Rumours and Stuff

[I'm a loser baby...]

At 3:35 of this video Arthur implies Moses isn't the only one 'calling the shots'. It's a team game, and it's blinkered to think the 7 should be the only one making decisions. There's a game plan, and they should all know it. They're full time professionals ffs. There's no reason they should have to rely on one bloke to tell them what to do on the field.

I reckon that's wishful thinking on BA's part. He's the senior half in a team with no real established leaders, and probably our highest paid player. If he's not the main guy calling the shots then who is?

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

Nathan Brown said "two five-eighths can work together if that's the style you want": https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/06/07/brown-let-pearce-dominate-nsw-or-leave-him-in-the-lounge-room/

This is referred to as 'split halves'. It's been happening for years.

Yes, a ringing endorsement...

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I reckon that's wishful thinking on BA's part. He's the senior half in a team with no real established leaders, and probably our highest paid player. If he's not the main guy calling the shots then who is?

The whole idea of one guy 'calling the shots' is out of date. Gameplans are very simple. If there's a quick play-the-ball or an effective offload then certain players have the authority to call the ball or otherwise decide where it goes (often based on identified opposition weaknesses) - you might've noticed when Gutherson gets the ball on such a play he will usually run it.

If there's no quick play-the-ball then teams will 'trust the process' - they will go through the shapes they rehearsed at training that week, and again, they are often targeting identified opposition weaknesses. There's not really a lot of shots to be called, but certainly nothing that requires a certain jersey number to do all the thinking.

 

[Bazal]

The idea of the traditional halfback running a side is fast becoming extinct tbh

 

[Kornstar]

The idea of the traditional halfback running a side is fast becoming extinct tbh

The game is so fast, you really need 2 to assist each other, with the fullback and hooker chiming in too.

 

[Bazal]

The game is so fast, you really need 2 to assist each other, with the fullback and hooker chiming in too.

Plus the evolution of edge players and edge play means that you really need someone on either side working with each edge. And a heap of other shit too, the fullback role has changed unbelievably for eg.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

The whole idea of one guy 'calling the shots' is out of date. Gameplans are very simple. If there's a quick play-the-ball or an effective offload then certain players have the authority to call the ball or otherwise decide where it goes (often based on identified opposition weaknesses) - you might've noticed when Gutherson gets the ball on such a play he will usually run it.

If there's no quick play-the-ball then teams will 'trust the process' - they will go through the shapes they rehearsed at training that week, and again, they are often targeting identified opposition weaknesses. There's not really a lot of shots to be called, but certainly nothing that requires a certain jersey number to do all the thinking.

Nobody is saying that one guy makes 100% of the decisions. And to suggest that players have very few decisions to make and therefore those decisions are unimportant is wrong imo.

 

[Joshuatheeel]

the fullback role has changed unbelievably for eg.

Yep, not just the general stuff either, they are extremely important in counting numbers on both sides and directly halves which side to attack if an overlap is identified.

 

[hindy111]

Sometimes Himdy you need to take the Riff mask,off, Cleary is almost the most one dimensional half there is. Passes a lot, tackles and kicks on the last.

He has no try assists or line break assists in all his Origin appearances, and virtually none in the club games. He is a young and slightly worse Blake Green, handy and that is it.

He will win a grand final. I am convinced by that. You do not need razzle dazzle. You want to choke a team.
Moses and Cleary would be a great combo for NSW. Brown looks like he could be better then both.
Moses imo is brilliant when forwards are rolling. When its tight he is erratic.

 

[Delboy]

He will win a grand final. I am convinced by that. You do not need razzle dazzle. You want to choke a team.
Moses and Cleary would be a great combo for NSW. Brown looks like he could be better then both.
Moses imo is brilliant when forwards are rolling. When its tight he is erratic.

Just tell me when Cleary will be brilliant, haven't seen it yet and he is not the sort of player that will do much more than what we have seen. In a sense, not sure he would be worth any more than say Brooks as he doesn't have a running game of much sort.

Each to our own opinion, you think Moses is erratic and I think Cleary is over rated.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Nobody is saying that one guy makes 100% of the decisions. And to suggest that players have very few decisions to make and therefore those decisions are unimportant is wrong imo.

The decision of what to do with the ball against a retreating defence is a decision that needs to be made by whoever has the ball. There might be a dude standing nearby calling out what to do with it but that doesn't need to be Mitchell Moses or whoever is wearing 6 that week.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

The decision of what to do with the ball against a retreating defence is a decision that needs to be made by whoever has the ball. There might be a dude standing nearby calling out what to do with it but that doesn't need to be Mitchell Moses or whoever is wearing 6 that week.

So they all get an equal amount of ball and they're all free to choose what to do with it. What a wonderful world.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

That might have been overly sarcastic.

 

[Happy MEel]

Doesn't that just mean he gets the ball more? So he should be right up there in the stats in a half decent team. And people expect an 18-year old to be the calm controller of our team? Seems like asking a bit much. Besides, isn't Junior Brown's main asset also his running? I reckon we've got two sixes.

It does, but it also means defences can defend him easier. He’s our focal point in attack and oppositions know this, yet he is still coming up with points.

To be fair to Drown, he has shown a maturity and calmness far beyond his years thus far and I think it’s a much easier job to give an up and comer a structured game plan to follow, rather than be responsible for creating points. Look at Cleary for example.

As for the running half comment, that’s awesome. I want both of my halves keen to run the ball.

 

[Happy MEel]

Just tell me when Cleary will be brilliant, haven't seen it yet and he is not the sort of player that will do much more than what we have seen. In a sense, not sure he would be worth any more than say Brooks as he doesn't have a running game of much sort.

Each to our own opinion, you think Moses is erratic and I think Cleary is over rated.

The point is he doesn’t have to be brilliant. As long as he has a creative half along side him, it’s actually Preferable to have someone like Cleary getting a team through their sets, kicking well and making good decisions.

I actually think we potentially have a superior Maloney and Cleary combination in Moses and Drown.

Drown is our Cleary
Moses is our Maloney

...but better

 

[hindy111]

Just tell me when Cleary will be brilliant, haven't seen it yet and he is not the sort of player that will do much more than what we have seen. In a sense, not sure he would be worth any more than say Brooks as he doesn't have a running game of much sort.

Each to our own opinion, you think Moses is erratic and I think Cleary is over rated.

As mentioned
Cleary has a calm head. He will win a title. I am convinced. Just as he won an origin series. He is far from brilliant.
Moses CAN be brilliant. Elite and special.
But at same time his weaknesses are huge and that is why he did not get a look in for origin. When heats on Cleary is like Ice. He nails them from sideline and he will snap a field goal. Moses will piss himself. That may change.

Brown looks like he is ice cool as well. I like that.

Moses has more talent then both. Just erratic.

 

[Bandwagon]

The difference between "solid" and "erratic" in a half at NRL level is really only down to how much risk they are prepared to deal with. Obviously skill comes into it more as more risk is taken on.

Cleary and Moses provide a classic example of that, Cleary is "solid" because his game is risk averse. Moses is "erratic" because he is a risk taker.

Moses will only become an elite half if and when he finds the balance between his level of skill, and the level of risk he takes. So he either hones his skills, or takes less risk. Or perhaps a combination of both.

Of the two though I know which one I'd prefer to watch, and it aint Cleary.

 

[hineyrulz]

Cleary is the Chris Tavare of halfbacks.

 

[Gary Gutful]

You want to choke a team.

*Chicken

 

[Gary Gutful]

Of the two though I know which one I'd prefer to watch, and it aint Cleary.

Is it Moses?