Jdb case

[possm]

Yawn ... why dont people understand that standing someone down on full pay is not passing judgement on their guilt/innocence. It is simply a risk mitigation strategy.

The easiest way to understand it is this ... Teacher charged with being a kiddie fiddler .. They are entitled to the same presumption of innocence as Jack? yes! .. does it make sense to have them in a classroom teaching? Absolutely not !! Stood down on full pay pending the case.

If you are happy for Jack to not be stood down then the concept you are supporting is precisely the same as the pedo priest or the pedo teacher - just taken to the Nth degree.

If that is a little to confrontational for you then bank teller charged with theft etc etc


The NRL have the right to do whatever they think is in the best interest of the game.

How ridiculous! The analogy would be more suited to a CONVICTED rapist being a guard in a women's prison.

The issue is that the ARLC/NRL did not have a contract with De Belin and yet retrospectively introduced rules that prevented him playing football. This only this works, is if the ARLC/NRL and De Belin come to an agreement and then announcement comes from De Belin that he does not want this to be a distraction for his team.

I call the ARLC/NRL as using bully tactics.

 

[possm]

Correct me if I'm wrong even if cleared he would not be able to play this weekend.
Teams need to be selected tomorrow with the Mandatory 21 players selected.
He is currently suspended so can not be named.
If cleared to play that would be Wednesday.
We would then need to apply for an exception for him to play.
Would the NRL grant it?

If De Belin is successful in his case, his legal representatives may request the court to order an exemption and so if that happened, the NRL would be required to comply.

 

[getsmarty]

NRL boss to take stand in de Belin’s ‘no-fault stand down’ trial
NRL Premiership

• April 16, 2019 10:06am
• by By Steve Zemek
• Source: AAP

NRL CEO Todd Greenberg is expected to take the stand in Federal Court on Tuesday.Source: AAP
NRL CEO Todd Greenberg is expected to take the stand in the Federal Court on Tuesday morning as Jack de Belin challenges the game’s no-fault stand down rule.
De Belin is suing the NRL and ARL Commission after he was indefinitely suspended under the game’s crackdown on misbehaviour.

The St George Illawarra star forward has been charged with the aggravated sexual assault of a 19-year-old woman.

Round 6
He has pleaded not guilty and his criminal case is scheduled to be mentioned in Wollongong Local Court on Wednesday.

D-Day looms for de Belin

0:45
Under the rules, which were rubber-stamped by the ARL Commission in March, any player charged with a serious crime which carries a jail sentence of 11 years or more can be stood down automatically.

The NRL’s barrister Alan Sullivan QC on Monday told Justice Melissa Perry that the game’s Net Promoter Score had plummeted following an off-season marred by controversy and off-field incidents.

The court heard that since the NRL began using the index, which measures how likely someone is to recommend rugby league to a friend or family member, in 2017, they had observed a correlation between it and crowds and television ratings.

Both Greenberg and NRL chief commercial officer Andrew Abdo are expected to give evidence.

The court heard on Monday that De Belin and his management feared that if he is not allowed to resume playing immediately, it will have an adverse affect on his career.

His barrister Martin Einfeld QC said that there was no guarantee his criminal case will be finalised before the end of next season, when he comes off contract, and two years out of the game would be disastrous for his livelihood. The case before Justice Perry is scheduled to continue on Tuesday and Wednesday.


https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...l/news-story/3d8394f8bb229e9118aa011bf1b624bf

 

[Willow]

As for taking you seriously....well none of us do!

I can assure that you don't speak for everyone. Just my observations and I'm not taking sides, but there are better ways to conduct an argument.

This business of constantly belittling your opponent, making fun of mental health, telling them to shut up, trying to bully them into leaving the room and then topping it off by making out you have the support of everyone else in the room, doesn't do your argument any favours at all.

 

[WoyD4LWoy]

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...eemed-largely-irrelevant-20190416-p51elp.html

 

[st penguin]

When we say retrospective, it means that Jack's incident already took place. So the nrl knows what they need to do in order to exclude him from playing. They can formulate a rule that captures Jack's incident because they already know what he did.

Like everything about this case, nothing is clear cut.

The Nrl already had the power to stand down JDB under the existing code of conduct. The only thing that really changed was the mandatory stand down for serious crime.

Nrl can easily provide examples of standing down players before trial.

 

[Saints Forever]

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...eemed-largely-irrelevant-20190416-p51elp.html

NRL is in for a whole world of hurt.

They have a right to create rules, but the rules must be fair and reasonable.

No procedural fairness.

See you in 2 weeks Jack.

 

[Saints Forever]

*Deleted*

Einfeld will torch him

 

[WoyD4LWoy]

Einfeld will torch him

Indeed he will

 

[ST Tangles 01]

I think Abdo is the one Einfield will go after.
He has said a few things that directly contradict a no fault stand down policy.

 

[JamesRustle]

Yawn ... why dont people understand that standing someone down on full pay is not passing judgement on their guilt/innocence. It is simply a risk mitigation strategy.

The easiest way to understand it is this ... Teacher charged with being a kiddie fiddler .. They are entitled to the same presumption of innocence as Jack? yes! .. does it make sense to have them in a classroom teaching? Absolutely not !! Stood down on full pay pending the case.

If you are happy for Jack to not be stood down then the concept you are supporting is precisely the same as the pedo priest or the pedo teacher - just taken to the Nth degree.

If that is a little to confrontational for you then bank teller charged with theft etc etc


The NRL have the right to do whatever they think is in the best interest of the game.

Yeah, but in all of those instances you have put up, the alleged offender would be put back into their workplace with the same temptation being present. JDB would be on a paddock with blokes, and unlikely to be tempted to re-offend.

