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Rumoured and Confirmed signings - Part 4

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Abacus

Juniors
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2,093
The last line might be true but the club still suffers if they cant make it work, it could be horrific for the club tbh. The father coaching son thing is the only thing that worries me about Ivan being our coach. I don't give two shits about the tigers or how we make it happen.
Not sure that impact on the club would be serious. Most would understand that with such a short window to facilitate the father/son opportunity the club has to act now or leave it for another club to make it happen.

IMO, those bashing the club over this are either:
  • Outsiders pissed that Panthers are having a crack at something with significant upside if it works (otherwise no one would care);
  • Thin-skinned supporters that are worried about being liked by other fans. To these I say harden up - no risk, no reward.
At the end of the day, nuffies like Rothfield will always take their shots at the club. The club and its supporters need to either want success (and so take these risks) or be liked. The 2 are more often than not mutually exclusive.
 

Abacus

Juniors
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2,093
The only problem is if it fails and Nathan doesn't like the way the club treats his Father (Gould has already shafted him once) Nathan could get the shits and leave.
If it fails. It will be time to change our halfback anyway
If it fails though that's probably not a bad thing for Nathan to leave, Failing means losing and Nathan as our star halfback will be a big part of us losing, if that is what happens.
Exactly.
 

Abacus

Juniors
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2,093
Do you think this whole father and son thing will affect the playing group?

How do you remain objective all the time?

Probably would have been harder to tel Nathan that his dads an average coach
Who cares. In experiences like this usually the father is harder on the son than any other player.

Up to the coach to manage the players. Only an issue if we have another promising half missing out on opportunity.
 

Exsilium

First Grade
Messages
9,553
Who cares. In experiences like this usually the father is harder on the son than any other player.

Up to the coach to manage the players. Only an issue if we have another promising half missing out on opportunity.

I’ll be honest, I don’t have kids so I’d have little idea how I’d treat them in a professional world.

I just don’t rate Ivan enough to be completely comfortable with the idea of him returning.

Nathan is a solid half but without risk, there’s no reward. This squad, with some astute additions could be a mainstay for years to come.

Next season is the most important we’ve had in a while. Lots of promising players knocking on the door, players like DWZ could want a fullback role etc. can’t keep everyone

Tough choices will be made I think. Let’s start with merrin :joy:
 

Black Magik

Juniors
Messages
869
No way Ivan coaches at WT once he signs elsewhere. If want to clear space go for player compensation if not Ivan just sits out 2 years
I don't see any compensation in this scenario.

Ivan would be the one seeking compensation if his contract is terminated before it's due date, but he could be generous to the WT's and walk early for nothing. They would have all sorts of issues attracting players knowing the coach won't be there IMO.

It is the classic sucker punch. The WT's should have allowed IC to walk early and then demand compensation...that is if Nathan has in fact agreed to stay with us. If not...the Tigers win.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,474
No way Ivan coaches at WT once he signs elsewhere. If want to clear space go for player compensation if not Ivan just sits out 2 years

Really, you're up shit creek as an NRL club if you have a coach who wants to be elsewhere. If Ivan wants out, like really wants it then its in their best interest to let him go.
 

GongPanther

Referee
Messages
28,342
That would be ripping us off. He is not worth a dollar over 1M a season, and that is assuming he improves over the next 5 years. From what we have seen this year 800K would be generous.
He will no doubt reach that potential. And besides,that price in the long run might become a bargain if you factor in the open market and not what he has not achieved in the past.

He is a franchise half,with a squad which is humming to win more than one premiership.
 

Abacus

Juniors
Messages
2,093
That would be ripping us off. He is not worth a dollar over 1M a season, and that is assuming he improves over the next 5 years. From what we have seen this year 800K would be generous.
In a vacuum, agreed. Unfortunately the club is in a competitive market with enough other bidders that he'll receive $1m+ easily.

For context, think of the property market a couple of years ago.
 

GongPanther

Referee
Messages
28,342
This is the publication that has the players talking directly to them:

Penrith Panthers offer Ivan Cleary a three-year deal from 2021
Adrian Proszenko
3 minutes
Nathan Cleary had initially outlined his plan to make a call on his future on his 21st birthday, a milestone he reaches in November. However, he told Fairfax Media last weekend that he was keen to fast-track negotiations, hinting “It will be very, very hard to walk away” from the Panthers. Penrith supremo Phil Gould indicated a deal was imminent on the Channel Nine's 100% Footy on Monday night and deal is expected to be formalised and announced by the end of the week.

The Tigers had hoped a Cleary family reunion would occur at Concord and were preparing to make a big-money play once Nathan hit the open market on November 1. However, it now appears they could be without both Clearys in a matter of weeks if Ivan signs with Penrith and requests an immediate release or is asked to move immediately.

The Tigers will likely seek compensation if Cleary wants out, either through player transfers or a financial settlement. Regardless, there are plenty of coaching replacement options. Premiership winners Michael Maguire and Des Hasler are club-less, Trent Barrett is on borrowed time at Manly, Wayne Bennett could consider longer-term options with only a one-year deal at Brisbane, while Kevin Walters, Laurie Daley, Geoff Toovey, Neil Henry, Todd Payten and Justin Holbrook are among the other alternatives.

Although the Tigers missed the finals - they finished in ninth spot - Cleary’s stocks have risen after overseeing a rebuild at a club many tipped to come last. The bond between the Cleary clan is undeniable, as evidenced by Ivan’s decision to donate a kidney to his brother Ash.

However, Cleary senior will come under heavy criticism if he doesn’t commit solely to the Tigers. He convinced a number of the club’s biggest-name recruits to join and play for him, some of them signing long-term deals or subsequently renewing their contracts.

There is also the question of why Cleary would want to go to a club that only recently sacked him. Gould said Cleary was “tired”, ushering in Griffin as his replacement. However, Gould then sacked Griffin with more than two years remaining on his contract, leaving Cameron Ciraldo to oversee the team in a caretaker role over the past six weeks.

It remains to be seen how, and for how long, Gould and Cleary can work together this time around if the later decides to return to his old post.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/pa...hree-year-deal-from-2021-20180918-p504ie.html
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Really, you're up shit creek as an NRL club if you have a coach who wants to be elsewhere. If Ivan wants out, like really wants it then its in their best interest to let him go.

How do convince players to sign somewhere the coach doesn't even want to be?
 

Matthew Ellis

Juniors
Messages
482
It appears that Bryce Cartwright and his supporters still harbour unwarranted angst at his departure from Penrith in the pre-season. His partner posted on social media last week saying that Cartwright had been “discarded” by the club. A huge call, given Penrith went above and beyond in their efforts to keep the wayward Cartwright – whose first grade career is in tatters – on the right track.
http://westernweekender.com.au/2018/09/masked-panther-one-cleary-down-one-to-go/
IIRC didn't Bryce say he left because he wasn't in first choice 17 anymore?
 
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