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News Do you care if Israel Folau returns to the NRL?

Do you care if Israel Folau returns to the NRL?

  • I want him back in the NRL.

    Votes: 60 17.2%
  • I don't want him back in the NRL.

    Votes: 113 32.4%
  • I couldn't care less if he returns or not.

    Votes: 176 50.4%

  • Total voters
    349

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,803
My answer to that is that his employers need think again about whether it's their role monitor their employees values .. or any other employer that might be heading down that road ..
.

As a public facing organisation that is built on community participation and com u it’s support you’d have to be pretty stupid to think that any sporting body isnt going to have a code of conduct that includes inclusion, respect and diversity and would expect its employees to abide by that code. It’s not being PC, it’s being what society expects in a country like Australia.
 
Messages
15,545
This really is a storm in a teacup imo.

If RA had've come out at the very beginning and said something along the lines of -

"We are aware of what Israel has posted on his twitter feed. They are his beliefs as a Christian and he is entitled to believe whatever he wants, but his beliefs are at odds with the beliefs of RA and it's sponsors."

I think this whole thing would've just gone away.

Anyway, glad it's Union dealing with this and not League. Hopefully we can learn from the outcome so we could handle a similar situation in a better manner down the track.
 

Shark62

Juniors
Messages
2,497
My answer to that is that his employers need think again about whether it's their role monitor their employees values .. or any other employer that might be heading down that road ..

The Greens have taken over the ABC, the Labour Party, and now the ARU apparently!

It's says a lot that out of types of 'sinners' Izzy listed, it's only insulting homosexual that's triggered the thought police.

I say all this a someone who loves nothing more than a root in the arse at the Maroubra toilets.
What a load of rubbish. It’s 2019 mate. Move on. Rampant homophobic tripe like this is no longer tolerated and for good reason.
 
Messages
14,204
Israel Folau is a great player. If he played full back or centre he could carve up the NRL. He would be a force in Origin and attract lots of union viewers to his club and Origin games.

But a further bonus to having Israel Folau back in the NRL is that his departure would screw the Waratahs, the Wallabies, and interest in rugby union in Australia.
I wouldn't want him back playing Rugby League as i regard the man as a Judas. For 2 reasons. First of all taking the 30 pieces of silver and going to fumbleball and when he got bored with fumbleball he said he would return to the NRL then when union came in and offered him another 30 pieces of silver to took that.
The man is not to be trusted.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,767
I really shouldn't have to make this clear, but in society today guilt by association has become a very dangerous thing and the level of discussion in society has devolved so much that I think it's necessary for me to make it clear that I do not agree with Israel Folau's opinions on homosexuality. I also fundamentally disagree with Folau on whether or not homosexuals go to heaven or not. To give you an idea I fundamentally disagree that god, heaven, and hell exist at all let alone who is or isn't going to hell or why they may or may not be going there.

I also want to make it clear that I don't really have an opinion on whether or not he has broken the ARU's code of conduct, if he has or hasn't is totally beside the point I'm attempting to make.

Now that I've got all that out of the way, I think that the way that the ARU and NRL has reacted to Izzy's opinions is indicative of a very dangerous path that society as a whole is being lead down, which is extremely quickly leading to our society destroying hard fought fundamental principals such as freedom of speech and freedom of expression and is (rather ironically) ostracising people from society in the name of inclusiveness.

At the bare bones of the issue Izzy hasn't actually harassed anybody or actively discriminated against anybody, just simply expressed an opinion that isn't held by the majority and many find offensive, and the public response to that has been to ostracise him from greater society as much as possible and to attempt to ruin his career, in my opinion that is just another example of an extremely concerning pattern of behaviour in society of total intolerance of minority opinions that is tacitly working to establish a collection of protected ideologies and opinions in society while forcibly working to weed out those that it disagrees with.

That is an extremely scary thing and a terrible precedent to set because it fundamentally undermines why freedom of speech and expression exists at all: to protect people with offensive opinions from retaliation from the majority for the opinions that they hold!

