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Who do you want to be next to re-sign?

Who do you want to be re-signed next?

  • John Folau

    Votes: 25 51.0%
  • David Gower

    Votes: 29 59.2%
  • Luke Kelly

    Votes: 1 2.0%
  • FuiFui Moimoi

    Votes: 1 2.0%
  • Joseph Paulo

    Votes: 7 14.3%
  • Vai Toutai

    Votes: 2 4.1%
  • Ken Sio

    Votes: 13 26.5%
  • Ben Smith

    Votes: 2 4.1%

  • Total voters
    49

Joshuatheeel

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
19,611
Yep. More of a centre than Folau. John Folau is almost 110kg, his future is on the wing or at edge forward. Centre is too difficult a position in defence to play at that size, unless the player is an absolute freak of nature.

And Folau isn't.

What about Vai , he is a powerful runner and is a big boy but seems to lack some skill for the wing. I reckon he could be turned into an edge forward. But it seems we have to many options to bother with it.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
85,094
What about Vai , he is a powerful runner and is a big boy but seems to lack some skill for the wing. I reckon he could be turned into an edge forward. But it seems we have to many options to bother with it.

Toutai is a problematic player for that reason. He is a strong runner of the ball and fairly quick, but he has too many defensive issues to be suited to ether centre or wing.
 

oldmancraigy

Coach
Messages
11,397
I wonder how much of Toutai's defensive issues are bred, and how many are taught? He just plants his feet and grabs (Joseph Paulo is a big time plant and grabber too) --> but we were full of plant and grabbers the last few seasons. One has to wonder if they could have the rubbish coached out (or if it is too late and the habit has established itself?)
 

I bleed blue & gold

First Grade
Messages
8,833
According to the Recruitment and Retention update that was sent out last year, Vai was off contract at the end of last season.

So maybe we re-signed him for 2014 on a one year deal or something.
 
Messages
19,173
I'm yet to see anything 'irreplaceable' from Sio, so if we re-sign him it needs to be at a sensible price. Otherwise we're just chewing up flexibility for future seasons. Wing will not be the position that decides whether we progress or not.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
85,094
I wonder how much of Toutai's defensive issues are bred, and how many are taught? He just plants his feet and grabs (Joseph Paulo is a big time plant and grabber too) --> but we were full of plant and grabbers the last few seasons. One has to wonder if they could have the rubbish coached out (or if it is too late and the habit has established itself?)

I don't think there's anything wrong with Toutai's tackling technique - he knows how to hit. It's his decision making and lateral movement that seem to be the problem.

Agreed Paulo has defensive issues, but planting one's feet is necessary at some stage of completing a front-on tackle. The trick is getting your feet in the right position in the first place. His footwork is fine; he lacks strength and aggression.

To compare him with two similar sized players who also defend in the middle:

Paulo: 265 tackles, 16 ineffective, 16 missed
Fensom: 326 tackles, 11 ineffective, 5 missed
Harrison: 272 tackles, 10 ineffective, 15 missed

Fensom also managed more tackles than Paulo and Ash Harrison, despite playing one less game. Harrison played one game in the halves, making 18 tackles, 0 ineffective, 0 missed.

So we can see Fensom is far superior to both Paulo and Harrison. Between the latter two, their stats are comparable, with Harrison's fewer ineffective tackles likely down to playing in a side with taller, stronger props helping wrap the ball up (something Fensom also benefits from). There isn't much between Paulo's defensive stats and those of Ashley Harrison.

But Harrison is retiring this year. :eek:
 
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Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
85,094
I'm yet to see anything 'irreplaceable' from Sio, so if we re-sign him it needs to be at a sensible price. Otherwise we're just chewing up flexibility for future seasons. Wing will not be the position that decides whether we progress or not.

Agreed we probably shouldn't re-sign Ken Sio even though he is (currently) in our top two wingers, but regarding the importance of the position, my best new mate Brian Smith said:

I would suggest more NRL matches are directly LOST or WON by wingers than any other position in 2013.

He also has this excellent article about wingers, with specific comment about Radradra and Toutai: http://www.smithyspeaks.com.au/every-team-must-have-2-of-them/
 
Messages
19,173
Agreed we probably shouldn't re-sign Ken Sio even though he is (currently) in our top two wingers, but regarding the importance of the position, my best new mate Brian Smith said:



He also has this excellent article about wingers, with specific comment about Radradra and Toutai: http://www.smithyspeaks.com.au/every-team-must-have-2-of-them/

Good article. Wingers are certainly involved in those crucial incidents quite often. But the relevant comparison is 'how many times out of 10 would the star winger do better / worse than a competent NRL winger'. Even the best drop the ball sometimes, and even the worst occasionally fluke a great take.

Anyway, they're certainly not irrelevant in general. But you have to have the guys inside them doing their thing for them to be effective (which I guess is pretty obvious).
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
85,094
Good article. Wingers are certainly involved in those crucial incidents quite often. But the relevant comparison is 'how many times out of 10 would the star winger do better / worse than a competent NRL winger'. Even the best drop the ball sometimes, and even the worst occasionally fluke a great take.

Anyway, they're certainly not irrelevant in general. But you have to have the guys inside them doing their thing for them to be effective (which I guess is pretty obvious).

I would say that statement is more true of centres than wingers, as far as relying on team mates for opportunities to shine.
 

Parraren

Bench
Messages
4,100
To be honest I wouldn't lose any sleep if they all left.

The best approach to take with this bunch is to see if someone better is available to replace them with for the same or less money on the cap.

The above does not apply to Fui and Ben Smith who are both definitely not to be re-signed.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
85,094
To be honest I wouldn't lose any sleep if they all left.

The best approach to take with this bunch is to see if someone better is available to replace them with for the same or less money on the cap.

Someone better is certain to cost more unless it's an internal promotion.

The best we can hope for is to get someone 'about as good' for less money. Which will also come from internal promotions.
 

natheel

Coach
Messages
12,137
Gower and Folau were my choices but i was torn between Sio and Folau. Mainly due to the fact i think Folau has more mongrel in him and his size will help on the wing like Semi. But i'd like us to keep Sio but for a reasonable price (i don't think clubs would throw much at him anyway) he is a great finisher and is our most experienced winger so losing him would bite us in the arse as we would have to start fresh next year with a rookie winger.
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
Gower. Haven't seen John Folau play so can't really comment there, but I reckon Gower is just a late bloomer with a great work ethic who could be handy to keep around for another couple of years. He's got the attitude most of our other forwards have lacked in recent seasons and is making higher potential players like Allgood and Lussick look very ordinary which is a kick up the backside to them, wouldn't cost the world either.
 
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