again...if you lot are having issues with losing players thats your issue to fix by sorting out your reserve grade cos its a mess at the moment....sending them here is'nt the answer..

Tbh I could see some benefit of a managed placement scheme where they would subsidise players to go overseas to go to UK clubs outside the SL and definitely in France, Italy, usa and other developing comps. But this should only have limited places each season. This along with an international 9's circuit and finally sorting out a permanent structure down the tiers in aus, nz and eng is the best way to retain talent globally

 

[Bovrick]

The problem isn't developing the kids it's keeping them in the sport once all the spaces in the NRL are full.

Many kids that are perfectly good players, that wouldn't be out of place in the NRL/lower leagues are leaving rugby league really early (18-20) because there isn't enough room for them in the big leagues.

What The Showstopper is suggesting is that maybe the NRL should help these kids find places in Britain and France as it would be mutually beneficial as we'd keep these kids that we have no room for here in the game and it'd give you lot a large source of cheap high quality players that you could use to help fill your competitions with high quality players on a stricter budget.

Unlike a lot of other supporters in the UK, I'd love for an increase in player depth over here, wherever it comes from - but then I care about quality far more than where players come from.

However, if player production is far exceeding demand over there, surely that means the league is crying out for an increase in that demand, ie expansion? I mean you guys are much less of a basket case, surely using these players to up support in new areas (returning the cycle of increased player numbers) will be used more efficiently over there (WA/NZ/Vic/SA/PNG/Pacific and beyond)?

 

[The Great Dane]

However, if player production is far exceeding demand over there, surely that means the league is crying out for an increase in that demand, ie expansion? I mean you guys are much less of a basket case, surely using these players to up support in new areas (returning the cycle of increased player numbers) will be used more efficiently over there (WA/NZ/Vic/SA/PNG/Pacific and beyond)?

I completely agree, but it's a bit more complex then that.

Though we definitely have the cattle to support a few more teams we simply don't have many areas either prepared to support a team or in an area where we need a team.

We could support about four more teams within the next few years if we wanted to, there'd be an initial drop in competitiveness and we may need to dip into the ESL (or dare I say it, Super Rugby) for some more experienced players to lead the less experienced new players around, but again that would pass as the new clubs settled in got their juniors pathways all sorted out.

But the problem with that is that we would struggle to support 4 new clubs on top of the struggling clubs that we already have and we don't even have four areas ready to support new clubs anyway, we've only really got three (Perth, Brisbane and Wellington).

And that's without even getting into the shall we say politics, of the clubs not wanting to split the pie with anymore new clubs and all the unstable clubs that we need to get into order as well.

The NRL will expand before 2020, but it'll only admit two teams and even then at current growth rates we'll still have an excess, so why not send them somewhere where they continue to make a go of playing RL (instead of jumping to RU or just not playing sport at all) and be helpful to the game as a whole as they're doing it I say.

 

[Bovrick]

I completely agree, but it's a bit more complex then that.

...

The NRL will expand before 2020, but it'll only admit two teams and even then at current growth rates we'll still have an excess, so why not send them somewhere where they continue to make a go of playing RL (instead of jumping to RU or just not playing sport at all) and be helpful to the game as a whole as they're doing it I say.

Thanks for the look into things, I guess it is hard to see much detail from so far away.

On the last point, that would be fine by me, even if it was a short term boost to our player numbers (players coming over, we keep them warm before they head back to take places at new clubs) and so keep up the quality of play, and keep down wages of players. But unfortunately the politics over here, the aversion to competition from overseas, is just as much of a block too.

 

[The Great Dane]

Thanks for the look into things, I guess it is hard to see much detail from so far away.

On the last point, that would be fine by me, even if it was a short term boost to our player numbers (players coming over, we keep them warm before they head back to take places at new clubs) and so keep up the quality of play, and keep down wages of players. But unfortunately the politics over here, the aversion to competition from overseas, is just as much of a block too.

This doesn't make any sense to me, good players are good players as long as they abide by the law and play to the best of their abilities ever week who gives a sh!t where they came from, their history or where they may end up going in their careers.

We see a similar sort of attitude over here according to state lines, the NSWRL are reluctant to let 'their' players play in the Qcup and vice versa. You should have seen the tantrum that the NSWRL had about us (the Raiders) working with Souths-Logan (a Brisbane based team) a few years ago, we had to put a 20 year old partnership old hold because of it, luckily that decision has been overturned by the ARLC.

As a person from outside of NSW and Queensland and without any allegiances to either, I can say that SOO has a lot to answer for when it comes to the state of the game down here and many of the prejudices with in the game.

 

[hutch]

So no difference in the promotion-relegation between the championship and championship 1?

 

[roughyedspud]

no...still 2up,2down....

 

[nadera78]

At the end of 2015, when the first middle eight sees the 4 SL teams get back into SL for the following season, we'll have people calling for change. It's what happens in RL.

The main issue is that we don't have enough money, but these proposals do nothing to change that. That's why it's doomed to failure.

 

[roughyedspud]

lets see what funding the championship get before its doomed......sure the first year or 2 the super league teams will all get promoted..thats a given...


but after a couple of years of solid funding the upsets will come...

 

[siv]

At the end of 2015, when the first middle eight sees the 4 SL teams get back into SL for the following season, we'll have people calling for change. It's what happens in RL.

The main issue is that we don't have enough money, but these proposals do nothing to change that. That's why it's doomed to failure.

But you have to be good enough to get promoted

But this middle 8 will bring money and more games so the bottom 4 can improve

 

[CC_Roosters]

I tend to agree with the above sentiments. Initially it will most likely be the bottom 4 SL teams retaining their spot but after a few years i can see it becoming a lot more fluid with a lot of "yoyo" clubs. I still thing the best outcome from this is that 2nd (and 3rd tier) clubs can sell themselves to investors by saying that they have a direct route to the top tier of the game with the exposure that brings. Without p and r basically 20 odd clubs where at a dead end in terms of as far as they could go and the revenue they could raise.

In my mind everyone but Leeds, Wigan, Wire and Saints will go into the season without doubt about not making the top 8.

 

[deluded pom?]

In my mind everyone but Leeds, Wigan, Wire and Saints will go into the season without doubt about not making the top 8.

Huddersfield?

 

[The Showstopper]

no thanks....we aren't your reserve grade...

Your competition would struggle to beat most NSW Cup teams here. You are in denial. We have origin players running around in reserve grade in some instances. I want the game to thrive in the UK as does any proper supporter of the game. I actually wanted England to win the WC because it would create the headlines the game needs in England and Europe. It is astounding how poorly promoted the game is in England but it is the press and it's obssession with FOOTBALL that kills it. You would know as a supporter over there yourself. The 'working class game' getting treated as a second rate citizen.

 

[WireMan]

Huddersfield?

Nah, Yorkshire sh*te. The future of RL is the red rose... ;-)



In all seriousness though, my main to questions with the new system is:
1) Is this going to make the comp more competitive or are the top teams going to get better?
Now the top clubs get to budget for a bigger salary cap and more "bigger" games.

2) Is the league going to mean anything? At the moment it means naff all, soon it is going to mean less as instead of qualifying for a cup comp at the end of the year it is going to be to qualify for a league to qualify for a cup comp at the end of the year.

Lower clubs points are going to get wiped so the smaller clubs games are even more meaningless than top clubs. This means it will be even harder to grow.


I would wipe all points at the end of the first league. The winner of that league gets a proper trophy, not some sh*ty shield. Then in the next round every club has a chance. For a final, 1 v 2.