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News Do you care if Israel Folau returns to the NRL?

Do you care if Israel Folau returns to the NRL?

  • I want him back in the NRL.

    Votes: 60 17.2%
  • I don't want him back in the NRL.

    Votes: 113 32.4%
  • I couldn't care less if he returns or not.

    Votes: 176 50.4%

  • Total voters
    349

typicalfan

Coach
Messages
15,430
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...settlement-on-folau-saga-20190627-p521yw.html

The original article was that the boss of NSW rugby, who are a respondent to this case, was urging the national body to settle saying "the game was paying too high a price". Not so absurd really. It was later consolidated into an article about Israel Folou's interview.

Code of conduct designed to protect the brand RA and it's stakeholders is breached. Subsequently Israel and RA have probably got irreversible brand damage. Who would have thought.
 

Pommy

Coach
Messages
14,657
Not even sure why its gone to court. surely if there really is a god he will provide divine intervention and pass down a judgement himself?

God isn’t giving him the potential to get $10m with no personal risk. Pretty clear why it’s going to court.
 

wibble

Bench
Messages
4,661
Since this thread has started I'm very surprised on how many people dislike Christian's on here.

I know right.

You'd think we'd be able to get over little things like Christians molesting children and covering for each other, neglecting children in their orphanages to death and abandoning their mothers, avoiding paying fair tax for profit making endeavours slapped with a Christian label, disproportionately being represented in parliament and therefore having the power to make us all vote on who can marry who when it is obvious only the Christians actually want to stop other people, forcing their views down our children's throats even at public schools, treating women like imbeciles who can't decide their own reproductive outcomes, and forcing ridiculous perversions of science on unsuspecting students in the name of equal consideration.

Of course, not all Christians are in to such things.

Some of them routinely burnt people at the stake for daring to try local medical rituals, or telling the truth about cosmology. Thankfully those Christians don't hold as much sway now, but we have to be wary of any world that moves us back towards those sort having control.

Obviously humans of all persuasions are capable of evil things. But from my perspective, Christians (big generalisation) seem to gloss over the evils that are done in the name of Christianity, and even champion how good and oppressed they are, like Folau is doing, as they are busy causing harm to others.

We don't need freedom of religion. Or religious expression. We need freedom from religion, which is easily the best thing that could happen for most religious people also, unless they are in the right sect at the right time. Otherwise they too, get burned at the stake/crucified/stoned etc with the rest of us.
 
Messages
11,362
I know right.

You'd think we'd be able to get over little things like Christians molesting children and covering for each other, neglecting children in their orphanages to death and abandoning their mothers, avoiding paying fair tax for profit making endeavours slapped with a Christian label, disproportionately being represented in parliament and therefore having the power to make us all vote on who can marry who when it is obvious only the Christians actually want to stop other people, forcing their views down our children's throats even at public schools, treating women like imbeciles who can't decide their own reproductive outcomes, and forcing ridiculous perversions of science on unsuspecting students in the name of equal consideration.

Of course, not all Christians are in to such things.

Some of them routinely burnt people at the stake for daring to try local medical rituals, or telling the truth about cosmology. Thankfully those Christians don't hold as much sway now, but we have to be wary of any world that moves us back towards those sort having control.

Obviously humans of all persuasions are capable of evil things. But from my perspective, Christians (big generalisation) seem to gloss over the evils that are done in the name of Christianity, and even champion how good and oppressed they are, like Folau is doing, as they are busy causing harm to others.

We don't need freedom of religion. Or religious expression. We need freedom from religion, which is easily the best thing that could happen for most religious people also, unless they are in the right sect at the right time. Otherwise they too, get burned at the stake/crucified/stoned etc with the rest of us.
Then move to North Korea
 

wibble

Bench
Messages
4,661
Then move to North Korea

Good to see you stepped up to the plate and recognised all the ills caused by Christianity, and as a good Christian, expressed your hope that these could be minimised by good Christians and non-Christians working together to give us freedom from religion.

Not sure what North Korea has to do with anything.
 

gerg

Juniors
Messages
2,241
And that interview Folau did. Second I saw it was with Alan Jones I stopped reading.

I'm totally confused by this. And let me just say I'm not confused about my own sexuality. Very happily married to a beautiful woman. I'm confused by Alan Jones' sexuality? I mean no disrespect and definitely don't want to invite any sort of trouble to myself or this website but isn't Jones gayer than Liberace? Why would he be supporting Folau?
 
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ULYSSES

Juniors
Messages
124
I'm totally confused by this. And let me just say I'm not confused about my own sexuality. Very happily married to a beautiful woman. I'm confused by Alan Jones' sexuality? I mean no disrespect and definitely don't want to invite any sort of trouble to myself or this website but isn't Jones gayer than Liberace? Why would he be supporting Folau?

