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Bulldog Will Hopoate will not play rugby league on Sundays for religious reasons

steggz

Juniors
Messages
1,410
Faith is gullibility based on the definition of faith, and that is; believing in something without evidence.

1. You cannot prove god is real, therefore the default position must be that a god doesn't exist, until such time as sufficient evidence is provided to prove that a god does exist. Your personal experiences do not count as sufficient evidence as they're subjective experience, and not objective and rational claims that are testable and repeatable.

Not just about my personal experience. For me, it makes the best sense of a number of philosophical questions. You can disagree, but there a number of men and women way more intelligent than either of us who see faith in God as a perfectly reasonable outcome.

2. You would again need to provide proof of these claims. There is no proof outside of the bible that any of the miracles contained within the bible, are infact true. And even if there was, you would still need to provide evidence that such claims are objectively real by testing them. Additionally, Yeshua (yes, that was Jesus' real name), wasn't an exemplary human and infact broke many of gods commandments in the New Testament and also supported slavery.

Not entirely true. Historians such as Josephus (a Jew but not a follower of Jesus) writes of Jesus and His "surprising deeds". Sure, not a categorical list, but word got around about what Jesus was doing. Jesus challenged the presiding understanding of some Old Testament commandments, but there's a difference between that and breaking them. As for Jesus supporting slavery, two things to note. First, slavery then and what we know as slavery are two different things. Second, what do you point to for this support? Paul writes of how slaves should work hard, as if they were directly serving God, but I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say Jesus supported slavery.

3. Again, there is no supporting evidence that the resurrection ever happened. You have eye witness testimony from the bible, but the bible isn't a reliable source of evidence. Without being able to prove a resurrection is possible, the default stance has to be that it didn't happen, and was likely made up and given that the gospels were written decades after the actual events, in some cases 100 years after, it's fair to assume this to be true, as it's the most likely answer given the reality in which we live.

If it didn't happen, there would be a body. There is no way that they could have stolen a body and hidden it for so long that it was never found.

As for the supposed lateness of the writing of the Gospels, they are actually incredibly close to the events, compared to any other historical text from the surrounding times. Mark's Gospel dates to around 60-70AD IIRC, approx. 30-40 years after the main event, Matthew and Luke are in the same ballpark. John is the latest at around 90AD. Closer written evidence than we have for Julius Caesar.

And a bunch of unskilled fishermen don't look for the attention they got from Jewish leaders and Roman soldiers by claiming a man who everyone saw die actually came back from the dead. These men were so sure of Jesus' resurrection that all of them died because of it. Most of them were crucified themselves, some upside down (an even more torturous death). If it didn't happen, they could have said so and been the latest in a list of people who had followed false hopes in the centuries preceding.

What would change your mind about your faith? Is there anything that would convince you that there is no God or that your faith isn't the correct one?

Is there any evidence, other than divine intervention that would change your stance?

Good question. I would be lying if I said I never had doubts. The question will come from time to time, 'What if it's all a lie?' What would change my mind? I don't know, but it would need to be massive.

If you don't mine me asking, what would change your mind about your non-faith? Happy to have that conversation elsewhere if you'd like.
 

kdalymc

Bench
Messages
4,314
Now that this is officially the religion thread full with experts-

Where did Kane's wife come from?
 

duck

Juniors
Messages
2,017
"Jesus was crucified and was definitely dead. Then he got better and went to heaven. Now eat your eggs"
Ricky Gervais 3:16
 
Messages
11,711
At the end of the day the club us happy to allow this and if it's OK by them then it's ok by me. They know him better than most and hopefully it means he plays better when he is in the field.



Fair enough, mate. Hope you're club's not struggling for depth on grand final day.
 

Bretto

Bench
Messages
2,792
The irony! I see a bunch of atheists trying to convince a religious poster that God isn't real.

Where? Certainly not me.

