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The Importance of a Top Line Coach

BennyV

Referee
Messages
22,441
Recent article quotes Mary as saying he is happy with our results to start the season. That is, he is happy with the fact that we’ve copped 2 big losses and 2 last-minute 1 point wins (in games where we should have dominated on the scoreboard) is a pleasing result. This is the bar our club have set. This is the standard we are at now, from the guy who is meant to be leading the team. Any claims that he is a ‘good man manager’ is full of shit based on these sort of standards alone (not the first time he’s made this sort of comment - in 2016 he claimed the teams target was to win 3/6 of their first games, while in 2017 he claimed that the whole point of NRL is to try and make the finals).

Anyone content with this clown as coach cannot claim they want success for our team. And that goes for our management.
 

Water11

Juniors
Messages
31
Recent article quotes Mary as saying he is happy with our results to start the season. That is, he is happy with the fact that we’ve copped 2 big losses and 2 last-minute 1 point wins (in games where we should have dominated on the scoreboard) is a pleasing result. This is the bar our club have set. This is the standard we are at now, from the guy who is meant to be leading the team. Any claims that he is a ‘good man manager’ is full of shit based on these sort of standards alone (not the first time he’s made this sort of comment - in 2016 he claimed the teams target was to win 3/6 of their first games, while in 2017 he claimed that the whole point of NRL is to try and make the finals).

Anyone content with this clown as coach cannot claim they want success for our team. And that goes for our management.

Perfectly assessed.

You're needed in club management apart from the piss ants currently presiding over this mess.
 
Messages
2,866
I am just waiting for those on here voicing how Nathan Brown is a much better coach than Mary to keep banging on the table.
Apparently his experience and runs on the board in Super League is enough to wish he would coach the Dragons.
Yeh he inherited a mess up at Newcastle and also created some by geting rid of everyone and ignoring a few good Juniors for imports as there is now a rush for success up there.
He has a good squad but a few obvious weak links.
I am still waiting for him to produce as a NRL coach. Except for Ponga and Ramien who you can build a side around they have paid overs for a lot of em. Klemmer too but he is on as much if not more than Hunt a year
Brownie is a good bloke..infact probably a top bloke..but they say that about Mary.
I suppose the pertinent comparison between Brown and McGregor other than the subjective debate about aptitude is how their respective clubs will deal with performance.
If in fact Brown continues to underperform will Newcastle persevere for 5 years and then extend again??
I can only guess but I bet you they won't.
That is the real difference between McGregor and Brown.
McGregor is a protected species who is not accountable for his performance or results.
Yet another extension will see him in charge for 7 or 8 years in total.
 

The Damo

Juniors
Messages
1,991
Pereira was desperate to secure a first grade gig and probably would have signed for minimum salary. How is this anything but an opportunistic signing that requires next to no talent from our recruitment people. Can you advise just one skill that Mary has improved for Pereira. I would say he is a determined player and his determination is the basis for his reliable service in first grade.
He did sign for minimum- that’s one of the things that makes it a good signing. If you think identifying potential first graders, signing them for minimum, then having them cement their spot and be well above average for their position in just 13 games takes no talent, and deserves no credit, then there’s just no evidence that will convince you.
I’d say JP has improved all his skills - he attacks kicks better, he gets more post contact metres and quicker play the balls, his positioning is better, he’s more aware of the sideline and finishes better.
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
8,944
I suppose the pertinent comparison between Brown and McGregor other than the subjective debate about aptitude is how their respective clubs will deal with performance.
If in fact Brown continues to underperform will Newcastle persevere for 5 years and then extend again??
I can only guess but I bet you they won't.
That is the real difference between McGregor and Brown.
McGregor is a protected species who is not accountable for his performance or results.
Yet another extension will see him in charge for 7 or 8 years in total.
No that is not my argument or point of camparison who is a better coach for our club. Of course Newcatle wont but again that has nothing to do with the coach himself now. People on here want Brown over Mary. That is my point and why is he a better choice. I have not seen it except the way he talks and is frank and sometimes throws some of his players under a bus when not happy with their performance in press conferences...which I like.
 
Messages
2,866
No that is not my argument or point of camparison who is a better coach for our club. Of course Newcatle wont but again that has nothing to do with the coach himself now. People on here want Brown over Mary. That is my point and why is he a better choice. I have not seen it except the way he talks and is frank and sometimes throws some of his players under a bus when not happy with their performance in press conferences...which I like.
OK but we have passed up the opportunity to sign a number of coaches that have better credentials than both.
I can think of 3 coaches that I would rather have than Brown.
 

RufusRex

Post Whore
Messages
62,231
The importance of a top line coach is this ...

1992 Matthew Rodwell is rookie of the year, 1993 he plays again and Newcastle finish out of the 5 winning more games than they lose. 1994 a top line coach makes the big decision to flick a bloke who has started his career well and is improving for a bloke with obviously more talent in Andrew Johns ... (david waite)

2002 Richard Swain is the current NZ hooker. The storm are not travelling great and miss the 8 by a win. Again a tough decision is made to flick a bloke in favour of a relative unknown with 2 games of NRL experience at Halfback. Cameron Smith plays the next season at 9 and the storm make the finals that year. (craig bellamy)

2008 Jason Ryles former international and still playing decent footy with us flicked in favour of Weyman (Bennett)

The tough decisions to identify better options and replace/flick adequately performing players is one of the hall marks of an astute/competent coach.

