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Does Brad Arthur deserve the hype?

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
56,108
That's why we have seffa,degois and peats on at the same time

I'm not sure what your point is...

My point is that it is physically more exhausting tackling a Mannah-type, but mentally more exhausting tackling a Junior Paulo-type.
 

souths_pride

Juniors
Messages
1,155
This is great mate, but you've got to have the players who can deliver an instructed game plan for 80 mins like that. Last time I looked Cooper Cronk played for Melbourne, not Parra.

You're taking the piss if you think the players Parra have currently in the organising roles can stick to a game plan like that.

I actually doubt that Sandow or Norman could actually read and fully comprehend what you've written just there, let alone being able to implement it all.

We're good at the moment at unstructured short side raids. We need to perfect this before we more onto simple stuff like you're suggesting.

I think Parra can play to a game plan with the players that they have; every team can! The trick is to identify and implement a game plan that suits the players that the team currently has. This is where the coach earns his money! At present, it just looks like your players aren't capable of playing to a game plan because there isn't one; its just a mish-mash of various strategies and styles that has caused everyone in the team to become confused and unsure of what their role is and subsequently, look ordinary.

I selected the Bulldogs template because its such a simple, yet effective game plan to implement and doesn't require the players in it to be overly skillful. In actual fact, I think the majority of players in Parramatta's squad are far more naturally gifted than Canterbury's. I'd be willing to bet you, that if you offered Manu Ma'u to Des Hasler he would give you any one of his forwards in return! Like I said, your forward pack is the most improved in the competition and is more than capable of pushing up quickly to maintain pressure on the opposition when they are working the ball of their own goal line - you guys did it against Souths!

Corey Norman and Chris Sandow are at least the equals of Reynolds and Hodkinson, maybe a bit more inconsistent but nevertheless, far more capable of winning a game than the Canterbury halves. In terms of whats required of them - playing the Canterbury way would simplify and and clarify their roles far more than what they are doing now. Kicking the ball low and to the corners, throwing minimal risk passes and looking to put forwards into a hole from first or second receiver is not exactly the most difficult of things to execute. Add to that a hooker who has the ability to select the right play at the right time and has organisation attributes and you'll be more than a handful.
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
16,148
I think Parra can play to a game plan with the players that they have; every team can! The trick is to identify and implement a game plan that suits the players that the team currently has. This is where the coach earns his money! At present, it just looks like your players aren't capable of playing to a game plan because there isn't one; its just a mish-mash of various strategies and styles that has caused everyone in the team to become confused and unsure of what their role is and subsequently, look ordinary.

I selected the Bulldogs template because its such a simple, yet effective game plan to implement and doesn't require the players in it to be overly skillful. In actual fact, I think the majority of players in Parramatta's squad are far more naturally gifted than Canterbury's. I'd be willing to bet you, that if you offered Manu Ma'u to Des Hasler he would give you any one of his forwards in return! Like I said, your forward pack is the most improved in the competition and is more than capable of pushing up quickly to maintain pressure on the opposition when they are working the ball of their own goal line - you guys did it against Souths!

Corey Norman and Chris Sandow are at least the equals of Reynolds and Hodkinson, maybe a bit more inconsistent but nevertheless, far more capable of winning a game than the Canterbury halves. In terms of whats required of them - playing the Canterbury way would simplify and and clarify their roles far more than what they are doing now. Kicking the ball low and to the corners, throwing minimal risk passes and looking to put forwards into a hole from first or second receiver is not exactly the most difficult of things to execute. Add to that a hooker who has the ability to select the right play at the right time and has organisation attributes and you'll be more than a handful.

The team has played virtually the same way for the last 3 or 4 coaches. I find it hard to believe that all of them had similar philisophies.

I find it hard to believe that the coach is the one who is encouraging or implementing a "mish-mash of various strategies and styles" as you've suggested. This would indicate to me that the coach is pretty poor. I'd suggest it's not the coach who is poor and it's the key players instucted to implement the required game plan that are causing the issue.
 

souths_pride

Juniors
Messages
1,155
The team has played virtually the same way for the last 3 or 4 coaches. I find it hard to believe that all of them had similar philisophies.

I find it hard to believe that the coach is the one who is encouraging or implementing a "mish-mash of various strategies and styles" as you've suggested. This would indicate to me that the coach is pretty poor. I'd suggest it's not the coach who is poor and it's the key players instucted to implement the required game plan that are causing the issue.

