Top 17

[Saint_JimmyG]

Nice Team

Gypsy won't be dropped, nor will Aitken be moved to accommodate Dugan.

Nice to talk footy though.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

Dragonssamy 61
Saint Jimmy G thinks he is a key forward in the 10st 7lb team only problem is he is 35 years of age being knocked over by the 10 year olds
Back on track as I posted before I reckon if you were to play a utility a back off the bench (maybe Nighty) would bring a lot more than a Marketo

One wonders if you realise you've metamorphically described yourself as a 10-year-old?

Doubtful.

The IQ level is commensurate of someone of that age, however.

 

[Dragonslayer]

I think our top 17 revolves around 2 people IMO, McInnis and Widdop.

On McInnis, It's not the question of "if" he can play 80mins (everyone can "play" 80), it's just wether he can play 80mins of high intensity football from kick off till final siren. If so, that would free up a spot on the bench for a utility player or another forward, giving us more options.
On Widdop, it's wether he can now direct the team and drive forward. This directly impacts the other half. If both are moving forward then our fortunes may just turn for the better. If not, then we are looking at 2016 all over again, and that would be so no matter who the other half was.

As far as the halves argument, well, it's been stated many times we ain't going outside (in 2017) on what we have. It's pretty much determined that Widdop will be one of the halves combo's, it's the other that's in debate.
Some say we need experience, some say youth, so for mine it's a combo of both at this stage.

IMO, the halves should start as:
Widdop @ 7 - a position he played for with the Storm and in the 4 Nations
Nona @ 6 - Has the experience, passing and kicking games. Can do some freaky things but also can do some dumb things, but this is his time, grasp it with 2 hands or forever perish to the reggies.

Mann has the most potential but I, like some others, am concerned about his kicking game. Needs to show it in the trials or for the Cutters to come into the team.
Field needs some time in the Cutters against men IMO. He will link up with his mate Payne there and see if that combo works well.
McCrone, well for mine he's now a hooker rotation player only. He will be the Cutters Hooker and rotate between him and Robson (yes, I think he will be elevated to the Cutters squad).

 

[DRAGONHEART4]

Dufty
Nene
Duges
Aitken
Nighty
Soward
Widdop
Friz
Thommo
Sims
Packer
Mcginess
Vaughan

De belin
Masoe
Leilua
Havili

 

[The Doc]

If i had my way this is the 17 id now go with...
1. Dufty
2. MacDonald
3. Duges
4. Milne
5. Nighty
6. Widdop
7. Mann / Nona
8. Packer
9. McInnes
10. AhMau
11. Frizz
12. Thomo
13. Simms

14. Mose
15. LeiLua
16. Vaughan
17. Host/Kerr/Sele
Alot obviously depends on availability and fitness etc.
If all played and got through the trials that would be my line up.
I like Aitkens, but i personally would not have him ahead of Milne or Dugan in the centres if Dugan was moved to accomodate Dufty.
If Host/Kerr or Sele stand and deliver in the trials id have them ahead of JDB.
If 2 out of that 3 really stand out id even be willing to drop AhMau to the cutters and promote Vaughan to the starting line up and have 2 out of them on the bench.
If they dont, id put havilli in there in jersey 17.
The 7 will be a good battle between Mann and Nona.
The trials will determine who is the better fit.
We need a revamp... i just hope mary sees this and has the balls to do something about it.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

If i had my way this is the 17 id now go with...
1. Dufty
2. MacDonald
3. Duges
4. Milne
5. Nighty
6. Widdop
7. Mann / Nona
8. Packer
9. McInnes
10. AhMau
11. Frizz
12. Thomo
13. Simms

14. Mose
15. LeiLua
16. Vaughan
17. Host/Kerr/Sele
Alot obviously depends on availability and fitness etc.
If all played and got through the trials that would be my line up.
I like Aitkens, but i personally would not have him ahead of Milne or Dugan in the centres if Dugan was moved to accomodate Dufty.
If Host/Kerr or Sele stand and deliver in the trials id have them ahead of JDB.
If 2 out of that 3 really stand out id even be willing to drop AhMau to the cutters and promote Vaughan to the starting line up and have 2 out of them on the bench.
If they dont, id put havilli in there in jersey 17.
The 7 will be a good battle between Mann and Nona.
The trials will determine who is the better fit.
We need a revamp... i just hope mary sees this and has the balls to do something about it.

