17th TEAM

[Stallion]

Are you ever going to come up with anything new, or are you just going to assert the same stuff (most of which has been debunked) over and over?

By the way, did I mention that the Bears folded the CC bid and are no longer pursuing a license for the the CC anyway, and as such the CC Bears no longer exist and can't join the NRL because they aren't bidding!

I'm pretty sure I've mentioned that multiple times, but you keep bringing them up anyway despite the fact that they are dead.

That doesn't mean that it is not a valid idea or strategy. Remembering plenty of mistakes have been made and fixing them up can occur! The logic of the Central Coast Bears is very valid . It adverts an ever increasing vacuum for the code on northern Sydney.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I cant find an Annual report for the LC, what sort of revenue and profit do they have?

I was more referring to their assets. They own their ground and the surrounding land. They have developed a shopping centre and precinct that earns them revenue on top of the large leagues club. It is a very handy and unique position to be in for a second teir club and also a unique position to be in compared to the other expansion hopefulls. (.i.e. running a successful and historic football club, owning assets, in a region that the NRL need an additional team in - it all adds up very well for the Dolphins)

 

[titoelcolombiano]

But the money is all from its Leagues club, does the NRL want to keep going down that path?

No, they own their own ground and surrounding land. They have developed a shopping centre and precinct that they earn revenue from. It is a very impressive setup, especially for a second teir team.

https://www.visitmoretonbayregion.com.au/directory/dolphins-central

 

[mongoose]

No, they own their own ground and surrounding land. They have developed a shopping centre and precinct that they earn revenue from. It is a very impressive setup, especially for a second teir team.

https://www.visitmoretonbayregion.com.au/directory/dolphins-central

Oh yeah, I forgot about that Shopping centre... i should know, my folks live just around the corner.

 

[gUt]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06...erth-but-nrl-team-in-wa-some-way-off/11214798

As the State of Origin show rolls into WA, one thing stands in the way of an NRL team in Perth

It will be history in the making. An NRL State of Origin match — arguably the biggest sporting rivalry in Australia — will take place in Perth this weekend.

Holding an Origin game at a neutral venue is not a new thing, but it will be first time Western Australia has hosted the marquee event.

As the Origin show rolls into town, and with the game an effective sell-out, the inevitable discussion about whether Perth should have its own NRL side will rear its head.

The expansion of rugby league into staunch AFL territory is not a new conversation.

Indeed, the WA Government has made clear its desire to see an NRL side located in Perth whenever any expansion takes place.

That is not going to happen until at least 2023, when the current broadcast deal is renegotiated, given uncertainty around the magnitude of the next deal.

The struggle for fans and funding
The NRL is currently enjoying its biggest broadcast deal on record, valued at $1.8 billion until 2022, but there are concerns this may be the high-water mark for NRL broadcast rights.

Foxtel — a key player in any rights deal — has already flagged it would have to prioritize some sports over others as it struggles to adapt to a highly competitive market disrupted by streaming services like Netflix.

The size of the next deal will directly impact whether the code decides to add a 17th team, relocate one of its struggling Sydney sides to a different state or maintain the status quo.

Unlike the AFL, which enjoys huge match attendance figures, the NRL struggles to attract large numbers of fans to games.

As a result, clubs depend heavily on the Australian Rugby League Commission for funding.

In 2016, only three teams made a profit across the NRL and only one of those was in New South Wales, where 10 of the 16 teams are based.

The arguments for a team in Perth are clear: A stand-alone timeslot, which in broadcast land is a strong bargaining chip when re-negotiating its rights deal; and a permanent NRL presence in a city dominated by AFL.

But the overwhelming concern for any club, new or relocated, is whether there is the support in Western Australia to sustain it.

Overcoming history and a worrying trend
That is not to say there is not a base of supporters — four of the five highest attended sporting events at Perth Oval were rugby league matches, including the 2016 Test Match between the Kangaroos and New Zealand.

