Eels Appoint Brad Arthur as Head Coach (Part Deux)

[Someone]

Its not rocket science. You have to build pressure first (safe play, good kicking game, defend strong, force turnover/s) before you can stretch the defence play off the cuff.

 

[Avenger]

Dunno anything about it mate. Can you elaborate?

Basically everyone stands deep including the forwards behind the halfback. A forward also plays behind the line just like Cayless did in 09 and Kasiano in 2012. The focus is on quick play the balls and plenty of dummy half running with the dummy half usually touching the ball twice in a set move. Offloading with a wave like formation is the attacking strategy. The problem is if you drop the ball and the large area to defend between your broad and sliding defending line and the fullback.

 

[spiderdan]

I think turning over possession genuinely isn't worth the risk of chasing an advantage by using the ball.

i disagree. playing a structure that makes the opposition work more in defence tires the opposition out more. that's not to say the whole team should constantly be pushing things on every touch but just belting the ball up until you get something at the opposition red zone puts minimal strain on the opposition meaning they won't tire as quickly.

Its not rocket science. You have to build pressure first (safe play, good kicking game, defend strong, force turnover/s) before you can stretch the defence play off the cuff.

safe play? that's one problem with nrl coaches now which is what i have said elsewhere. everyone wanting to play safe. it's a mindset that was derived from studying gridiron tactics where teams will use a running back to cart the ball up on downs because there's less chance of turnovers. the problem is in gridiron you have four plays to go 10 yards then the down (tackle) count restarts. in nrl it's 6 plays to do something and that's it. the transfer of tactics doesn't apply (in union though it is very applicable).

you can build pressure by stretching a defensive line. when you have the ball you should be making the opposition work to adjust to what you do. if all you are doing is safe play and carting the ball up, the opposition tend to squeeze the line toward the ruck and only the defenders in line with the ball tend to move up while the rest of the team casually meaners back of the 10m mark for the next play.

if you start stretching out your attacking line then the defence needs to stretch to accommodate. a longer stretched defensive line means more room to make breaks in the middle. roosters did it very well a few years back when they played a scrum base of pearce, carney and anasta. all three had the ability to get from one side of the field to the other in a few passes. it helped create plenty of gaps through the middle of the field.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

i disagree. playing a structure that makes the opposition work more in defence tires the opposition out more. that's not to say the whole team should constantly be pushing things on every touch but just belting the ball up until you get something at the opposition red zone puts minimal strain on the opposition meaning they won't tire as quickly.

I think every team shifts the ball before the line. Even us under Kearney when we were playing 'one out shit'. Obviously a hit up by the second rower off the half is still just a hit up, but the principle of moving the defence around is there.

But a couple of (low risk) long passes before the line isn't the kind of exciting play I was talking about.

 

[Chipmunk]

i disagree. playing a structure that makes the opposition work more in defence tires the opposition out more. that's not to say the whole team should constantly be pushing things on every touch but just belting the ball up until you get something at the opposition red zone puts minimal strain on the opposition meaning they won't tire as quickly.

safe play? that's one problem with nrl coaches now which is what i have said elsewhere. everyone wanting to play safe. it's a mindset that was derived from studying gridiron tactics where teams will use a running back to cart the ball up on downs because there's less chance of turnovers. the problem is in gridiron you have four plays to go 10 yards then the down (tackle) count restarts. in nrl it's 6 plays to do something and that's it. the transfer of tactics doesn't apply (in union though it is very applicable).

you can build pressure by stretching a defensive line. when you have the ball you should be making the opposition work to adjust to what you do. if all you are doing is safe play and carting the ball up, the opposition tend to squeeze the line toward the ruck and only the defenders in line with the ball tend to move up while the rest of the team casually meaners back of the 10m mark for the next play.

if you start stretching out your attacking line then the defence needs to stretch to accommodate. a longer stretched defensive line means more room to make breaks in the middle. roosters did it very well a few years back when they played a scrum base of pearce, carney and anasta. all three had the ability to get from one side of the field to the other in a few passes. it helped create plenty of gaps through the middle of the field.

You still have to go forward first before you go sideways. If you are just moving the ball around sideways before going forward you're really going no where.

When we learn to go forward first we will win alot more games

 

[spiderdan]

You still have to go forward first before you go sideways. If you are just moving the ball around sideways before going forward you're really going no where.

When we learn to go forward first we will win alot more games

the ball travels faster when it's thrown than when it's carted. even faster by comparison to a player that's moving laterally. you're more likely to make a break leading a player through a half gap with a pass than just handing it off to a guy running at a brick wall. over the last 15 years the thinking behind coaching has dropped off significantly.

you don't need to go forward first. you need to go where you think the play will open up. it may be forward. it may be laterally. it may be whatever to set something up for three plays down the track or to do something right then.

going forward first is just one of those nrl cliches everyone has glomed on to.

ps. the next cliche i am expecting is for someone to start yapping on about "the 14th man" in the aftermath of seattle in the nfl superbowl with their 12th man. robbie slater has used it in the soccer and some kiwi peanut used it in the super rugby the other day with the 16th man. we get it. you watched superbowl week on espn.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I didn't see it. Were they referring to the ref or the fans?