Inserting someone with zero NRL experience (Nona) in a crucial position such as halfback is an almighty call...especially when he's more recognised as a five-eighth.

Dugan's future is in the centres, and it is only a matter of 'when' not 'if'.

I like the idea of Mann playing in the halves, but doubt McGregor has the foresight....or the balls... to give him a go. There is a D. Lockyer element to the kid that is yet to be untapped.

Saints' fans have been disappointed with his selections for a while now.

 

[TomRedVRiver]

Inserting someone with zero NRL experience (Nona) in a crucial position such as halfback is an almighty call...especially when he's more recognised as a five-eighth.

Dugan's future is in the centres, and it is only a matter of 'when' not 'if'.

I like the idea of Mann playing in the halves, but doubt McGregor has the foresight....or the balls... to give him a go. There is a D. Lockyer element to the kid that is yet to be untapped.

Saints' fans have been disappointed with his selections for a while now.

I really want Nona to succeed and prove me wrong but I agree completely that it's a huge call to throw him into halfback. At 26 he's never seen a game of First Grade and there is obviously a reason for that. I hope for the team's sake as well as his own that he can make the step up. He needs to start playing consistently and not show up once every few rounds.

Also agree completely that Dugan's future is in the centres, I think even he has come to that realisation and if he gets some decent service from our halves he would be seriously damaging on that right edge. He's a destructive ball runner and with the way the game is changing, fullbacks are almost becoming a second 5/8. That's where Dufty's skill-set comes into play, coupled with his blistering speed, vision and evasion.. He pips Dugan for the fullback role for me.

 

[Dragonslayer]

Inserting someone with zero NRL experience (Nona) in a crucial position such as halfback is an almighty call...especially when he's more recognised as a five-eighth.

Dugan's future is in the centres, and it is only a matter of 'when' not 'if'.

I like the idea of Mann playing in the halves, but doubt McGregor has the foresight....or the balls... to give him a go. There is a D. Lockyer element to the kid that is yet to be untapped.

Saints' fans have been disappointed with his selections for a while now.

Interesting comments:
You state that Nona has zero NRL experience playing half back, yet you would prescribe Mann (who also has zero NRL experience), interesting.
In any case, Nona would more than likely play at 5/8 and Widdop would move to 7. This would also be the case with Mann, who, when he did play as a half, was also a 5/8.
I feel Widdop's journey is more than likely going to be as a 7 with us.

 

[emu62]

Inserting someone with zero NRL experience (Nona) in a crucial position such as halfback is an almighty call...especially when he's more recognised as a five-eighth.

Dugan's future is in the centres, and it is only a matter of 'when' not 'if'.

I like the idea of Mann playing in the halves, but doubt McGregor has the foresight....or the balls... to give him a go. There is a D. Lockyer element to the kid that is yet to be untapped.

Saints' fans have been disappointed with his selections for a while now.

Valid point re- Nona. I guess the pre season trials will give us some idea. IMO Dugan is still a fullback.Not convinced yet he is a centre.Your analogy on Mann i believe is spot on

 

[Dragsters]

Widdop should have moved to 7 when we signed Benji but the coach not only could not see it then but failed to even try when our attack was rudderless for so long.

Should happen but won't.

Mccrone = predictable, safe but wont ingnite the back line.

Nona, has x-factor and can kick but lacks any first grade experience. Im not agsinst trying him but would be in the 6 and I can't see mary moving widdop as above.

For mine Mann is the pick as he has first grade experience, has played well in the halves at Q cup level and has skill.

