Moving forward

[Walter sobchak]

so the international RL fixtures are done and dusted for another year and for me it was over before it even started with a few moments of explosive excitement with the kiwis beating Australia in Auckland and the whole Tongan thingy before a very enjoyable England v NZ series.

My question is how do we lift more nations like France, Fiji and PNG upto tier1 level like Tonga and create more exciting top level international RL events/contests?

The most obvious answer is to expose more French, Fijian and Kumuls to 1st team/grade domestic RL in the NRL and UK. The hunters need a U18’s&u20’s team entered into the Queensland cup youth comps ASAP and PNG need a 2nd Queensland cup franchise based in Lae again with u18’s&u20’s side within the next 2-3 years. Likewise with a Fijian franchise(is this definitely happening?) in the NSW cup again with junior sides. As for France it’s pretty obvious that Toulouse need to win promotion to super league and there needs to be a French National academy side competing against their English counterparts even more so what with the dragons scrapping their academy side from next season. I would also argue for a 3rd French side in the English leagues from a big city expansion area like Paris, Marseille or Lyon etc.

All in all I guess what I’m trying to say in a longwinded way is that the international RL window is too short and that we need more nations playing against each other more often in competitive fixtures.

 

[Pommy]

A little premature USA are playing Jamaica right now.
Tonga aren’t tier 1 level, don’t believe the hype. If Tonga were made a tier 1 team they would be back to square one.

 

[Walter sobchak]

A little premature USA are playing Jamaica right now.
Tonga aren’t tier 1 level, don’t believe the hype. If Tonga were made a tier 1 team they would be back to square one.

I’m talking about tier1 fixtures that are played in front big crowds(usually) and not 1 man and his dog.

Tonga are straddling tiers 1&2 right now but unfortunately Tonga’s foundations are built on sand.

 

[Springs09]

We need more fixtures between all nations first and foremost. If for example Fiji played with their strongest team several times every year, including against Tier 1 nations, then it will raise the profile in Fiji and help keep prominent Fijians playing for Fiji.

As it is we are stuffed until about 2023, so development will continue at a crawl until then.

 

[langpark]

When will people realise there are no quick fixes when it comes to development. It's been a 123-year process, you cannot expect rapid change in a few short years.

Things ARE developing quite rapidly though, and if you think they aren't, do some research: World Cup 2000, some of the "nations" that competed in that and what a financial disaster that was. So much so that many of us were convinced the idea would be binned forever. Now we have dozens of legitimate nations competing for qualification into WC 2021, who would have dreamed of such a thing 12 years ago?

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I think you hit the nail on the head OP. The way to make more nations compete at the top level is by having a professional pool of players to choose from, from either the NRL or SL. A pool of around 50 - 60 with at least 10 or so in the NRL would probably make you a fairly competitive team. This gives the players consistent, high-level matches and access to the best coaching and training.

The way to feed the players into this system is to have quality amatuer or semi-professional domestic leagues and then either a club in one of those two comps (Warriors, Catalans) or a team in the second or third teir that sit above the domestic scene and are a pathway and shop front to be picked up by the top teir clubs (Toronto Wolfpack (currently), West Wales, Crusaders, PNG Hunters, Fiji (hopefully), Toulouse.

 

[Coastbloke]

IMHO the single most important goal for our game in the next few years is the implementation of a SL standard fully professional competition in France. Go onto Google and type 'foreign players in the French Super 14.' It reads like a UN list.

In Australia with a population of 21,000,000 we hold successful competitions from Rugby League, union, AFL and in summer, the A-League and cricket. All with decent crowds. Now I'm not a expert in French sport but as far as I know, they have a population of 67,000,000 for Union and Soccer. Seems to me there's plenty of room for a League revolution. Filled with French, Irish, Welsh, Italian, Scottish, Jamaican and Serbian athletes with a promise of a professional contract. It's possible. Lowy did it with the NSL to A-League. This is where the RLIF, RLEF need to man up and sell the game.

In Australia we have room for a 18 team comp that has room for more indigenous Fijian, Samoan, Tongan and PNG players. The problem is that I am fully entrenched in the belief that Australian RL 'mafiosa' simply doesn't want the International presence enlarged so as to protect Origin. With ample effort and promotion, the ANZAC Test could have been as big as Origin. Hopefully Beattie can change this. One day I hope to see Australia v a competitive Fiji or Samoa or PNG play at ANZ in front of 80,000. Or France v Tonga in front of 50,000 in Toulouse. Or England v Wales in front of 60,000.

What the game needs to do to move foward is more professional contracts. Another fully professional comp in France would be a great start. IMHO of course..

 

[Walter sobchak]

I think you hit the nail on the head OP. The way to make more nations compete at the top level is by having a professional pool of players to choose from, from either the NRL or SL. A pool of around 50 - 60 with at least 10 or so in the NRL would probably make you a fairly competitive team. This gives the players consistent, high-level matches and access to the best coaching and training.

The way to feed the players into this system is to have quality amatuer or semi-professional domestic leagues and then either a club in one of those two comps (Warriors, Catalans) or a team in the second or third teir that sit above the domestic scene and are a pathway and shop front to be picked up by the top teir clubs (Toronto Wolfpack (currently), West Wales, Crusaders, PNG Hunters, Fiji (hopefully), Toulouse.

This. Unfortunately either the Toronto Wolfpack or Toulouse will miss out on promotion to super league next season as only 1 team will be promoted unless super league expands to 14 teams. The Catalan dragons doing away with their u19’s academy side is criminal and a huge mistake as they were becoming very competitive and had a host of potential super league players in their squad. The elite1 u19’s competition will obliviously be less competitive than the super league one.

For me the real dark horse of international RL could be wales as they currently have around a dozen or so super league and championship welsh born players and the same about of youngsters signed upto to super league clubs u16’s&u19’s academy sides.