 

[Someone]

you cant score off every play the ball. you have build pressure and have a mindset of patience. safe play is understanding you're deep in your territory and must get to your kick, or understand that a clever kick in behind on the 4th is better than throwing a speculator into the 3rd row.

winning is an 80 minute process.

 

[Chipmunk]

the ball travels faster when it's thrown than when it's carted. even faster by comparison to a player that's moving laterally. you're more likely to make a break leading a player through a half gap with a pass than just handing it off to a guy running at a brick wall. over the last 15 years the thinking behind coaching has dropped off significantly.

you don't need to go forward first. you need to go where you think the play will open up. it may be forward. it may be laterally. it may be whatever to set something up for three plays down the track or to do something right then.

going forward first is just one of those nrl cliches everyone has glomed on to.

ps. the next cliche i am expecting is for someone to start yapping on about "the 14th man" in the aftermath of seattle in the nfl superbowl with their 12th man. robbie slater has used it in the soccer and some kiwi peanut used it in the super rugby the other day with the 16th man. we get it. you watched superbowl week on espn.

The ball also travels faster and further when you kick it, so why dont you just train someone who can kick a ball 80 metres on the first tackle and that way you will always have the better field position.

It's a tactic, doesnt mean it would work.

A tactic of not going forward first might work in junior football, when you have bigger and faster players in general than your opposition, but I cannot see it working in the exceptionally defensive drilled NRL.

Do you have any examples of this being tried in elite level NRL and working?

 

[spiderdan]

The ball also travels faster and further when you kick it, so why dont you just train someone who can kick a ball 80 metres on the first tackle and that way you will always have the better field position.

It's a tactic, doesnt mean it would work.

A tactic of not going forward first might work in junior football, when you have bigger and faster players in general than your opposition, but I cannot see it working in the exceptionally defensive drilled NRL.

Do you have any examples of this being tried in elite level NRL and working?

roosters 2010, broncos 92,93 and to some extent parra/knights 2001 just off the top of my head.

 

[spiderdan]

you cant score off every play the ball. you have build pressure and have a mindset of patience. safe play is understanding you're deep in your territory and must get to your kick, or understand that a clever kick in behind on the 4th is better than throwing a speculator into the 3rd row.

winning is an 80 minute process.

yes i know. this guy said...

you don't need to go forward first. you need to go where you think the play will open up. it may be forward. it may be laterally. it may be whatever to set something up for three plays down the track or to do something right then.

 

[Maroubra Eel]

You guys know you're shit.

 

[spiderdan]

You guys know you're shit.

yes we are.

 

[Chipmunk]

roosters 2010, broncos 92,93 and to some extent parra/knights 2001 just off the top of my head.

All these teams all went forward first before doing anything with the ball.

Newcastle in the 2001 grand final all they did initially was kept going forward.

What were Lazarus and Gee and co doing for the Broncos in 92/93 if they werent going forward??

All these two, like all successful NRL teams, all went forward with the ball first before doing anything else.

 

[Someone]

You guys know you're shit.

:lol:

 

[Haynzy]

Shitter then what?

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

you don't need to go forward first. you need to go where you think the play will open up. it may be forward. it may be laterally. it may be whatever to set something up for three plays down the track or to do something right then.

going forward first is just one of those nrl cliches everyone has glomed on to.

.

I think you are conflating some different arguments here. The point is to get the defense on the back foot at the time the ball is played. It is true that 'going forward' doesn't necessarily mean running one pass off the ruck a la the old days.....but it does mean running forward with purpose. That may be more than one pass of the ruck...but early in most tackled counts playing basketball is not productive.

 

[The Phelan Folly]

I think you are conflating some different arguments here. The point is to get the defense on the back foot at the time the ball is played. It is true that 'going forward' doesn't necessarily mean running one pass off the ruck a la the old days.....but it does mean running forward with purpose. That may be more than one pass of the ruck...but early in most tackled counts playing basketball is not productive.

Conflating?? Whose swallowed a dictionary then?
Are you trying to be smarter than Pou?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

The word is 'inflating'. Come on guys, switch on.

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Conflating?? Whose swallowed a dictionary then?
Are you trying to be smarter than Pou?

No, I'd just had a few drinks after work, and watched a snarky chick fall off her chair before 6pm.

I might be smarter than Pou, but then again I might not be. I could also sit on the fence like a smug bastard.