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NRL: Lets talk about relocating teams, says QRL boss.

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The Great Dane

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NRL: Let’s talk about relocating teams, says QRL boss.
by Brent Read

Queensland Rugby League chair Bruce Hatcher has placed the rationalisation of Sydney clubs back on the agenda after urging the NRL to reignite the conversation about relocating teams to Adelaide and Perth.

Hatcher raised the issue at a meeting between the ARL Commission and club bosses in Sydney yesterday, reiterating his views to The Australian afterwards as he spoke about the prospect of teams moving before they fall into the financial abyss. Hatcher also revealed the QRL may relax their stance on constitutional reform by being open to having an independent representative on the commission rather than their chairman.

The more contentious issue is the view that some Sydney clubs are on borrowed time.

“I have a personal view that we do need geographic expansion,” Hatcher said. “Every analysis I have done indicates to me that two Sydney clubs could be relocated to say Perth and Adelaide, where they then straddle two markets.

“I did raise the question based on let’s start talking about, let’s start the conversation, don’t keep hiding behind it as if no club is going to relocate.

“I did raise it and I will keep raising it. The counter-punch was that we should have two clubs in Brisbane. I said not necessarily so.

“I think it is inevitable. You can argue all you like about how do you raise the point, but how can you argue against the facts, the realities.

“If it is not inevitable, I would worry about the survival of all those clubs.

“You have to worry about whether they can survive in a diminishing market, or are they prepared to be a bit adventurous, go to a new territory and not only use the advantages they have in that existing market, but open up a brand new market for themselves.

“If you don’t think big, you don’t go anywhere. To me that is strategic. It is thinking a bit beyond the square.”

More than half the clubs in Sydney currently operate at a loss despite receiving grants of more than $12 million from the NRL under the new broadcasting agreement.

Some of those clubs — Parramatta, Canterbury, the Sydney Roosters and Penrith — have the backing of affluent leagues clubs.

Manly rely on private ownership while Cronulla are projected to lose $4 million this year, leaving them to an extent at the mercy of the banks and private lenders.

The NRL has made it clear they will no longer prop up clubs who hit troubled financial waters.

The Australian understands that ARL Commission chairman Peter Beattie reiterated that point at yesterday’s meeting attended by club chief executives and chairs.

It is understood the commission has also ruled out expansion through the addition of new teams, meaning any move to add teams in Brisbane, Perth or Adelaide would have to come via current clubs relocating.

Adelaide and Perth have already shown an appetite for top-level rugby league and the commission will take State of Origin games to both cities over the next two years.

“Broader thought is we have two markets where there is significant activity going on,” Hatcher said. “We choose to go to those arkets with our best products. Why don’t we back it with some strategic thinking and start sewing the seeds for what we can do in the future.”

Along with South Sydney chairman Nick Pappas and Melbourne’s Bart Campbell, Hatcher attended a meeting with Beattie to discuss the issue of constitutional reform, which was put on the backburner last year when the states and clubs failed to agree on the way forward.

One of the key issues was the states’ demand that their chairs — Hatcher and George Peponis — be their representatives on the commission for at least an 18-month period.

It is understood the QRL is willing to revisit that position. That would mean either Hatcher standing down to join the commission or the QRL appointing a representative on their behalf.

Discussions are set to continue but the possibility of the QRL and NSW Rugby League revising their stance represents a significant change in the landscape.

“I know from a Queensland point of view, if we could be offered the opportunity to put our point of view, we would probably forego that,” Hatcher said.

“We think it is much more important to be in there leading the cases that we have for better funding of the grassroots, etc, than being outside the ring and thinking people are representing your interests.

“If you take my case, either I would have to resign as chairman of the QRL and it if were offered take the ARL Commission position, or I would stay as chairman of the QRL and the board would appoint someone independent to represent them.”

One of the other sticking points was the power of veto held by both the clubs and the states.

“That is one that needs to be robustly debated about what it really means,” Hatcher said.

“But if you have the right quality of people on that commission — and when I am talking about that I mean you have to have an understanding of the grassroots and the grassroots has to have a better understanding of NRL clubs so that you’re not getting duplication.

“As long as decisions are being made in the best interests of the whole game, I think everyone is a winner.”

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...s/news-story/b9f211864b443ec1d3a845f12e9c6a2d

There're much better ways of handling the problem, so it's dumb, but I guess that a poor solution is better than no solution...
 

taipan

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I place more credence on any relocation decision from within Sydney,not someone tucked away in Qld.,whose agenda sticks out like Rothfield in a beauty pageant.
 

The Great Dane

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I place more credence on any relocation decision from within Sydney,not someone tucked away in Qld.,whose agenda sticks out like Rothfield in a beauty pageant.

Of course you'd prefer things that way, cause that way the status quo continues in perpetuity...
 

taipan

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Of course you'd prefer things that way, cause that way the status quo continues in perpetuity...


Of course I'd expect your reply in that fashion,shock ,horror.