Again I don't mean to disrespect your club, but Parramatta doesn't exactly have a great history of picking good coaches. Ricky Stuart and Stephen Kearney before him were both hopeless - in particular Kearney! I can't believe how New Zealand got the chocolates over Australia in the four nations - they were just throwing the ball around and hoping for the best. As for Brad Arthur being a good coach - well this is what this thread is meant to be about. As for the mish-mash of systems - that is was more directed at the Titans game on the weekend. This season, it could be argued that Brad Arthur is still trying to find a system and a style that suits the players that he has got. The loss of Jarryd Hayne has largely contributed to that as you relied on him so heavily to come up with something when you had the footy.
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
16,148
Again I don't mean to disrespect your club, but Parramatta doesn't exactly have a great history of picking good coaches. Ricky Stuart and Stephen Kearney before him were both hopeless - in particular Kearney! I can't believe how New Zealand got the chocolates over Australia in the four nations - they were just throwing the ball around and hoping for the best. As for Brad Arthur being a good coach - well this is what this thread is meant to be about. As for the mish-mash of systems - that is was more directed at the Titans game on the weekend. This season, it could be argued that Brad Arthur is still trying to find a system and a style that suits the players that he has got. The loss of Jarryd Hayne has largely contributed to that as you relied on him so heavily to come up with something when you had the footy.

I think we've played differently in the last 2 weeks than we did at times in the first 4 weeks. To start with we're no longer competing enough in the play the ball area. In the past few seasons we have been attrocious at competing around the play the ball, but we've had a Plan B to fall back on to get us some wins. Unfortunately Plan B has gone to the NFL and we're back to the same inconsistent forward performances that have plagued this team for years. We've not consistently won the play the ball over the course of a season in over a decade. This issue is so entrenched in this club that it is going to take more than one off season to rectify the problem.

Until we learn to consistently win the play the ball area we can have the best game plan in the world, but it won't do us much good.
 
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emjaycee

Coach
Messages
12,868
Watching the game live on Saturday one of things i mentioned to the guys next to me was that we were not hitting the same in defence as we had when we beat Souths and Manly... we were making ground in defence in those games with quick line speed, hard hits and stopping the offloads.

Didn't happen against Tigers and didnt happen against Titans.
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
16,148
Watching the game live on Saturday one of things i mentioned to the guys next to me was that we were not hitting the same in defence as we had when we beat Souths and Manly... we were making ground in defence in those games with quick line speed, hard hits and stopping the offloads.

Didn't happen against Tigers and didnt happen against Titans.

This was definitely noticable. So was our complete lack of a kick chase.
 

hindy111

Post Whore
Messages
58,526
Hard to play at that intensity for 24 games.You play like that in your big games and in the finals.Otherwise you burn out.Which is what has happend to us.

SPORTS SCIENCE
 

emjaycee

Coach
Messages
12,868
Hard to play at that intensity for 24 games.You play like that in your big games and in the finals.Otherwise you burn out.Which is what has happend to us.

SPORTS SCIENCE

Bullshit.
You have a squad of 25 and a team of 17 for each game so you can play at that intensity EVERY game.

That's what the top sides do.
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
16,148
Yep.
And both of these can be attributed to attitude.

Looked to me as though Sandow was the only one chasing any kicks at all.

Definitely...pretty much the first indicator or attitude on of off is the kick chase.

Defence is all about attitude. We know they can all tackle.
 

souths_pride

Juniors
Messages
1,155
I think we've played differently in the last 2 weeks than we did at times in the first 4 weeks. To start with we're no longer competing enough in the play the ball area. In the past few seasons we have been attrocious at competing around the play the ball, but we've had a Plan B to fall back on to get us some wins. Unfortunately Plan B has gone to the NFL and we're back to the same inconsistent forward performances that have plagued this team for years. We've not consistently won the play the ball over the course of a season in over a decade. This issue is so entrenched in this club that it is going to take more than one off season to rectify the problem.

Until we learn to consistently win the play the ball area we can have the best game plan in the world, but it won't do us much good.

Its funny that you mention the play the ball issues because that another key component of Des Hasler's game plan - he likes having those big forwards of his slow down the play the ball, making the game scrappy, suffocating the life out of opposition forwards. Part of doing that is being willing to concede penalties and trusting your defence enough to keep out the opposition when they go on the attack.

In stating this, I've probably over simplified things. Learning how to win the rucks is a skill; it takes a lot of work and tactical nous - i.e. when and where to hold a player down for a fraction of a second longer, when to attempt to steal the ball, where abouts and how to manage your line speed etc. I feel you've got the players to do it, its just a matter of implementing it and changing the team's focus.
 

Bow_rider

Juniors
Messages
322
Hayne made Arthur, simple as that. He's a cranky little man that is trying to buy a premiership. Massive money for a broken down old ex Manly player for 3 years. IMO overrated as a FG coach. Last year even with Hayne couldn't win one of the last 2 games against lowly rated teams to get into the finals.
 

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