Jones is supporting Folau because of the bigger picture. Everyone has their nickers in a knot over freedom of speech. breaking contracts, freedom of thought and freedom of religion. Certainly the right to practice ones religion will be central to the court case but for people like Jones it goes much further.
Freedom to practice your religion is protected by a statute but freedom of speech isn't. If a code of conduct can override a statute then what is next?. It could be a stipulation that an employee cannot marry a competitors employee or it maybe a midwife telling a mum that she has a boy when the mum wants the child to decide. Pick something close to yourself, it could be that. This is the line in the sand.
I have worked for myself and employed many people but I tell anyone that is an employee to watch this case with great interest. It could be pivotal to our freedom.
 
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Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,426
Jones is supporting Folau because of the bigger picture. Everyone has their nickers in a knot over freedom of speech. breaking contracts, freedom of thought and freedom of religion. Certainly the right to practice ones religion will be central to the court case but for people like Jones it goes much further.
Freedom to practice your religion is protected by a statute but freedom of speech isn't. If a code of conduct can override a statute then what is next?. It could be a stipulation that an employee cannot marry a competitors employee or it maybe a midwife telling a mum that she has a boy when the mum wants the child to decide. Pick something close to yourself, it could be that. This is the line in the sand.
I have worked for myself and employed many people but I tell anyone that is an employee to watch this case with great interest. It could be pivotal to our freedom.

Cracking strawman arguments, well done. Totally nonsense but well done anyways.

There has never been freedom of consequence from speech, we have had slander laws forever.
 

wibble

Bench
Messages
4,661
The very notion of freedom of speech is a bit bizarre, as is freedom of religion. Sure, those things, like all other actions, should be mostly free. But why should speech (or religion) be so free that you can do whatever you want with no regard to consequences? We don't treat any other actions in that way, and yet we still generally want people to have a wide choice of actions they can freely pursue.

Some examples of "free" speech that most people might find objectional and that should probably be illegal to say:

The location and identity of people in witness protection schemes
The recipes for easy to make chemical and explosive weapons, and where to deploy them in, say, Sydney, to cause the most destruction
The location and identity and exact operations of undercover military or police operatives
Passing off the work of others as your own (plagiarism, intellectual property theft)
The private details one discovers about clients/patients that they don't want shared

Clearly no one should want people to be able to say whatever they want at any time with no consequences. Slapping "religion" as the cause of your actions should be totally irrelevant to how they are judged (not that it is unusual for the religious to use special pleading to excuse their own harmful behaviour).

If a surgeon described in detail on twitter, let alone took and published photos, the anatomy of a patient they had unconscious in their care, that would be both professional neglect and criminal neglect so severe you would expect professional and criminal sanctions. No one would be arguing for their freedom of speech (except maybe them and their lawyer). If the person defended themselves by saying they were just being truthful, as their God commands, no one would think that adds in any way to their defense, and clearly neither "free speech" or "religious freedom" are under threat from sanctioning this surgeon. If GoFundMe refused to let that person raise funds for a legal defense, no one would batt an eyelid.

The Folou case is much more nuanced than this, but the principles of "free speech" and "free religious expression" do not grant him automatic immunity. The harm of what he says has to be balanced against people's general rights to act freely provided they don't harm others, and clearly Rugby Australia felt the harm to them was higher than the consequences of not letting an employee have general freedom to do as they wish. And now it seems a court will decide if that was reasonable. But we are talking about relative goods weighed against each other, not absolute rights that trump all other concerns.
 

gerg

Juniors
Messages
2,241
Jones is supporting Folau because of the bigger picture. Everyone has their nickers in a knot over freedom of speech. breaking contracts, freedom of thought and freedom of religion. Certainly the right to practice ones religion will be central to the court case but for people like Jones it goes much further.
Freedom to practice your religion is protected by a statute but freedom of speech isn't. If a code of conduct can override a statute then what is next?. It could be a stipulation that an employee cannot marry a competitors employee or it maybe a midwife telling a mum that she has a boy when the mum wants the child to decide. Pick something close to yourself, it could be that. This is the line in the sand.
I have worked for myself and employed many people but I tell anyone that is an employee to watch this case with great interest. It could be pivotal to our freedom.

I wouldn't say "everyone" has their knickers in a knot over freedom of speech. Just the people who don't realise that Australia has no official rules or laws which actually allow freedom of speech. We are not America and so many people clearly think we are. I challenge anybody who firmly believes we have freedom of speech to express or test that verbal freedom directly to a police officer or politician. See how far you can go before getting locked up.
 

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