What I prefer and what actually happens, can be miles apart. I prefer18 teams ,if that's status quo, your maths is stuffed.
If a Sydney team gets relocated ,the decision is up to the Commission ,not Hartcher.
No Sydney club is going to get asssisted again by the NRL.if they go under.Hardly perpetuity.
 

The Great Dane

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7,771
Of course I'd expect your reply in that fashion,shock ,horror.

Yeah cause you've made your stance clear on here a million times: basically expansion is 'great', hell the sport is 'great', but the Sharks come first, if anything effects the Sharks in a negative way then it shouldn't happen, even if it'd be a net positive for the sport and the competition as a whole.

Though obviously you wouldn't articulate it this way your opinion is pretty simple, the NRL is just the NSWRL (effectively a Sydney suburban comp) under another name, the clubs from outside of Sydney can take part but only if they are a 100% net positive to the Sydney clubs or they don't effect the Sydney clubs in any significant way.

What I prefer and what actually happens, can be miles apart. I prefer18 teams ,if that's status quo, your maths is stuffed.

To meet the standards to achieve what you "prefer" are so insurmountably high (that any new expansion club must be successful in almost ever regard from day dot (especially profitability), they can't effect the operations of your club to any measurable degree (especially when it comes to it's 'share' of the broadcast money, and for some reason crowds), and they must 100% provide for themselves in every regard from day dot except that they get the same grant that all NRL clubs get from the NRL) that it is to effectively support the status quo cause under those standards nothing but the status quo is reasonably possible outside of extremely unusual circumstances. I.e. you support expansion in name only, in reality you support only what is beneficial and/or convenient to you and your club.

If a Sydney team gets relocated ,the decision is up to the Commission ,not Hartcher.

Firstly it's not really up to the Commission, but that is an aside and the fact that you think that "the Commission" equals, to quote you-
I place more credence on any relocation decision from within Sydney
is the problem.

You don't see the NRL as the National Rugby League or the ARLC as the Australian Rugby League Commission, you see it as yours ( the Sydney club's), your just happy to let other people play with it too as long as it doesn't effect you.

No Sydney club is going to get asssisted again by the NRL.if they go under.Hardly perpetuity.

Yeah pretty much every RL administration that I can remember has said something similar, then a few months/years later they've propped up a club that's never going to be sustainable in the long term.

BTW, the hypocrisy of the fact that you hold this opinion now that you think the Sharks are safe is another part of the problem, shit I'd bet anything that if the Sharks fell over tomorrow your tune would change again...
 
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taipan

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Yeah cause you've made your stance clear on here a million times: basically expansion is 'great', hell the sport is 'great', but the Sharks come first, if anything effects the Sharks in a negative way then it shouldn't happen, even if it'd be a net positive for the sport and the competition as a whole.

This coming from someone who's team will not be affected one bit.Ivory tower.
Correction expansion to be done but not Crusher style.
The sport is indeed great, you must have little time for it then.
The Shark's come first when I follow them, just like the Raiders come first in your eyes,as it does any supporter of a team.Scoop that's what supporters do.
You're smoking the funny stuff, the Sharks have had more negative situations and headlines, than I've had sleeps.
If the Sharks get flicked so be it,doesn''t mean I'd continue to follow the relocated club .I''d continue to follow International rugby league, which I do now.
Net positive for the sport ,if losing a supporter base and a whiteanting of a strong junior rl area is a positive,then I'll need some convincing.

Though obviously you wouldn't articulate it this way your opinion is pretty simple, the NRL is just the NSWRL (effectively a Sydney suburban comp) under another name, the clubs from outside of Sydney can take part but only if they are a 100% net positive to the Sydney clubs or they don't effect the Sydney clubs in any significant way.

For a start there are 5 out of NSW teams plus throw in Canberra.That means 1/2 are Sydney and one in Newcastle.You may as well say the AFL is a Vic based code,using your analogy.


To meet the standards to achieve what you "prefer" are so insurmountably high (that any new expansion club must be successful in almost ever regard from day dot (especially profitability), they can't effect the operations of your club to any measurable degree (especially when it comes to it's 'share' of the broadcast money, and for some reason crowds), and they must 100% provide for themselves in every regard from day dot except that they get the same grant that all NRL clubs get from the NRL) that it is to effectively support the status quo cause under those standards nothing but the status quo is reasonably possible outside of extremely unusual circumstances. I.e. you support expansion in name only, in reality you support only what is beneficial and/or convenient to you and your club.

Standards!!! Meaning long term viability,fan base ,juniors, sponsorship and financial backing from teh NRL.That's hardly throwing the mission impossible at new franchises.FHS.


Firstly it's not really up to the Commission, but that is an aside and the fact that you think that "the Commission" equals, to quote you- is the problem.

The Commission decides on the structure of the competition, not Greenburger & CO.Who else decides on the final make up?

You don't see the NRL as the National Rugby League or the ARLC as the Australian Rugby League Commission, you see it as yours ( the Sydney club's), your just happy to let other people play with it too as long as it doesn't effect you.

You love making assumptions.I see the NRL as running the competition.The ARLC to oversee the structure,financing.
What they decide ,I have zero control over, that doesn't mean I don't have an opinion.
Coming from someone whose club will not be affected,your smugness is stifling.


