2nd Test: West Indies tour of New Zealand at Hamilton, Dec 9-13 2017

[ANTiLAG]

NZ declare 8 down with Southee and Taylor set without a tail end slogathon first.

Over 2 days to go - a lil slogathon first would have been nice.

WI need 444.

So was this a deliberate Hesson and KW tactic to not give any hint to WI that they would declare? If so, is this an effective strategy given the sacrifice of runs so as to catch the openers off guard? Powell got out for zero so maybe it has some effective value - but is it worth the lost runs? If NZ hadn't got a wicket - the answer would be a resounding no.

Personally, as a fan, I like the slogathon for both its run vs time value and its entertainment. Of course KW and Hess care lil' for entertainment tho and nor should they. But I do like the fact (if they are) that they're trying new tactics and a 443 run lead ought to be enough so its low risk.

 

[Meth]

Wow. Taylor was choking back the tears there. How fitting, the great Hogan himself was his mentor and he equalled him today. I recall a few years ago people calling for his head. A nice firm F U to those people from Ross today.

Outstanding career. One of the all time great NZ bats.

I have found myself frustrated with Taylor at points- but you are right. Definitely one of the all time greats

 

[Meth]

So was this a deliberate Hesson and KW tactic to not give any hint to WI that they would declare? If so, is this an effective strategy given the sacrifice of runs so as to catch the openers off guard? Powell got out for zero so maybe it has some effective value - but is it worth the lost runs? If NZ hadn't got a wicket - the answer would be a resounding no.

Personally, as a fan, I like the slogathon for both its run vs time value and its entertainment. Of course KW and Hess care lil' for entertainment tho and nor should they. But I do like the fact (if they are) that they're trying new tactics and a 443 run lead ought to be enough so its low risk.

30/2. Great decision to declare IMO

 

[JJ]

I have found myself frustrated with Taylor at points- but you are right. Definitely one of the all time greats

Same here

I think Williamson, Crowe, Turner, Dempster and Donnelly slightly above him, he's next with Sutcliffe

Fine player - will end with a world class record, and seems like a decent bloke - shame the captaincy thing happened - he should never have been made captain, but it (albeit messily) worked out

 

[ANTiLAG]

Same here

I think Williamson, Crowe, Turner, Dempster and Donnelly slightly above him, he's next with Sutcliffe

Dempster and Donelly is a tough sell imo.

 

[JJ]

really? No question IMO that Donnelly was one of the world's best bats - Dempster might be the tougher sell - like Jack Cowie it's not their fault they played when tests were few and far between, and Australia wouldn't play us

That'd be my top 6 though - Dempster, Turner, Williamson, Crowe, Taylor, and Donnelly - probably give JR Reid the gloves (or McCullum) then Hadlee, Vetorri, Cowie, Bond/Boult

 

[hineyrulz]

Just reading A book about the Invincible’s 48 tour Andy Donnelly gets a decent wrap.

 

[hineyrulz]

It boggles the mind how Wagner keeps getting wickets at international level. He’s not quick and does SFA with the ball.

Just bowls bouncers with the angle and keeps getting so called international batsman out.

Pretty much sums up the poor state of batting around the world.

 

[hineyrulz]

And again lol.

Oh dear!!

 

[Mr Angry]

West Indies, one word DUCK!

 

[edabomb]

really? No question IMO that Donnelly was one of the world's best bats - Dempster might be the tougher sell - like Jack Cowie it's not their fault they played when tests were few and far between, and Australia wouldn't play us

That'd be my top 6 though - Dempster, Turner, Williamson, Crowe, Taylor, and Sutcliffe - probably give JR Reid the gloves (or McCullum) then Hadlee, Vetorri, Cowie, Bond/Boult

Depending on conditions I'd be pretty happy having the 4 seamers and leaving out Vetorri.

 

[Eelectrica]

West Indies embracing 4 day test cricket.

 

[2 weeks]

I can't stop laughing at the fact that the Windies have a player named Reefer.

 

[Meth]

Ambris.

He either gets out hit wicket, or hit Wagner

 

[KeepingTheFaith]

It boggles the mind how Wagner keeps getting wickets at international level. He’s not quick and does SFA with the ball.

Just bowls bouncers with the angle and keeps getting so called international batsman out.

Pretty much sums up the poor state of batting around the world.

Even weirder when you look at his career summary and there's no real stand out reason for him averaging under 28 runs per wicket.

Home - 27.91
Away - 27.79

Australia - 23.71
England - 34.52
West Indies - 30.41
Zimbabwe - 17.00
Bangladesh - 23.05
India - 29.12
Sri Lanka - 30.83
Pakistan - 18.11
South Africa - 30.50

He just does it against everyone to some degree.

 

[ANTiLAG]

really? No question IMO that Donnelly was one of the world's best bats - Dempster might be the tougher sell - like Jack Cowie it's not their fault they played when tests were few and far between, and Australia wouldn't play us

That'd be my top 6 though - Dempster, Turner, Williamson, Crowe, Taylor, and Sutcliffe - probably give JR Reid the gloves (or McCullum) then Hadlee, Vetorri, Cowie, Bond/Boult

I don't think you have made poor selections, most people would have a top 20 or 25 NZ ATG test list with a high percentage of the same names as there hasn't been that many world class standouts. Heck 1979/80 was NZ's second ever test series win. But we have enjoyed a bit of a purple patch under the Hesson reign, and Taylor has been a significant part of this with lots of quality runs, even if Safrica and Aus have not been conquered, he and KW put Mitch Johnson into early retirement. Its a shame Ross didn't stay fit last year for Safrica, things might have gone a bit differently but for his injury and rain in the third and first tests. He was making big runs in the ODI series beforehand.

For me, KW, Crowe and Taylor get in the best NZ test XI. So does Hadlee. The openers, allrounders and bowlers can scrap it out. The saddest thing for me is that Ryder always looked more talented to me than Ross. But their approaches off the field obviously differed.

 

[Mr Angry]

16 100's
Average 48

Pretty damn good player.

 

[ANTiLAG]

16 100's
Average 48

Pretty damn good player.

KW, Crowe and Taylor all have 17 tonnes.

 

[hineyrulz]

Even weirder when you look at his career summary and there's no real stand out reason for him averaging under 28 runs per wicket.

Home - 27.91
Away - 27.79

Australia - 23.71
England - 34.52
West Indies - 30.41
Zimbabwe - 17.00
Bangladesh - 23.05
India - 29.12
Sri Lanka - 30.83
Pakistan - 18.11
South Africa - 30.50

He just does it against everyone to some degree.

Really good figures, not sure how he continues to do it but you can’t fault his effort.

 

[Iafeta]

I think he literally bowls a heavy ball that follows batsmen. Completely cramps them up. When you hit the wicket, the impact significantly reduces the pace of the ball but with Wagner I reckon the impact wouldn't be as severe and then he's pretty accurate with it. He never really goes too high with it so he's never a risk for a no ball from it so he can literally keep doing it.

Prior to test cricket, he had a really good record in South Africa and for Otago. And I'm pretty sure he was more of an into the wicket seamer and certainly not a bumper bowler.

The fact his record is pretty good against all comers to me suggests he's highly underrated as he never really gets talked up outside of NZ circles.