My position is, that until verifiable and objective evidence can be produced to fulfill the burden of proof on a god claim, then the default position is that there is no god. In the same way that the default position on the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or Unicorns, or Leprechauns, or ghosts, or angels is that we reject the claim unless evidence is provided for the positive claim.
 
Messages
11,711
lol yea, I am not religious at all but it seems atheists are getting as preachy as believers these days


Nah, I'd be fine if they kept to themselves. As it stands, the church pays no tax yet have an opinion/influence on governance and discrimate against some tax payers who belong to a minority.
 

billygilmore

Juniors
Messages
1,221
Why would anyone want God to be real, the God of the bible is one of the most disgusting characters I have ever read about.
 

Bretto

Bench
Messages
2,792
Not just about my personal experience. For me, it makes the best sense of a number of philosophical questions. You can disagree, but there a number of men and women way more intelligent than either of us who see faith in God as a perfectly reasonable outcome.

Not entirely true. Historians such as Josephus (a Jew but not a follower of Jesus) writes of Jesus and His "surprising deeds". Sure, not a categorical list, but word got around about what Jesus was doing. Jesus challenged the presiding understanding of some Old Testament commandments, but there's a difference between that and breaking them. As for Jesus supporting slavery, two things to note. First, slavery then and what we know as slavery are two different things. Second, what do you point to for this support? Paul writes of how slaves should work hard, as if they were directly serving God, but I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say Jesus supported slavery.



If it didn't happen, there would be a body. There is no way that they could have stolen a body and hidden it for so long that it was never found.

As for the supposed lateness of the writing of the Gospels, they are actually incredibly close to the events, compared to any other historical text from the surrounding times. Mark's Gospel dates to around 60-70AD IIRC, approx. 30-40 years after the main event, Matthew and Luke are in the same ballpark. John is the latest at around 90AD. Closer written evidence than we have for Julius Caesar.

And a bunch of unskilled fishermen don't look for the attention they got from Jewish leaders and Roman soldiers by claiming a man who everyone saw die actually came back from the dead. These men were so sure of Jesus' resurrection that all of them died because of it. Most of them were crucified themselves, some upside down (an even more torturous death). If it didn't happen, they could have said so and been the latest in a list of people who had followed false hopes in the centuries preceding.

As Sam Harris said...

I mean, this type of faith and thinking is constrained by common sense in every other domain of discourse. Just take for example, the people who think Elvis is still alive. What is wrong with this claim? Why is this claim not vitiating our academic departments and corporations? It's very simple: we haven't passed laws against believing Elvis is still alive. The problem is whenever someone seriously represents his or her belief that Elvis is still alive, on a first date, at a lecture or at a job interview, he or she immediately pays a price in ill concealed laughter and that is a good thing. He or she could then rattle on and say that this is not a scientific claim and it's just a matter of faith, Elvis answers philosophical questions for me, etc.

I mean, this idea that a person needs faith to believe in anything, philosophical or otherwise, fails to reason objectively.
 
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Bretto

Bench
Messages
2,792
Nah, I'd be fine if they kept to themselves. As it stands, the church pays no tax yet have an opinion/influence on governance and discrimate against some tax payers who belong to a minority.

Don't forget the fact that he supports slavery and hates the homos. Why do you think gay marriage still isn't legal in this country?
 

Frederick

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
27,533
On topic, if Hopoate wants to throw potential earnings away in a limited career, all in the name of a figment of his imagination, then that's his problem.

I will say that I've never heard of this happening in the NFL, and they'd have more religious nutters than all of Australian sport combined.
 

dogslife

Coach
Messages
18,597
To sum up this thread

- Not a single bulldogs fan upset
- I don't believe in God and here's why you shouldn't either
 

Bretto

Bench
Messages
2,792
To be fair, if you're not religious, then the default position is atheism. Atheism is a position - lack of belief in gods until such a time that objective and reasonable evidence for a god or gods is supplied. It is not the assertion that a god or gods don't exist, as that position requires a burden of proof.
 

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