It’s a slow process but we’ll eventually get there as long as the development pathways are in place for RL players from wales, France, png and Fiji. Maybe even Serbia if the rumours are true.

 

[Walter sobchak]

IMHO the single most important goal for our game in the next few years is the implementation of a SL standard fully professional competition in France. Go onto Google and type 'foreign players in the French Super 14.' It reads like a UN list.

In Australia with a population of 21,000,000 we hold successful competitions from Rugby League, union, AFL and in summer, the A-League and cricket. All with decent crowds. Now I'm not a expert in French sport but as far as I know, they have a population of 67,000,000 for Union and Soccer. Seems to me there's plenty of room for a League revolution. Filled with French, Irish, Welsh, Italian, Scottish, Jamaican and Serbian athletes with a promise of a professional contract. It's possible. Lowy did it with the NSL to A-League. This is where the RLIF, RLEF need to man up and sell the game.

In Australia we have room for a 18 team comp that has room for more indigenous Fijian, Samoan, Tongan and PNG players. The problem is that I am fully entrenched in the belief that Australian RL 'mafiosa' simply doesn't want the International presence enlarged so as to protect Origin. With ample effort and promotion, the ANZAC Test could have been as big as Origin. Hopefully Beattie can change this. One day I hope to see Australia v a competitive Fiji or Samoa or PNG play at ANZ in front of 80,000. Or France v Tonga in front of 50,000 in Toulouse. Or England v Wales in front of 60,000.

What the game needs to do to move foward is more professional contracts. Another fully professional comp in France would be a great start. IMHO of course..

The NRL expanding to 18 teams could be huge for the development of tier2 countries. 50-60 new professional RL players would need to be found and RL players from both png and Fiji could fill that void. Also some NRL clubs could raid the stocks of the Pacific RU international teams and their youth teams.

You would also imagine that a few more English super league players would be targeted by NRL clubs leaving a shortage of players in super league which could be filled by elite1 French players, welsh players and even players from the hunters and Fiji.

 

[Walter sobchak]

When will people realise there are no quick fixes when it comes to development. It's been a 123-year process, you cannot expect rapid change in a few short years.

Things ARE developing quite rapidly though, and if you think they aren't, do some research: World Cup 2000, some of the "nations" that competed in that and what a financial disaster that was. So much so that many of us were convinced the idea would be binned forever. Now we have dozens of legitimate nations competing for qualification into WC 2021, who would have dreamed of such a thing 12 years ago?

Adding a 2nd png franchise to the Queensland cup along with u18&u20 academy sides is definitely a doable quick fix. As is the Fijian franchise joining the NSW cup.

Same with the French and welsh academy sides in super league. In fact I would almost say it’s an urgent requirement.

 

[deal.with.it]

If the RFL and NRL were serious about growing the game, you would allow salary cap exempt players (say 3 per team) if they were developed domestically in a tier 2/3 nation.

The alternative is to have Fiji in the NSWRL, Toulouse in SL, Dublin in League 1, and North Wales Crusaders back to developing domestic players.

On another note, Ireland has had a few players join SL academies which is promising.

 

[Walter sobchak]

If the RFL and NRL were serious about growing the game, you would allow salary cap exempt players (say 3 per team) if they were developed domestically in a tier 2/3 nation.

The alternative is to have Fiji in the NSWRL, Toulouse in SL, Dublin in League 1, and North Wales Crusaders back to developing domestic players.

On another note, Ireland has had a few players join SL academies which is promising.

A lot of rumours about a Dublin based club entering league 1. I didn’t know that about Irish players joining super league academies. Very encouraging indeed as Ireland is currently riding high in the union world. Not sure if that’s a positive or negative for RL in Ireland??

 

[Walter sobchak]

In regards with the U.K. I think the way to go is regional academy sides playing in super league for wales and Ireland. Not so sure about Scotland. I believe that Cumbria and the north east have regional academy sides. Would be great to see a West Midlands and even East Midlands regional academy sides. Maybe even west county or Merseyside etc.

 

[Perth Red]

No amount of fixtures between tier 1 and tier 2 nations will make the blind bit of difference. The only way is to have an ever increasing number of players from said country playing in SL or NRL on a weekly basis. The PI's have only become competitive because of the number of eligible players in the NRL. We need 3 French teams in SL and another NZ & PNG one in NRL in reality.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

No amount of fixtures between tier 1 and tier 2 nations will make the blind bit of difference. The only way is to have an ever increasing number of players from said country playing in SL or NRL on a weekly basis. The PI's have only become competitive because of the number of eligible players in the NRL. We need 3 French teams in SL and another NZ & PNG one in NRL in reality.

100% agree - this is the only thing that makes the difference. Amatuers are not going to start beating pros just because they play them more often. All nations need to work with the NRL and SL to set up pathways for their players to the pro ranks and where feasable, professional or semi-professional clubs need to be entered into those systems (Wales, France, PNG, NZ, Canada). A third pro league wouldn't hurt either - the French league seems the most likely at present but the French (with maybe the help of t need to put a lot of work in to make that happen.

 

[siv]

Develop the PNG Cup and NZ Cups to be the equal of the QLD Cup

 

[Walter sobchak]

Develop the PNG Cup and NZ Cups to be the equal of the QLD Cup

Never going to happen in png due to finances and structure.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Never going to happen in png due to finances and structure.

Fair point re: PNG - NZ however should already have a comp that is at least approaching QLD / NSW Cup level. I think the NRL as much as the NZRL and Auckland RL should help to make it happen. It is good for the game as a whole and it is good for NRL as good pathways produce players for expansion or even just to continually push the standards up in the NRL. A healthy Kangaroos / Kiwi rivalry is never bad for the game either.