Whether that level of support, or anything even close to it, could be sustained is the big question.

The Western Reds, Perth's only NRL side to date, attracted strong crowds at the WACA Ground until it defected to the Super League and was ultimately axed as part of a peace deal between the rival codes.

But the recent history of ball sports outside of the AFL in WA will not be attractive reading for any prospective side.

The Western Force was axed from Super Rugby in 2017 on the back of poor results and dwindling attendances, and the Perth Glory — despite sitting top of the A-League for most of last season — has battled to attract crowds of more than 10,000 on a consistent basis.

In a city where AFL sides West Coast and Fremantle dwarf all sporting opposition, attracting ongoing crowds for a league franchise will be a challenge.

This makes the next broadcast deal crucial in determining if Perth will be home to a NRL side in the near future.

We are four years away from a decision, but the conversation is well and truly underway.

 

[Perth Red]

"Whether that level of support, or anything even close to it, could be sustained is the big question."

The problem with these sort of questions, a bit like the player depth one, is that they are largely unanswerable until you try. What will be important is that there is a strong business case for if the crowds do drop or don't reach hoped for levels so the club doesn't find itself in financial stress. Like player depth, the answer is not is there enough, but do we have a strategy ready to go if we find there isn't enough?

 

[grouch]

Australian Rugby is on its knees. The Western Force have already gone... Foxtel is slashing it's budget for the sport. There's your players problem solved. Scoop them up

 

[titoelcolombiano]

"Whether that level of support, or anything even close to it, could be sustained is the big question."

The problem with these sort of questions, a bit like the player depth one, is that they are largely unanswerable until you try. What will be important is that there is a strong business case for if the crowds do drop or don't reach hoped for levels so the club doesn't find itself in financial stress. Like player depth, the answer is not is there enough, but do we have a strategy ready to go if we find there isn't enough?

I thought along similar lines when I read that.

The thing is though that both WA Reds and Western Force were well supported and were axed essentially due to trouble at HQ in both sports. If both still existed they would both still be sustainable.

 

[The Great Dane]

That doesn't mean that it is not a valid idea or strategy. Remembering plenty of mistakes have been made and fixing them up can occur! The logic of the Central Coast Bears is very valid . It adverts an ever increasing vacuum for the code on northern Sydney.

It's great that you think that the idea is valid (by almost every metric it's not, but that's beside the point), but we know that you think the idea is valid, you tell us ad-nuseam, and you don't need to tell us again, and though the idea may be valid in your opinion, it doesn't actually exist as an entity that is bidding for a license anymore. So holding the idea up as a realistic possibility is not only a pointless waste of time, but doing it all the time is extremely annoying.

Lets see if I can build some sort of analogy for you-

I think that the NRL bankrolling a team in Hawaii is a very valid idea, but no team in Hawaii exists for them to bankroll, and as far as we know there's no bid from Hawaii, so though it may be a very valid idea I don't bring it up as an actual possibility all the time because currently it's not an actual possibility and I personally don't have the power to make it one.

Now imagine how annoying it would be if I went around into every thread and just popped in to say 'this is all good, but what about Hawaii!? Hawaii is a much better idea' and derailed every thread with talk about the hypothetical idea of a team in Hawaii, when you (and others) were trying to talk about other things?.

You'd find that pretty annoying wouldn't you?

If you really want to talk about the Bears all the time then resurrect one of the old Bears threads from when they were an actual bid, or better yet start a new one discussing the Bears plans to try and partner with one of Perth bids, because last I heard that was what they were up to (well apart from trying to cannibalise any Sydney club that's in financial trouble)

 

[The Great Dane]

I was more referring to their assets. They own their ground and the surrounding land. They have developed a shopping centre and precinct that earns them revenue on top of the large leagues club. It is a very handy and unique position to be in for a second teir club and also a unique position to be in compared to the other expansion hopefulls. (.i.e. running a successful and historic football club, owning assets, in a region that the NRL need an additional team in - it all adds up very well for the Dolphins)

I don't deny that the Dolphins assets are great, but their NRL bid is lacking.

