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Salary cap ideas

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
28,032
I swear I did another thread on this but f**ked if I can find it.

*Big caveat to start off - changing cap rules/admin requires in large part getting players and clubs to agree, it's not all on the NRL. If it means giving up more of the revenue share, so be it IMO.

So almost half the comp have been found to have significantly rorted the cap rules. Things be broke.
If rules are being broken consistently, it is either an inherent rebellious streak in the club officials (to a degree there'd be an underpinning of desire to win), the administration of the rules is lacking (IMO partly because the NRL don't want to find problems), the rules themselves aren't effective, or a combo of all three.

I think if you get a whole bunch of ex-players or passionate club supporters together who are really driven to win then the possibility of pushing/breaking the rules increases, but no one else is going to run these clubs. So you need to reduce the opportunity to cheat (or increase the deterrent/penalty for doing so).

The surface administration of the rules is nowhere near robust enough. Essentially relying on whistleblowers, self-reporting, the integrity of officials and apparent limp penalties isn't doing the job. I'd hope the NRL would be more intense on their scrutiny of club financials and player income to know the exact cap position of every club at any given time. There's certainly other ways around it but these rorts aren't being found until years after the event, so they definitely need to shorten that timeframe up.

The penalties themselves clearly aren't enough of a deterrent either. Options are to harden penalties to the point of effectively disintegrating clubs, or (we come to the main crux of the thread) essentially a loosening of the rules.

So my new cap proposal is a 2 tiered soft/hard cap system (FYI I did steal a lot from NBA):
  1. The first threshold would probably be akin to the current model. 30 players, $10m (rounded), all the same payments included/excluded, if you're below cap then you have no restrictions on paying/signing players (beyond contract law). The NRL grant matches this cap, although I expect the grant could be more than the cap amount.
  2. The second hard threshold would say be $2m above 1st cap. Once you go above the soft cap, you are restricted to only being able to re-sign your own current free agents or players to minimum contracts. If you go above hard cap, your ass is grass. There'd have to be some mechanism that means clubs don't utilise the NRL grant to pay players into this cap. The main use I see it for is club prepared TPAs, this encourages clubs to not go nefarious on their TPAs but declare everything instead.
  3. Players aren't restricted on earning legit TPAs.
  4. Possible working of "minimum" contracts in relation to hard cap restrictions so X year vets aren't restricted to the same remuneration as untested rookies.
  5. Possible cap provisions for cap exempt, long-term juniors in their first year of their full contract (subject to salary restrictions)
  6. Possible cap penalties for going over soft cap - perhaps the final cap can even be a rolling amount for clubs, so there's penalty for paying over soft cap that accumulates and restricts final cap in subsequent years, and likewise paying below soft cap provides allowances to final cap figure in year they exceed soft cap. Or even more simple, teams that go over soft cap are locked into that year's hard cap and it doesn't reset until they play a complete season under the soft cap?
  7. I had a couple of other ideas but forgot them for now
The alternative for changing the rules is maintaining the current system (is it working?) or the current rules with far harsher penalties (we'd have been booted).

Another alternative is to dissolve the cap, pay players whatever you can afford and in the blink of an eye Brisbane will have the QLD origin side, Roosters the NSW origin side, Warriors the NZ test side and the Scum will have every other rep player who wants to live outside Brisbane/Sydney bubble
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
73,548
Good post. The cap is needed so as to provide broadcasters with 8 competitive matches a week.

I can't see anything being resolved until such time that tax returns of players, spouses and related entities are produced.

Otherwise there will be rorts to gain the competitive edge. Heaven help the glamour clubs if they can't warehouse junior $talent$ and pay elite players undisclosed payments.

How do other sports with salary caps deal with forensic scrutiny of the doginess ?
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
28,032
Good post. The cap is needed so as to provide broadcasters with 8 competitive matches a week.

I can't see anything being resolved until such time that tax returns of players, spouses and related entities are produced.

Otherwise there will be rorts to gain the competitive edge. Heaven help the glamour clubs if they can't warehouse junior $talent$ and pay elite players undisclosed payments.

How do other sports with salary caps deal with forensic scrutiny of the doginess ?
My point was to open up, opposed to closing, the salary cap to discourage dodgy deals but also somewhat maintain an even playing field. If half the clubs are already getting dodgy TPAs, what's the likelihood other clubs are also at least getting some grey ones too?

The only other relevant sport to NRL would be AFL, and pretty sure they sweep everything under carpet. Other major sports either have a far superior economy so dodginess isn't really a factor, or for us to investigate would be too difficult
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
73,548
My point was to open up, opposed to closing, the salary cap to discourage dodgy deals but also somewhat maintain an even playing field. If half the clubs are already getting dodgy TPAs, what's the likelihood other clubs are also at least getting some grey ones too?

The only other relevant sport to NRL would be AFL, and pretty sure they sweep everything under carpet. Other major sports either have a far superior economy so dodginess isn't really a factor, or for us to investigate would be too difficult

I still don't buy the whole TPA rubbish. The amount of legit TPA's that exist you could probably count on one hand. That is (like the Nike / Mennings deal) a corporate entity sponsors a player for marketing or whatever purpose. From a contract POV, there is a consideration. The majority of TPAs are sugar daddy sponsorships arranged by clubs linked to rich merkins.

