Should St George Illawarra end their joint venture?

[Willow]

There was a good post, about how to make a difference to the club, doing the rounds a while back. From memory, one way to change the club would be to become a member of the St George leagues club. After 5-10 years you would attain voting rights, at which point you can nominate and vote for the St George board members.

Here, from 2014...
https://forums.leagueunlimited.com/threads/heres-how-you-can-help-the-club.436992/

Full membership entitles you voting rights in 3 years. So a little sooner than you think.

Membership also gives you other benefits (eg parking), but the purpose of the thread was to build up as many Leagues Club members on the forum as possible.

 

[j0nesy]

As said, the 2010 premiership belongs as much to St George as it does to Illawarra. You can't just erase the heritage.

Unfortunately It seems NRL has done exactly that https://www.nrl.com/clubs/st-george-illawarra-dragons/

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

I'm a St George fan from way back but the only way the Dragons survive into the future is being seen as an "out of Sydney club". If they were to go back to being the St George Dragons, based out of Kogarah, then they are in direct competition with all the other Sydney clubs when the NRL eventually gets around to expansion. They would either get moved to another location or fold completely. The connection with Illawarra and being the NRL teams southern NSW team is what will keep the Dragons alive. Reality sucks but that's the way it is.

There is a lot of subjectivity in this debate including where would St. George be without Illawarra.
Everything that Illawarra offers in the JV could have been provided without the name change and with a strong St. George administration leading the way.
Why can Easts and Souths survive and prosper in Sydney and we are worried about competing against other Sydney clubs?
They are both very successful, well run and are both recent premiership winners.
St. George was not some penny ante club that was making up the numbers in the Sydney comp.
It was a powerful and well run club that had no peer administratively.
Us old guys that get criticized for living in the past, cannot reconcile what we were as St. George to what we are now as STG Illawarra.
So could we have survived and prospered as a stand alone St. George?
I say quite simply, if Easts and Souths could then so could we.
Would we have been more successful than the JV?
Well one title in 20 years is nothing to write home about and the years after Bennett have been a total abomination.
I say we could not have done worse.
The key to a stand alone St. George would have been private ownership.
The circumstances and the point in time where the then administration of St. George sold out to the idea of a JV is the point in time where this club lost it's soul.
As for forgetting about the glory days, that's easy for the Illawarra faction to tout because they have no history to speak of.
As a fan, we were promised a super club that would consistently challenge for the Premiership.
Instead we have become a halfway house for past players backed by owners who were gifted the equity by the NRL without considering any outside private ownership.
Our longest serving coach was hired and extended twice with zero credentials to coach FG let alone a club like St. George.
2 years as an unsuccessful coach of the Cutters.
That's the pinnacle of McGregor's coaching career before he was appointed as coach of the JV.
No apprenticeship with a FG coach whatsoever yet this man is the Head Coach of our "Super Club".
Sorry all you supporters of the JV, I don't see any benefits or upside whatsoever.
All I see is a massive compromise.

 

[Walpole]

There is a lot of subjectivity in this debate including where would St. George be without Illawarra.
Everything that Illawarra offers in the JV could have been provided without the name change and with a strong St. George administration leading the way.
Why can Easts and Souths survive and prosper in Sydney and we are worried about competing against other Sydney clubs?
They are both very successful, well run and are both recent premiership winners.
St. George was not some penny ante club that was making up the numbers in the Sydney comp.
It was a powerful and well run club that had no peer administratively.
Us old guys that get criticized for living in the past, cannot reconcile what we were as St. George to what we are now as STG Illawarra.
So could we have survived and prospered as a stand alone St. George?
I say quite simply, if Easts and Souths could then so could we.
Would we have been more successful than the JV?
Well one title in 20 years is nothing to write home about and the years after Bennett have been a total abomination.
I say we could not have done worse.
The key to a stand alone St. George would have been private ownership.
The circumstances and the point in time where the then administration of St. George sold out to the idea of a JV is the point in time where this club lost it's soul.
As for forgetting about the glory days, that's easy for the Illawarra faction to tout because they have no history to speak of.
As a fan, we were promised a super club that would consistently challenge for the Premiership.
Instead we have become a halfway house for past players backed by owners who were gifted the equity by the NRL without considering any outside private ownership.
Our longest serving coach was hired and extended twice with zero credentials to coach FG let alone a club like St. George.
2 years as an unsuccessful coach of the Cutters.
That's the pinnacle of McGregor's coaching career before he was appointed as coach of the JV.
No apprenticeship with a FG coach whatsoever yet this man is the Head Coach of our "Super Club".
Sorry all you supporters of the JV, I don't see any benefits or upside whatsoever.
All I see is a massive compromise.