They'd basically be the Brisbane version of Manly, and I think that if we are honest we can all agree that's not what the NRL needs in a second Brisbane team.

Any new Brisbane team needs to be representing a large part of the city and playing out of a centralised location, and realistically that location is almost certainly going to be Suncorp.

Put simply, Redcliffe/Morton bay doesn't represent a large part of the city and Dolphin Oval isn't in a centralised location in the city (and to support an NRL team it'd probably need a bit of work done on it anyway), so really the Dolphins aren't a very good option for a second NRL club in Brisbane.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I don't deny that the Dolphins assets are great, but their NRL bid is lacking.

They'd basically be the Brisbane version of Manly, and I think that if we are honest we can all agree that's not what the NRL needs in a second Brisbane team.

Any new Brisbane team needs to be representing a large part of the city and playing out of a centralised location, and realistically that location is almost certainly going to be Suncorp.

Put simply, Redcliffe/Morton bay doesn't represent a large part of the city and Dolphin Oval isn't in a centralised location in the city (and to support an NRL team it'd probably need a bit of work done on it anyway), so really the Dolphins aren't a very good option for a second NRL club in Brisbane.

I think you'll find that they, unlike Manly will be willing to play at a major stadium (Suncorp) and don't worry, they will get plenty of support up here. They won't be pigeonholed into the peninsular. You can lock it in - Redcliffe have been quietly in the ear of the NRL for about a decade and they are doing everything the NRL need them to do to get the nod.

 

[TheEroticGamer]

The main reason for the NRL wanting a second Brisbane side is to have a game at Suncorp every week. Redcliffe will be NRL's Port Adelaide. Successful lower grade side with a lot of history being promoted to the top competition to strengthen the sport's grip on the city with a game at the main stadium every week. They will be rebranded as something like North Brisbane or East Coast Dolphins and that'll be that.

 

[Stallion]

The main reason for the NRL wanting a second Brisbane side is to have a game at Suncorp every week. Redcliffe will be NRL's Port Adelaide. Successful lower grade side with a lot of history being promoted to the top competition to strengthen the sport's grip on the city with a game at the main stadium every week. They will be rebranded as something like North Brisbane or East Coast Dolphins and that'll be that.

Finally some decent progressive and accurate comment! Others need to take note. Well done.

 

[flippikat]

The main reason for the NRL wanting a second Brisbane side is to have a game at Suncorp every week. Redcliffe will be NRL's Port Adelaide. Successful lower grade side with a lot of history being promoted to the top competition to strengthen the sport's grip on the city with a game at the main stadium every week. They will be rebranded as something like North Brisbane or East Coast Dolphins and that'll be that.

I hope that's the plan if the Dolphins are the NRL's choice.. we need to be wary of suburban-ising Brisbane too much. If the Dolphins can hook into the "I love league but not the Broncos" market in Brisbane, that's a big boost for them.

 

[flippikat]

Part of the problem here is there's little clarity on what bids are definitely on the table, what bids have petered out, and what bids are just smoke & mirrors.

I can't blame the bids themselves, because the NRL hasn't formally called for bids - but it's weird to be talking about some past bids like the Central Coast Bears, or Central Queensland when they seem to have petered-out because they've virtually given up holding their breath.

Worse still, there's been a swarm of ideas for a 2nd Brisbane team - something most of us agree is urgently needed.. but the bids range from rather detailed plans (Bombers, with logo & colours sorted out) right through to whispers of 2 or more Queensland Cup clubs pondering pooling resources for a shot at the bigtime.

Does anyone know the "lay of the land" currently as to where all the potential bids are at right now?