I don't disagree with the NRL standing him down. I don't agree with the reactionary way they went about it. I am glad JDB is challenging it. If he is successful, the NRL executive will look very silly and heads should roll (especially Beattie for his ill considered words in an interview "If I was involved in a matter like this - which I wouldn't be - but if I was, I would stand down").

 

[JamesRustle]

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...eemed-largely-irrelevant-20190416-p51elp.html

The Net Promoter Score (NPS) probably dipped on the back of Hayne, Beattie, there being no footy being played, different participants in the survey group from last time, or any number of other factors.

If this is what the NRL is relying on, I would think even Denis Denuto could tear apart its legitimacy.

 

[Dragsters]

The Net Promoter Score (NPS) probably dipped on the back of Hayne, Beattie, there being no footy being played, different participants in the survey group from last time, or any number of other factors.

If this is what the NRL is relying on, I would think even Denis Denuto could tear apart its legitimacy.

True.

Should be compared with SPLY...

 

[SnowDragon]

The Net Promoter Score (NPS) probably dipped on the back of Hayne, Beattie, there being no footy being played, different participants in the survey group from last time, or any number of other factors.

If this is what the NRL is relying on, I would think even Denis Denuto could tear apart its legitimacy.

Is there any truth to the rumour that Dennis Denuto has been advising Peter Beattie on what statements to make in the press since joining the NRL?

 

[TruSaint]

Will be interesting to see how this plays out. NPS would be one part of a larger argument put forward by the NRL I would think.

I am not privy to a player contract registered with the NRL, but would be logical to assume that under the category / clause of "code of contract ", etc, that provisions such as " amended by time to time " or words to that effect to allow for changing standards, would be applied.

If anyone can find a link, a also believe that the vast majority of the NRL franchisees were in favour of this stand down policy in principle.

I will say this though irrespective of the result. I cannot see Jack playing if he wins this case against the policy. I cant see how after a court battle, with still a much more important criminal battle ahead of him, the attention this now has, the headlines it will make when / if he runs on the field is good for anyone.

He's been training, but he's not match fit. Big difference. Let's also take into account the mental anguish this has taken on him, and what lays ahead.

FWIW, i stand by the policy and this ts overdue. Timing was awkward, but when is such a decision not.

 

[Willow]

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...eemed-largely-irrelevant-20190416-p51elp.html

From the article...

De Belin’s barrister, Martin Einfeld QC, claimed the evidence should be inadmissible as it has "no proper foundation" and was misleading when coupled with television ratings. He claimed that factors outside de Belin’s police charges, including other on or off-field incidents, could have contributed to the drop in the NPS rating. The debate about the admissability of the evidence, or how much weight it should be given, continued into Tuesday morning’s court session.

Justice Melissa Perry said the NPS was "incapable of bearing any probative weight" and that the "speculative nature" of the evidence meant it should be limited to helping determine how much consideration Abdo gave it as a contributor to the NRL’s decision to implement its new rule.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's always good to see what real lawyers think about this.

I always thought the health of the game was the responsibility of the NRL. When the NPS goes up, do they give all the players a bonus?

Surely, any drop in ratings or attendance is essentially to do with the decisions made in regards to numerous factors; including the choice of venues, scheduling, pricing, advertising, rule changes and how the administration manage the media (in particular, the negative news outlets). Some may even suggest the NRL are the problem.

 

[possm]

Will be interesting to see how this plays out. NPS would be one part of a larger argument put forward by the NRL I would think.

I am not privy to a player contract registered with the NRL, but would be logical to assume that under the category / clause of "code of contract ", etc, that provisions such as " amended by time to time " or words to that effect to allow for changing standards, would be applied.

If anyone can find a link, a also believe that the vast majority of the NRL franchisees were in favour of this stand down policy in principle.

I will say this though irrespective of the result. I cannot see Jack playing if he wins this case against the policy. I cant see how after a court battle, with still a much more important criminal battle ahead of him, the attention this now has, the headlines it will make when / if he runs on the field is good for anyone.

He's been training, but he's not match fit. Big difference. Let's also take into account the mental anguish this has taken on him, and what lays ahead.

FWIW, i stand by the policy and this ts overdue. Timing was awkward, but when is such a decision not.

Sorry TrueSaint I can't agree. The new rule is a substantial change to the current rule in fact it is such a big change that a new rule had to be introduced and then revised by order of a court based on the lack of proper procedure. The new rule and the manner in which it has been introduced will have to stand on its own merits and not rely on a mere tweak to existing rules.

I'd say De Belin will win this matter and then go on to play until his legal fight is complete.

 

[TruSaint]

Sorry TrueSaint I can't agree. The new rule is a substantial change to the current rule in fact it is such a big change that a new rule had to be introduced and then revised by order of a court based on the lack of proper procedure. The new rule and the manner in which it has been introduced will have to stand on its own merits and not rely on a mere tweak to existing rules.

I'd say De Belin will win this matter and then go on to play until his legal fight is complete.

We agree to disagree.

Its a heated and healthy debate. LIke i said, I am for the new stand down policy. However, I am not a legal expert.

Its determination is imminent now, so i will let this play out, and chat after the decision.

 

[willzy91]

We agree to disagree.

Its a heated and healthy debate. LIke i said, I am for the new stand down policy. However, I am not a legal expert.

Its determination is imminent now, so i will let this play out, and chat after the decision.

I thought there was another day in court before a decision was to be made?

 

[TruSaint]

I thought there was another day in court before a decision was to be made?

Correct.

I was just saying it was imminent.