First, "Easts" are not called that any more. They're the Sydney Roosters, they have a millionaire behind them who only wants success and they will be playing out of a modern new stadium. If you think St George, playing out of a suburban ground they have no control over with an aging group of fans in Sydney can match that, then fair enough. Souths just need a few lean years and Russell to lose interest and they'll have some issues too.

Don't get me wrong, I'd have preferred them to stay the St George Dragons and still be playing Newtown and Norths on a Saturday afternoon too, but time marches on. All this talk of private ownership, we should have done this, we should have done that etc. just hasn't eventuated. If anyone can genuinely see an NRL competition in 20 years time that has 9 teams based in Sydney then good luck to them. The NRL wants teams out of Sydney, they've made it abundantly clear. The thing that Illawarra gives the Dragons is location.

Anyway, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I'll still be at Kogarah next time they play there, in the same seat I've been in for the best part of 20 years.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

First, "Easts" are not called that any more. They're the Sydney Roosters, they have a millionaire behind them who only wants success and they will be playing out of a modern new stadium. If you think St George, playing out of a suburban ground they have no control over with an aging group of fans in Sydney can match that, then fair enough. Souths just need a few lean years and Russell to lose interest and they'll have some issues too.

Don't get me wrong, I'd have preferred them to stay the St George Dragons and still be playing Newtown and Norths on a Saturday afternoon too, but time marches on. All this talk of private ownership, we should have done this, we should have done that etc. just hasn't eventuated. If anyone can genuinely see an NRL competition in 20 years time that has 9 teams based in Sydney then good luck to them. The NRL wants teams out of Sydney, they've made it abundantly clear. The thing that Illawarra gives the Dragons is location.

Anyway, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I'll still be at Kogarah next time they play there, in the same seat I've been in for the best part of 20 years.

I can be persuaded to embrace the JV if it was fair dinkum.
The fans are being played for fools.
That's what annoys me more than anything.

 

[getsmarty]

I think the issue is the Board....St George have always relied on the Illawarra region for Juniors.

To quote a former coach, the Club currently has a stench of death about it ( or words to that affect ) ....Same people making the same mistakes and expecting different results. In terms of players, we are ripe for the picking...the eagles are circling the carcass.

 

[Willow]

Unfortunately It seems NRL has done exactly that https://www.nrl.com/clubs/st-george-illawarra-dragons/

And yet, the St George Leagues Club holds a different view,

From the St George Leagues Club Journal, 2010.
Written by Michael Carayannis
Link: http://www.jubileeavenue.com.au/history/images/STG-Leagues-Journal-2010/STG-LC-Journal-2010_02.jpg

And then there's this from NRL CEO in 2010:
"They are pretty unique in terms of their history - 11 straight premierships, their present state - they hold all the silverware in the game at the moment and their future looks bright with new stadium improvements at Kogarah and Wollongong." David Gallop, NRL CEO
Link: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/lo...-of-broncos-20110903-1jrc4.html#ixzz1WwQ3wlpc

Add to that the NRL's ground announcer repeating over and over how it is was our first premiership since 1979.