I hope Field and Payne get plenty of time paired in the Cutters 6 & 7 respectively as I think they are a strong long term option in the top grade. Field is getting some well deserved wraps for his form last season in the 20s but I reckon his combination with Payne was a big part of it.

 

[Junior Dragon]

1. Dugan
2. McDonald
3. Milne
4. Aitken
5. Dufty
6. Mann
7. Widdop
8. Packer
9. McInnes
10. Vaughan
11. Friz
12. Thompson
13. Sims
14. Mose
15. LAM or Host
16. Leilua
17. JDB

Dugan and dufty can switch in attack and defense. I think nightingale is a bit old now (even though is one of my favourite players). Also Mann is too good to leave out. If he doesn't work out give Nona a chance.
Cheers

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

Interesting comments:
You state that Nona has zero NRL experience playing half back, yet you would prescribe Mann (who also has zero NRL experience), interesting.
In any case, Nona would more than likely play at 5/8 and Widdop would move to 7. This would also be the case with Mann, who, when he did play as a half, was also a 5/8.
I feel Widdop's journey is more than likely going to be as a 7 with us.

I'm not taking the piss; my earlier post waa intended to demonstrate that Nona has zero NRL experience and that Mann has a fair bit now (albeit not in the halves).

I advocated Widdop at halfback on Facebook as soon as Marshall was acquired.

Sadly, the 'coach' did not possess the nous to at least give this a chance of succeeding.

(Interestingly but not unsurprisingly, Bennett put GW in the no. 7 jumper for England)

 

[coast_dragons]

Cody walker didn't have any experience either and they took a gamble and even though he was a bit hit and miss at times I saw more hits then misses.

Nona is a very instinctive footballer he plays off the cuff and I don't mind that. Sure he will make errors but Widdop honestly will make a hell of alot more and he is an international.

Nona likes to run with the ball
Has a good passing game
Short kicking game is good he setup plenty of tries for the Cutters outside backs
He's not a bad defender with good help on the inside
He is a confidence player and will gain plenty if just given a shot

Its simple take a gamble the Dragons aren't expected to do anything anyway.

Mary if he had the balls he would just bite the bullet and try it but he won't and thats why he will always be a failure.

Its sad to for such an excellent attacking player and on his day he was unstoppable to become such a clueless and gutless coach very very sad.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

Admittedly I haven't seen much of Nona, but while watching the Cutters beat Mounties in the NSW Cup grand final, I had a flashback of Richie Williams from 10-years ago.

We all know what happened there.

 

[Rocket Rod]

Most teams in the comp in my mind will tend to pick themselves.( if you know what I mean )
Our team seems to have an embarrassment of riches in many positions with quality players, not worldbeaters but quality. If only we had a decent coach that could mould an effective team out of it we could and would surprise all of the haters and doomsayers out there. Let's give Mary the benefit of the doubt at this stage now that he has in my eyes a decent squad and see if he can produce the goods. Time will tell!

 

[coast_dragons]

Admittedly I haven't seen much of Nona, but while watching the Cutters beat Mounties in the NSW Cup grand final, I had a flashback of Richie Williams from 10-years ago.

We all know what happened there.

How on earth you did you come up with this summation.

He is a far better player then Williams and to comapre both lol.

I am glad you admitted you hadn't watched alot of the Cutters games by your comments it certainly showed.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

How on earth you did you come up with this summation.

He is a far better player then Williams and to comapre both lol.

I am glad you admitted you hadn't watched alot of the Cutters games by your comments it certainly showed.

Perhaps my comparison is due to the fact that by age 26, no NRL chased Williams either?

And this is a fair point because Nona is yet to play a single first grade game.

 

[The Doc]

Most teams in the comp in my mind will tend to pick themselves.( if you know what I mean )
Our team seems to have an embarrassment of riches in many positions with quality players, not worldbeaters but quality. If only we had a decent coach that could mould an effective team out of it we could and would surprise all of the haters and doomsayers out there. Let's give Mary the benefit of the doubt at this stage now that he has in my eyes a decent squad and see if he can produce the goods. Time will tell!