Also where does this stop, as a society we know for a fact that basically every person that follows the sects of Christianity that are popular amongst the Pacific Islander communities holds the same opinions as Izzy, they may not express them like Izzy has (they're probably to scared to express them now), but we know that the vast majority of them hold them, so are we going to start ostracising them as well?
For all intents and purposes they've all committed the same thought crime that Izzy has! And if we're going to ostracise them for that offensive opinion are we going to start ostracising other people for other offensive opinions that they hold?
Then the question becomes how long before people are being ostracised for opinions that you hold?!

Again I want to make it clear that I don't agree with what I assume are Izzy's attitudes towards homosexual people, but even though I disagree with those opinions I find the way he is being treated for his opinions just as abhorrent as the way that many people were treated for their positive attitudes to homosexual people not that long ago when Izzy's opinions where the majority and the (for want of a better word) pro homosexual peoples opinions where the offensive minority opinion, and think that it's bloody lucky that by and large people that held those opinions weren't treated as Izzy has been treated because the social consequences of doing so would have meant that the acceptance of homosexual people in society would have taken a lot longer.
 

gerg

Juniors
Messages
2,277
Is there actually such a thing as freedom of speech in Australia Dane? I stopped reading at that point so apologies if your post was really very good, which I'm sure it was.
 

Shark62

Juniors
Messages
2,497
I really shouldn't have to make this clear, but in society today guilt by association has become a very dangerous thing and the level of discussion in society has devolved so much that I think it's necessary for me to make it clear that I do not agree with Israel Folau's opinions on homosexuality. I also fundamentally disagree with Folau on whether or not homosexuals go to heaven or not. To give you an idea I fundamentally disagree that god, heaven, and hell exist at all let alone who is or isn't going to hell or why they may or may not be going there.

I also want to make it clear that I don't really have an opinion on whether or not he has broken the ARU's code of conduct, if he has or hasn't is totally beside the point I'm attempting to make.

Now that I've got all that out of the way, I think that the way that the ARU and NRL has reacted to Izzy's opinions is indicative of a very dangerous path that society as a whole is being lead down, which is extremely quickly leading to our society destroying hard fought fundamental principals such as freedom of speech and freedom of expression and is (rather ironically) ostracising people from society in the name of inclusiveness.

At the bare bones of the issue Izzy hasn't actually harassed anybody or actively discriminated against anybody, just simply expressed an opinion that isn't held by the majority and many find offensive, and the public response to that has been to ostracise him from greater society as much as possible and to attempt to ruin his career, in my opinion that is just another example of an extremely concerning pattern of behaviour in society of total intolerance of minority opinions that is tacitly working to establish a collection of protected ideologies and opinions in society while forcibly working to weed out those that it disagrees with.

That is an extremely scary thing and a terrible precedent to set because it fundamentally undermines why freedom of speech and expression exists at all: to protect people with offensive opinions from retaliation from the majority for the opinions that they hold!

Also where does this stop, as a society we know for a fact that basically every person that follows the sects of Christianity that are popular amongst the Pacific Islander communities holds the same opinions as Izzy, they may not express them like Izzy has (they're probably to scared to express them now), but we know that the vast majority of them hold them, so are we going to start ostracising them as well?
For all intents and purposes they've all committed the same thought crime that Izzy has! And if we're going to ostracise them for that offensive opinion are we going to start ostracising other people for other offensive opinions that they hold?
Then the question becomes how long before people are being ostracised for opinions that you hold?!