Plus the NRL's habit of profiting from our history by having heritage rounds and promotions featuring St George alongside other clubs with proud histories.

And oh, the NRL only started in 1998, but for some reason they can claim all the NSWRL / ARL premiership records since 1908 and use it as a continuation of their history.

The NRL can be quite hypocritical when it comes to acknowledging history. IMO, the main problem on their website is that they are taking their cues from statisticians, not historians.

They do things quite differently in England. For example, if you look at Hull FC, they have "Established 1865" on their logo and badge. So how can that be when the Northern Union was formed in 1895? Well Hull FC were a football club prior to the schism. Their history didn't disappear just because they went from amateur Rugby Union to professional Rugby League (an entirely different competition). They see it as a continuation of their history. They love their history and don't let it go cheaply, unlike some folks do here in Australia.

 

[hazzbeen]

I look at it this way , if nothing changes over the next 5 years and I mean a complete sweep out , new blood in the coaching staff ( not within ) doesn't matter whether its St George Illawarra , Illawarra Steelers , or just St George , we are f**ked ....... It can't keep going the way it is ...... Yea the coach is average and has had plenty of time , but this is not the biggest problem going forward ..... Outside influence is needed or the Club is doomed .....

 

[getsmarty]

I look at it this way , if nothing changes over the next 5 years and I mean a complete sweep out , new blood in the coaching staff ( not within ) doesn't matter whether its St George Illawarra , Illawarra Steelers , or just St George , we are f**ked ....... It can't keep going the way it is ...... Yea the coach is average and has had plenty of time , but this is not the biggest problem going forward ..... Outside influence is needed or the Club is doomed .....

100% agree Hazz.... We continue on the current path and we are just making up the numbers.

Board lacks Vision/Fresh Ideas/ Passion to succeed.

They had the opportunity to choose between Gordon and the other party ( surname escapes me )...who allegedly offered 5 million more than the Gordon's and had extensive contacts in EPL/NFL if I remember correctly and they knocked him back. That for mine, shows you exactly what is going on without stating it here in Black and White....Illuminating ......

 

[hazzbeen]

100% agree Hazz.... We continue on the current path and we are just making up the numbers.

Board lacks Vision/Fresh Ideas/ Passion to succeed.

They had the opportunity to choose between Gordon and the other party ( surname escapes me )...who allegedly offered 5 million more than the Gordon's and had extensive contacts in EPL/NFL if I remember correctly and they knocked him back. That for mine, shows you exactly what is going on without stating it here in Black and White....Illuminating ......

Yep looking after the Boys Club .... No vision as you say ....

 

[Saints Forever]

That’s some McGregor level finger pointing there..

It’s everyone else’s fault but not St George’s?

This mess stems from Kogarah.. Time for the once proud club to step up and start contributing if they want to stay in 1st grade..

Unsure what part of “each party has failed to deliver” you are unable to comprehend Muz.

I made no comment regarding coaching. My views regarding McGregor are well known.

The “mess” stems from the JV board, not Kogarah.

Last time I looked the Gordon family are an integral part of the JV. Perhaps the Chairman might consider it time to step down from the position. Lord knows that to date, Gordon junior is a Chairman in name only.

Suggest all members who are not St George Leagues Club members join immediately.

The only positive thing we can do is vote out the current St George Leagues Club board.

Question is, will the JV still exist by then.

 

[Old Timer]

The solution should have been
Illawarra your are gone.
St George, this is your catchment including the Illawarra make a go of it or you are gone in 5 years.
Illawarra was always a feeder to St George as well as other Sydney clubs and should have been left that way.
The notion of a stand alone Illawarra was always doomed to failure and its reward for its inevitable failure is that the tail is now wagging the dog.
For all of its rich history of providing players to the NRL, the Illawarra had done nothing more than that and if it had true professionalism and history of achieving on its own merit it would have survived and displaced St George or some other Sydney club at the NRL table.
There is no historical reason why the name Illawarra should have survived in NRL terms.
Manly were forced into a situation to appease the NRL and then unwound it and have prospered as a result.
f**k the JV and all associated with it and TBH I would rather that St George had perished than see how we are now little more than a decaying corpse with maggots all over it.