Agree 100% that we have a team filled with quality players.
Even the juniors being spoken about for 1st grade, i.e Dufty, LeiLua, Sele, etc could, if properly coached, become top notch players.
We also have youngsters in Milne, Mann, McInness etc that are only still 21 and 22 years of age.
Add the experienced players with some internationals, add the exciting youngsters, and we have a team that is capable of doing anything!
All comes down to coach.
I just dont think mary has the balls to do what needs to be done, and i dont think he has the skill as a coach to do it either.

 

[Old Timer]

Injuries have changed things a bit so I have had a rethink re my top 17.
If the forwards are as good as what we think, then IMO they have to be complimented with a lot of speed in the backs to finish off the opportunities they will create.
The halves have to be able to control the game and get the forwards around the paddock expending as little energy as possible.
That being the case the only person we know, that actually possesses a quality kicking game is Nona, so that surely must secure his selection in the absence of Hutch. So IMO Nona 5/8 & Widdop at half.
In respect of speed in the backs we really only had Mann last year and we have added Mc Donald so that should ensure their selection.
Two players with speed is not enough IMO to hold you own in the NRL top 8 so we need to add another and there is no one faster in the club then Dufty so he needs to be there.
That being the case it starts to force the selection issue in the backs.
Nona in the 6, Widdop in the 7 Mc Donald in the 2 or 5.
Here the problem gets a bit more difficult to work out
Dugan, Dufty & Mann all need a spot IMO.
If Dugan is FB, Dufty must play wing so therefore Mann to LC (he at least is a natural LC) Aitken and Milne to fight for the last spot RC.
If Dufty goes to FB and Dugan to RC and Mann to LC then Milne and Aitken again fight it out for a wing spot unless they both miss out and a specialist winger is brought up.
All of that says to me the best balance in the backs would be
Dugan, Mc Donald, Milne, Mann, Dufty, Nona, Widdop
I feel a bit sad because Nighty is difficult to fit into the equation and Aitken who I really like, misses out as I feel he is not quite as skillfull as Milne
Forwards we will need 10
With Masoe out injured Packer, Mc Innes, Vaughan, Frizzell, Thompson, Leilua, Host, Simms all pick themselves and it leaves De Belin, Havilli, Lam and Kerr fighting for 2 spots and it will be dependant on what way the coach wants to cover off the rotation but I think LAM and Kerr are the most likely to miss out.
Before people start ranting that I have changed my position on several things that were almost not negotiable to me, I want to point out that there have been lots of good points raised on this thread which upon careful consideration have changed my opinion.

 

[Dragon Revival]

We are not going to win games with a popgun attack like we had last year.
Proven matchwinners like Aitken, Dugan, Dufty and Mann must be in our backline so that we score tries. Add MacDonald and Milne to this backline mix. Nightingale and Widdop are over the hill. Field is a matchwinner and can kick goals. Nona has his strong points. Attack has to be our focus and we will
have strong running forwards in Frizell, Packer, Sims, Vaughan, Leilua, Host, and Lewis who are big and fast. There are lesser lights backing them up like Ah Mau De Belin, Masoe and Thompson who can defend but will rarely win games and who rarely have
matchwinning attacking skills.
In 1977 we had strong running forwards like Young, Stone, Starkey,
Young, Wynn, Reddy, Jansen and Beath and we need to promote that type of pack. Watching the Dragons in the early 1970's was boring as they had boring, slow and uninspiring forwards like Keith Maddison, Ted Walton and Peter Fitzgerald and Changa and Smithy were past their prime. It was only when these players moved on that we won premierships in 1977 and 1979 by promoting speed and attack. We need to duplicate the makeup of those teams as much as possible. The 1960's had pacey backs such as Gasnier, King, Langlands, Lumsden and Smith and go ahead forwards like Porter, Provan, Raper, Rasmussen and Ryan who would run for gaps and run through a brick wall. Our 2010 side had a similar
makeup. If we try to emulate the skills and balance of these 14 premiership winning teams we will get there the challenge being to install creative halves and make good coaching decisions.