 

[The Great Dane]

I think you'll find that they, unlike Manly will be willing to play at a major stadium (Suncorp) and don't worry, they will get plenty of support up here. They won't be pigeonholed into the peninsular. You can lock it in - Redcliffe have been quietly in the ear of the NRL for about a decade and they are doing everything the NRL need them to do to get the nod.

I see no evidence that suggests that any of that is true whatsoever, and it seems to me that you want it to be true more than it is actually true.

Until the NRL actually announces a bidding process and all the options make themselves known you can't lock anything in, because though the Dolphins may seem the best bid now for all you know there're two or three bids that shit all over the Dolphins bid that are quietly waiting in the wings.

 

[The Great Dane]

Does anyone know the "lay of the land" currently as to where all the potential bids are at right now?

I know what's public.

Brisbane: The Dolphins, Western corridor/Ipswich, and Bombers are all officially bidding (and all of them are pretty crap bids in my opinion), and there're at least 6 separate rumors that I know of about clubs and consortium that are supposedly interested in bidding.

WA: There are a lot of groups that have expressed interest in bidding that may or may not actually have a bid (Tony Sage, one of the old Reds owners who's name slips my mind, a consortium that the Bears were in talks with, etc,), and on paper at least the Pirates are bidding, but there's a question whether or not the Pirates (that are WARL owned) can actually bid at all because technically they are owned by the NRL through the WARL and that is a conflict of interest.

NZ: Unless something has changed the South Pacific Cyclones are the only NZ based bid that is bidding (but they aren't really an NZ bid, and they're a terrible idea), but there's rumours about at least three other groups from Auckland, Wellington, and Christchurch, that I know of.

PNG: Though the NRL bid has gone quite since the Hunters joined the Q cup, I think it's inevitable that they, the Hunters, or some other group/s will bid.

Though they've gone quite the Brothers have said they are also bidding, their bid isn't a geographical bid though so it doesn't really fit neatly in any category.

CQ and CC Bears have both folded, but there's rumours of another group that wants to launch a CQ bid, and the Bears are definitely looking for partners to launch another bid (they've been linked with groups in Brisbane and Perth in particular).

Finally there are a ton of proposed and rumoured bids from all over the place as well (literally from Adelaide and Cairns, to the Pacific, Asia, and the UK), but undoubtedly some of them, maybe even most of them, are complete nonsense, and of the ones that aren't I doubt that many, if any, will end up evolving into anything concrete.

 

[greenBV4]

theres not really any point speculating over what bids currently out there are serious or not until the NRL calls for formal bids to be submitted, if/when that happens theres a chance that bids we hadn't heard of before will come forth, and ones that aren't all that serious will not bother. Or the NRL might (probably will) pick the location/s first and then ask for bids only from those cities

but there's a question whether or not the Pirates (that are WARL owned) can actually bid at all because technically they are owned by the NRL through the WARL and that is a conflict of interest.

that's interesting, I hadn't heard this before, is it actually a road block for the pirates or is it a good thing to be backed by the governing state organisation?

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I see no evidence that suggests that any of that is true whatsoever, and it seems to me that you want it to be true more than it is actually true.

Until the NRL actually announces a bidding process and all the options make themselves known you can't lock anything in, because though the Dolphins may seem the best bid now for all you know there're two or three bids that shit all over the Dolphins bid that are quietly waiting in the wings.

I'm not a Dolphins member, fan or ex-player so there is no reason for me to want it to be true. We'll just leave it there and we'll chat when Redcliffe are admitted to the NRL.

 

[The Great Dane]

I'm not a Dolphins member, fan or ex-player so there is no reason for me to want it to be true. We'll just leave it there and we'll chat when Redcliffe are admitted to the NRL.

You don't need an emotional attachment to want something to be true, and the reason that I say that you want it to be true more so then it is actually true is because you seem to be wistfully asserting that it's the case without any real tangible reason to actually believe that any of it is actually the case.