Again I want to make it clear that I don't agree with what I assume are Izzy's attitudes towards homosexual people, but even though I disagree with those opinions I find the way he is being treated for his opinions just as abhorrent as the way that many people were treated for their positive attitudes to homosexual people not that long ago when Izzy's opinions where the majority and the (for want of a better word) pro homosexual peoples opinions where the offensive minority opinion, and think that it's bloody lucky that by and large people that held those opinions weren't treated as Izzy has been treated because the social consequences of doing so would have meant that the acceptance of homosexual people in society would have taken a lot longer.
Bullshit. His comments cause harm to people who are lgbti particularly young Polynesian gay men try to deal with their sexuality. To have a sporting icon make such stupid comments in defiance of his contract and his employers values is simply unacceptable. He chose to make the comment. It’s his problem
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,803
I really shouldn't have to make this clear, but in society today guilt by association has become a very dangerous thing and the level of discussion in society has devolved so much that I think it's necessary for me to make it clear that I do not agree with Israel Folau's opinions on homosexuality. I also fundamentally disagree with Folau on whether or not homosexuals go to heaven or not. To give you an idea I fundamentally disagree that god, heaven, and hell exist at all let alone who is or isn't going to hell or why they may or may not be going there.

I also want to make it clear that I don't really have an opinion on whether or not he has broken the ARU's code of conduct, if he has or hasn't is totally beside the point I'm attempting to make.

Now that I've got all that out of the way, I think that the way that the ARU and NRL has reacted to Izzy's opinions is indicative of a very dangerous path that society as a whole is being lead down, which is extremely quickly leading to our society destroying hard fought fundamental principals such as freedom of speech and freedom of expression and is (rather ironically) ostracising people from society in the name of inclusiveness.

At the bare bones of the issue Izzy hasn't actually harassed anybody or actively discriminated against anybody, just simply expressed an opinion that isn't held by the majority and many find offensive, and the public response to that has been to ostracise him from greater society as much as possible and to attempt to ruin his career, in my opinion that is just another example of an extremely concerning pattern of behaviour in society of total intolerance of minority opinions that is tacitly working to establish a collection of protected ideologies and opinions in society while forcibly working to weed out those that it disagrees with.

That is an extremely scary thing and a terrible precedent to set because it fundamentally undermines why freedom of speech and expression exists at all: to protect people with offensive opinions from retaliation from the majority for the opinions that they hold!

Also where does this stop, as a society we know for a fact that basically every person that follows the sects of Christianity that are popular amongst the Pacific Islander communities holds the same opinions as Izzy, they may not express them like Izzy has (they're probably to scared to express them now), but we know that the vast majority of them hold them, so are we going to start ostracising them as well?
For all intents and purposes they've all committed the same thought crime that Izzy has! And if we're going to ostracise them for that offensive opinion are we going to start ostracising other people for other offensive opinions that they hold?
Then the question becomes how long before people are being ostracised for opinions that you hold?!

Again I want to make it clear that I don't agree with what I assume are Izzy's attitudes towards homosexual people, but even though I disagree with those opinions I find the way he is being treated for his opinions just as abhorrent as the way that many people were treated for their positive attitudes to homosexual people not that long ago when Izzy's opinions where the majority and the (for want of a better word) pro homosexual peoples opinions where the offensive minority opinion, and think that it's bloody lucky that by and large people that held those opinions weren't treated as Izzy has been treated because the social consequences of doing so would have meant that the acceptance of homosexual people in society would have taken a lot longer.

I wonder if there were germans arguing the same when the nazi party first started to gain popularity on the back of blaming Jews for the countries problems? Reality is any speech that hurts, ostracises or damages in any way should not be tolerated. If you dont call it out you are complicit at some level. Matters not if it is religious doctrine, beliefs learnt from parents of just plain hatred behind it.
The behaviour you walk past is the behaviour you accept.
 

Shark62

Juniors
Messages
2,497
I wonder if there were germans arguing the same when the nazi party first started to gain popularity on the back of blaming Jews for the countries problems? Reality is any speech that hurts, ostracises or damages in any way should not be tolerated. If you dont call it out you are complicit at some level. Matters not if it is religious doctrine, beliefs learnt from parents of just plain hatred behind it.
The behaviour you walk past is the behaviour you accept.
That last sentence is a classic. Well played sir!
 

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