Yes they will get it wrong - but right now I dont really know if Mary has ever made a decision like that.
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
8,944
The importance of a top line coach is this ...

1992 Matthew Rodwell is rookie of the year, 1993 he plays again and Newcastle finish out of the 5 winning more games than they lose. 1994 a top line coach makes the big decision to flick a bloke who has started his career well and is improving for a bloke with obviously more talent in Andrew Johns ... (david waite)

2002 Richard Swain is the current NZ hooker. The storm are not travelling great and miss the 8 by a win. Again a tough decision is made to flick a bloke in favour of a relative unknown with 2 games of NRL experience at Halfback. Cameron Smith plays the next season at 9 and the storm make the finals that year. (craig bellamy)

2008 Jason Ryles former international and still playing decent footy with us flicked in favour of Weyman (Bennett)

The tough decisions to identify better options and replace/flick adequately performing players is one of the hall marks of an astute/competent coach.

Yes they will get it wrong - but right now I dont really know if Mary has ever made a decision like that.
Flick Merrin and JT..for JDB, T Sims or Frizz and young gun backrower....take your pick
Flick Rein...McInnes?
Flick Dugan...Replacement Dufty...Will get back to you on that one next year when see how it pans out
Flick McDonald...as above
Flick Aitken......wait there
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
8,944
OK but we have passed up the opportunity to sign a number of coaches that have better credentials than both.
I can think of 3 coaches that I would rather have than Brown.
Which 3 did we pass up on that are better credentialled than Mary.
I can think of Hasler..OK...would agree there
Bellamy we tried for and Bennett again I think and missed out
Cleary we passed on and can see why
McGuire not sold on yet.

Who else?..or who were you referring to
 

The Damo

Juniors
Messages
1,991
As I said kudos to Pereira but I still cant understand why we did not at least promote Masters in the 1st instance if not upgrade Saab's contract to NRL status.
You say you think them a bit young at the time but everywhere I look away from our club is a plethora of young bucks stepping up but we never bother to go down that route unless absolutely forced on us and as soon as coach can revert to SNAFU he does.
Re Lawrie he is no 13 and shouldn't be playing there as simple as that. He tries hard but has none of the requisite skills we are looking for in that position.
I believe you are correct and coach will revert Host to the middle this week as part of the prop rotation and will play Leilua edge when Frizz has a rest or goes to 13 to rest Lawrie.
I expect a very dour if not lacklustre display from us and the forwards to look well and truly fatigued by 15 into the 2nd half.
This is a game where Norman, Hunt and Dufty will have to shine and create havoc if we are to win.
Just a minor correction- Its not that I think Saab and marsters were a bit young. I’m pretty sure that the NRL wouldn’t allow players their age last year to play. So they just weren’t an option.

I think we should be able to chew through the dogs in the middle of the field for most of he game. And if we can give lafai early ball he’ll cut holland to pieces.
 

The Damo

Juniors
Messages
1,991
Just a minor correction- Its not that I think Saab and marsters were a bit young. I’m pretty sure that the NRL wouldn’t allow players their age last year to play. So they just weren’t an option.

I think we should be able to chew through the dogs in the middle of the field for most of he game. And if we can give lafai early ball he’ll cut holland to pieces.
Bugger, got sides mixed up. Holland is on their left. That’s a shame.
 

RufusRex

Post Whore
Messages
62,231
Flick Merrin and JT..for JDB, T Sims or Frizz and young gun backrower....take your pick
Flick Rein...McInnes?
Flick Dugan...Replacement Dufty...Will get back to you on that one next year when see how it pans out
Flick McDonald...as above
Flick Aitken......wait there


How many of them do you actually think were Mary?

Definately not Rein/Nene who were all contract or behavior based ... Millward the man behind that saving mary from himself on the Rein thing.
Mary was in the papers trying to get Mez to backflip on the panthers deal too.

So it is really down to Thommo or Dugan.

that Dugan one had a lot to do with Millward also with statements along position etc.

Thommo you might be right on.
 

BennyV

Referee
Messages
22,441
Flick Merrin and JT..for JDB, T Sims or Frizz and young gun backrower....take your pick
Flick Rein...McInnes?
Flick Dugan...Replacement Dufty...Will get back to you on that one next year when see how it pans out
Flick McDonald...as above
Flick Aitken......wait there
All of them were on Millward, and if any of those guys remained here they’d still be in their position (as evidenced by the fact that Aitken is still part of the 17, as well as the fact that Sims played middle until JT left).
Which 3 did we pass up on that are better credentialled than Mary.
I can think of Hasler..OK...would agree there
Bellamy we tried for and Bennett again I think and missed out
Cleary we passed on and can see why
McGuire not sold on yet.