So the Roosters can get a room of rich merkins to pay players independently of the club, provided that are not already a sponsor. The Tigers however have the richest sugar daddy of them all (Triguboff), but because he is aligned with the club none of his cash can go towards TPAs, only admin costs.
 

Gazzamatta

Coach
Messages
14,143
If we cant secure businesses/business people who wish to be involved and direct them through the correct process given our homecoming and the development currently happening in Parramatta then imho somebody isnt doing their job.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
28,032
So the Roosters can get a room of rich merkins to pay players independently of the club, provided that are not already a sponsor. The Tigers however have the richest sugar daddy of them all (Triguboff), but because he is aligned with the club none of his cash can go towards TPAs, only admin costs.
I don't what the f**k Triguboff is doing. I can only assume he doesn't have that many richie riches in his network. Politis "set it up" as basically a network/introduction event for Packer/Gyngell level business with the buy in price being a TPA. The benefit is building my own business, not really getting to meet a player. The legit marketing TPAs will always continue to only be available to the upper marketable players and Queenslanders. Every other TPA isn't sustainable or economical
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
28,032
Anyway ignore TPAs, what about the salary cap proposal? Allow but cap "illegitimate" TPAs.
It's clear that there is capacity & of course desire to pay players more.
And if these arrangements are more transparent, it could encourage players towards better behaviour
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
73,548
If we cant secure businesses/business people who wish to be involved and direct them through the correct process given our homecoming and the development currently happening in Parramatta then imho somebody isnt doing their job.

I own a business. What incentive is there for me to sponsor a top 30 player other than the sugar hit ? Do I get game day exposure ? A presence on the Eels website ? Pretty sure the answer is no. I get no return for my cash.

EDIT: --> https://www.nrl.com/operations/the-game/the-salary-cap/

What players can earn outside the salary cap:

Unlimited - Players can earn unlimited amounts from corporate sponsors who are not associated with the club and who do not use the game's intellectual property (no club logos, jerseys or emblems) provided these are pre-approved by both a Player’s Club and the NRL. These agreements may not be negotiated by the club as an incentive for a player to sign a contract, nor can they be guaranteed by the club.

I get that an elite player has his own profile that theoretically coud be used for marketing purposes. I am yet to see any business get any real benefit from it however. Perhaps on Instagram (which I don't have) ? Are any NRL players "brand ambassadors" on instagram ?

No use to me but. Maybe I could get Andrew Davey to come to the office and do some photocopying for the girls. :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
99,407
I've always thought that TPAs should go through the NRL, and not managers/clubs.

They have a unit for all sorts of things, surely they can have a unit for companies and managers to arrange TPAs through.

I don't think you can ever stop rorting altogether, either.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
28,032
I own a business. What incentive is there for me to sponsor a top 30 player other than the sugar hit ? Do I get game day exposure ? A presence on the Eels website ? Pretty sure the answer is no. I get no return for my cash.

EDIT: --> https://www.nrl.com/operations/the-game/the-salary-cap/

What players can earn outside the salary cap:

Unlimited - Players can earn unlimited amounts from corporate sponsors who are not associated with the club and who do not use the game's intellectual property (no club logos, jerseys or emblems) provided these are pre-approved by both a Player’s Club and the NRL. These agreements may not be negotiated by the club as an incentive for a player to sign a contract, nor can they be guaranteed by the club.

I get that a high profile player has his own profile that theoretically be used for marketing purposes. I am yet to see any business get any real benefit from it however. Perhaps on Instagram (which I don't have) ? Are any NRL players "brand ambassadors" on instagram ?

No use to me but. Maybe I could get Andrew Davey to come to the office and do some photocopying for the girls. :rolleyes:
There is some return, but yeah the cash you'd have to fork out is well in excess of what you'd be willing to pay.
Plus in some circumstances, I don't think these arrangements of the player having to turn up to your business EOFY party for couple hours are particularly great on the player's psyche
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
28,032
I've always thought that TPAs should go through the NRL, and not managers/clubs.

They have a unit for all sorts of things, surely they can have a unit for companies and managers to arrange TPAs through.

I don't think you can ever stop rorting altogether, either.
There'd be some legalities around it but I agree. The problem is for players (despite it being the way it should be) is that it'd be after the fact of already signing with a club, they'll have no (legit) idea on their total earning potential
 

Gazzamatta

Coach
Messages
14,143
So I guess anybody who takes out a TPA is mad. Maybe somebody at our club needs to seek out some mad people. They are out there. Other clubs seem to have access to them. Maybe they are cold called? Any calls recently Gronky?
 
Messages
19,103
Even if there is no cheating, players in one-team towns have a tremendous advantage in terms of attracting TPAs. The media exposure is far greater.
 

carson

Juniors
Messages
1,325
I think all players should be assigned a value by an independent body at the beginning of each season, this value counts towards the cap. What they then get paid by the clubs becomes irrelevant.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
28,032
I think all players should be assigned a value by an independent body at the beginning of each season, this value counts towards the cap. What they then get paid by the clubs becomes irrelevant.
Way too much objectivity
 
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