 

[Saints Forever]

Thought I should clarify my position.

1. If the JV is unable to function as a true title contender in the NRL by maintaining high standards on and off the field, it should be disbanded.

2. Neither geographical area will succeed on their own.

3. Sack McGregor

4. Fire up you Dragons we have a game to WIN today!!!!!

 

[getsmarty]

Unsure what part of “each party has failed to deliver” you are unable to comprehend Muz.

I made no comment regarding coaching. My views regarding McGregor are well known.

The “mess” stems from the JV board, not Kogarah.

Last time I looked the Gordon family are an integral part of the JV. Perhaps the Chairman might consider it time to step down from the position. Lord knows that to date, Gordon junior is a Chairman in name only.

Suggest all members who are not St George Leagues Club members join immediately.

The only positive thing we can do is vote out the current St George Leagues Club board.

Question is, will the JV still exist by then.

When did they give members the voting rights in terms of changing the Board. My understanding is we have no say ?

Regardless, I will vote with my feet and wallet...when they eventually see crowd/membership numbers drop , sponsors will evaluate whether they should continue to sponsor our club when other options look far more attractive.

 

[muzby]

The solution should have been
Illawarra your are gone.

They said that..

But no one understood what it actually meant, so they just carried on..

 

[muzby]

Unsure what part of “each party has failed to deliver” you are unable to comprehend Muz.

I made no comment regarding coaching. My views regarding McGregor are well known.

The “mess” stems from the JV board, not Kogarah.

Last time I looked the Gordon family are an integral part of the JV. Perhaps the Chairman might consider it time to step down from the position. Lord knows that to date, Gordon junior is a Chairman in name only.

Suggest all members who are not St George Leagues Club members join immediately.

The only positive thing we can do is vote out the current St George Leagues Club board.

Question is, will the JV still exist by then.

No, the coaching remark is that you are pointing the finger of blame at everyone but St George...

Same as how our esteemed coach points the finger of blame in every direction except his own..

 

[muzby]

This is like one of those anti-republic arguments where monarchists were in a mad panic spreading around all sorts of scenarios if Australia were to become a republic. The classic was being kicked out of the Commonwealth and no longer being allowed to compete in the C-Games. Something they forgot to tell the Republic of India when they hosted the C-Games in 2010.

If the Britain and India can work this out as part of Indian independence in 1948, then surely the districts of St George and Illawarra can continue with old partnerships and look forward to a prosperous future.

In this analogy are Illawarra India and St George the British Empire?

I’m liking that story..

 

[ALSGI]

I’ve always liked the JV.

As a kid in the Carlton/Kogarah area from the 60’s I even liked Illawarra when they kicked off in the 80’s (except when they beat us).

I lived in the Gong and South Coast more recently and have far more affinity with the area (and JV) than what the St George/Sutherland/Eastern Suburbs/Canterbury Bankstown districts have become.

There’s nothing wrong with the JV imo, proud to be a St George Illawarra tragic. Lots of administrative/business/performance issues but the JV footy team I’m happy to be a proud supporter of.

Always bought a Holden or Ford until recently, great cars, great history and great memories. My new BMW is heaps (shitloads) better than any of the new Holden/Ford models and so is my wife’s Hyundai for that matter. My point here is a long bow I know, but if we got rid of the Holdens and Fords from our old boys club we could become a prestigious and good reliable footy club again.

Go the Mighty St George Illawarra Dragons - onwards and upwards !

 

[Willow]

In this analogy are Illawarra India and St George the British Empire?

I’m liking that story..

The choice is yours to make.

I am Ghandi.

 

[HowHigh]

It would be a shame to see the Dragons out of the NRL but at least we'd have the Steelers back and more home games down here.