Yeah pretty much every RL administration that I can remember has said something similar, then a few months/years later they've propped up a club that's never going to be sustainable in the long term.

We'll have to wait and see, won't we.You'll no doubt be extremely disappointed, if they all perform well.

BTW, the hypocrisy of the fact that you hold this opinion now that you think the Sharks are safe is another part of the problem, shit I'd bet anything that if the Sharks fell over tomorrow your tune would change again...

You have a terrible habit of making laughable assumptions about my views.
"I think the Sharks are safe".
LOL They were not safe when the SL war started, only going to SL because the Dragons stayed loyal.
They then were at death's door.I was there when they made SL decision at the club.

Let me spell it out one more time.The club is relying on it's development to give it financial security, if the final stages fall over due to another GFC event, they won't be safe.

If the development continues along the same vein as the early stages, then they will have the financials to put themselves in a strong position.If any club is in a strong financial position, why the need to remove any club including Canberra.I have never shied away from that view.
I've stated all along if all clubs are financially viable, then whiteanting your base serves little purpose ,other than to alienate fans.Of course if you're tucked away ,with your club being unaffected it's a no brainer.
I've stated which you apparently are unable to grasp or deliberately ignore,if the Sharks fell over tomorrow I'd be devastated ,as would any fan of a club, unless you're built of stone.I have also stated if they are relocated ,my efforts would concentrate on the internationals game.
Now you can put any dumb interpretation of my views, as many times as you wish, but them's the facts.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
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7,771
You have a terrible habit of making laughable assumptions about my views.
"I think the Sharks are safe".
LOL They were not safe when the SL war started, only going to SL because the Dragons stayed loyal.
They then were at death's door.I was there when they made SL decision at the club.

What does SL have to do with anything? Scratch that, what does SL (or the Swans) ever have to do with anything when you bring them up....

Let me spell it out one more time.The club is relying on it's development to give it financial security, if the final stages fall over due to another GFC event, they won't be safe.

If the development continues along the same vein as the early stages, then they will have the financials to put themselves in a strong position.If any club is in a strong financial position, why the need to remove any club including Canberra.I have never shied away from that view.
I've stated all along if all clubs are financially viable, then whiteanting your base serves little purpose ,other than to alienate fans.Of course if you're tucked away ,with your club being unaffected it's a no brainer.
I've stated which you apparently are unable to grasp or deliberately ignore,if the Sharks fell over tomorrow I'd be devastated ,as would any fan of a club, unless you're built of stone.I have also stated if they are relocated ,my efforts would concentrate on the internationals game.
Now you can put any dumb interpretation of my views, as many times as you wish, but them's the facts.

I wrote a reply to this then scrapped it all cause by chance I saw that you'd written a ton of other stuff and left it in the quote attributed to me, don't do that it's just a really dumb thing to do, for a start it just confuses everything and some people will think I wrote what you've written, and I've missed it all and not responded to it cause I didn't think to read what supposedly I'd written looking for your response.

After wasting time writing a response to the above only to scrap it I honestly can't be bothered reading through the other stuff and completely re-writing a response, anyhow after reading about a sentence of it it's pretty obvious that it's probably all hyperbolic BS littered with pretty obvious falsehoods anyway so it's probably not worth going through anyway, especially considering that in the one sentence that I read you suggested that Canberra (and by extension) the ACT is or should be considered to be just part of NSW, cause really how do you respond to something so abjectly false and frankly just out and out ignorant...
 

Perth Red

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Tbh most clubs brands are not really that valuable that they would offer a lot as a relocation rather than setting up a new club. Most fans in Sydney would abandon them so not much winning there and you run the risk of fans in the relocation city not supporting them because they have a historical rival team they followed.

Better they drop into nsw Cup and concentrate on jnr development and new brands are built.
 

The Great Dane

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7,771
Tbh most clubs brands are not really that valuable that they would offer a lot as a relocation rather than setting up a new club. Most fans in Sydney would abandon them so not much winning there and you run the risk of fans in the relocation city not supporting them because they have a historical rival team they followed.

Better they drop into nsw Cup and concentrate on jnr development and new brands are built.

I pretty much agree, the only thing I'd say is that dropping them to NSW Cup is a waste, they still have the potential to do/be something big, but since any radical change to the structure of the sport in this country (especially something like introducing a proper pyramid system) is almost certainly never going to happen it's probably beyond wishful thinking to even propose the potential of something like that. It's sad but it is what it is.
 

Perth Red

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Maybe all NSW teams should leave the NRL and just play in the NSWRL

All except
Souths
Bulldogs
Eels
Knights
Dragons
Roosters

They can stay in nrl, rest can play in the nswrl championship with the bears and jets :)
 

Diesel

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All except
Souths
Bulldogs
Eels
Knights
Dragons
Roosters

They can stay in nrl, rest can play in the nswrl championship with the bears and jets :)
Sydney’s a basket case. Should offer 6-7 Sydney licences and make each club reapply for them. Open it up for current NRL and NSWRL clubs as well as any new consortium
 
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