Who else?..or who were you referring to
if you’re ‘not sold’ on McGuire and you back Mary, you’ve lost the plot and completely missed the point of this thread.
 

blacksafake

First Grade
Messages
8,988
He did sign for minimum- that’s one of the things that makes it a good signing. If you think identifying potential first graders, signing them for minimum, then having them cement their spot and be well above average for their position in just 13 games takes no talent, and deserves no credit, then there’s just no evidence that will convince you.
I’d say JP has improved all his skills - he attacks kicks better, he gets more post contact metres and quicker play the balls, his positioning is better, he’s more aware of the sideline and finishes better.
He's grown on me, Not only does he put in but he's Improving all the time & should only get better probably because he "wants" to get better. Would I prefer a Semi, Addo Carr, Rapana or Oates sure but at the moment our recruitment are most likely not going to get one of these types for various reasons.The recruitment of Rava is more along the lines of our mindset, hoping that him or someone like him will surprise us if given an opportunity.
 

Crush

Coach
Messages
10,412
He's grown on me, Not only does he put in but he's Improving all the time & should only get better probably because he "wants" to get better. Would I prefer a Semi, Addo Carr, Rapana or Oates sure but at the moment our recruitment are most likely not going to get one of these types for various reasons.The recruitment of Rava is more along the lines of our mindset, hoping that him or someone like him will surprise us if given an opportunity.
I'm driving the Rava bus. Get on board mate. I reckon by the end of the season he will be one of the best wingers in the comp. He's got a long way to go obviously, a very long way.
Watch this space.
 

RufusRex

Post Whore
Messages
62,231
i dont mind Rava yet ..
Always happy to give a bloke more than a couple of games ..
He needs to cut out the mistakes for sure
But he needs better support from his team as well ..

Watch the cover/protection he gets when contesting bombs .. he is typically jumping against 2 opposition players.
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
8,944
How many of them do you actually think were Mary?

Definately not Rein/Nene who were all contract or behavior based ... Millward the man behind that saving mary from himself on the Rein thing.
Mary was in the papers trying to get Mez to backflip on the panthers deal too.

So it is really down to Thommo or Dugan.

that Dugan one had a lot to do with Millward also with statements along position etc.

Thommo you might be right on.
I dont believe for one minute the press and the press statements to cover your arse and that we would be privy too how the decision came to be made.
Mary might not handle all the negs or nuts and bolts of the hows and why's and how much...but I am told he has a lot of say on who plays in his team at the club whether it is the final decision after recommendations etc..who knows. But one player manager tells me it is so.
Millward's job is to get the ones he likes or wishes, get em done and fit em all in the cap.
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
8,944
All of them were on Millward, and if any of those guys remained here they’d still be in their position (as evidenced by the fact that Aitken is still part of the 17, as well as the fact that Sims played middle until JT left).

if you’re ‘not sold’ on McGuire and you back Mary, you’ve lost the plot and completely missed the point of this thread.
Did not say I back Mary..in fact many times I hold him to account, so your just interpreting that way for your own sake of having a shot.
Just not sold on McGuire as a good coach thats all or whether I'd be delighted to have him. My opinion. His attacking football is almost non existant. Yeh he is a disciplinarian and shouts a lot. He had a great roster in 2014 but got the job done with a boring style of bash and barge with big forwards and a great kicker. Game has altered slightly since then but you need to tell Mary that.

You've just proven you have lost the plot holding Millward as fully responsible for our roster as if Mary is in the dark and just deals with the cards he is dealt.
You know little..but Mary might be happy you interpret it that way as then he becomed devoid of any blame
 
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Messages
2,866
Which 3 did we pass up on that are better credentialled than Mary.
I can think of Hasler..OK...would agree there
Bellamy we tried for and Bennett again I think and missed out
Cleary we passed on and can see why
McGuire not sold on yet.

Who else?..or who were you referring to
That's easy.
Demetriou, Cleary (Clearly passed on us - in talks and he knocked back the position because we did not agree on the issue of control), Bellamy (was never going to leave Melbourne) McGuire, even Toovey .
I won't even underscore Hasler, Henry, Potter and others who are also better than Mary.
Whether you agree or not, all these guys are streets ahead of McGregor.
There has never been any urgency to upgrade the coaching function.
Even our assistant coaches have no coaching pedigree.
The principle is very simple.
As one of the premier clubs, we should hire the very best coach that we can.
McGregor has never fitted the bill.
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
8,944
i dont mind Rava yet ..
Always happy to give a bloke more than a couple of games ..
He needs to cut out the mistakes for sure
But he needs better support from his team as well ..

Watch the cover/protection he gets when contesting bombs .. he is typically jumping against 2 opposition players.
So true, the above... and looks most likely to bust the line but probably scared to lose the ball ATM
People on here say he is slow......I have never seen him given open air opportunity to prove it yet so I dont know how they can conclude that. When I do happy to agree or disagree with that although he has been slow to turn and chase on occassions..I suspect he is still in the mode for that is someone elses job to get that so he can be ready for a hit up. It will click soon I hope.
Our sliding shallow run around em attack and having Euie inside of him leaves him only options of finishing a try like last week or bashing and barging in our end hit ups.
Did not Samy say he was one of the quickest apart from Dufty?
 
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