Should St George Illawarra end their joint venture?

[j0nesy]

Obviously on tenterhooks playing up to the Illawarra faction otherwise you would piss them all off freakin deadwoods

Mate they’re looking after each other’s backs. It’s not confined to one faction of the JV.

 

[Saints Forever]

Well said and good on you.

I was a St George supporter who grew up in Wollongong. My Dad and Grandad grew up in Hurstville and always supported the Saints, so I followed them.

My younger brother chose the Steelers path, as teenagers it was a lot easier for us to get to WIN than it was to Kogarah. So The Steelers became my 2nd team.

Neither St George nor the Steelers as standalone entities won a premiership in my lifetime. However the JV has managed to win one. The Saints, as a standalone entity, had not been a super club since the 1960’s.

Many finals appearances in the 1970’s including two premierships.

A couple of close calls in 1984 and 1985.

4 grand finals appearances in the 1990’s isn’t too shabby.

This may explain the holier than thou attitude, because as supporters we were used to high standards being applied ruthlessly.

So I don’t understand this holier than thou attitude that some ex-St George fans espouse.

Here’s some additional alternative views:
* Kogarah oval is a dilapidated ground and terrible to watch footy from.

Have to disagree. Supporters are very close to the action and create an awesome atmosphere.

Yes facilities need up grading.

All games should be played out of WIN stadium as it can seat more people, has better facilities and more cover.

This may yet occur.

* WIN corporation has its roots in Wollongong as do a vast number of the JV sponsors.

Apart from buying out Illawarra, WIN has offered nothing to the JV.

No business plan.

No business acumen.

No corporate professionalism.

Financial support is provided from both regions of the JV. However, the name and strip are famous and must remain. The more sponsors the better.

* Most junior players come from the Illawarra / south coast as do most of the younger supporters. The Kogarah region does not contribute enough, nor do the St George juniors.

Don’t believe Melbourne or the Roosters have great “junior nurseries” but they sure know how to collect the best juniors.

* The CEO of the JV is and always has been a St George old boy. The success of the club is primarily CEO’s responsibility.

It’s the Boards responsibility and the CEO takes his instructions from the Board.

We need a CEO that does not have have an affiliation with either rugby league faction and is more business focus and less football focussed.

We agree on this point.

* St George leagues reduced its funding to the JV some years back. St George leagues club gets far too much of a say in the running of the club for the little it contributes.

It contributes no less than WIN or Illawarra prior to WIN’s acquisition.

St George leagues club and WIN corporation funding should increase each year relative to the cost of running a rugby league club and inflation in order to maintain their shares.

Am sure this is in the JV agreement as it is a standard point in all generic JV agreements.

If St George leagues club cannot keep up with its financial obligations to the JV then it’s shares should be sold off and offered to Red V members in the first instance and private owners in the 2nd instance. A 50/50 members owned / privately owned club is much better operating model in my opinion.

A recent article suggested St George Leagues Club has $12M in the bank and owns its premises. I would conservatively value the Leagues Club site at a minimum of $100M.

WIN paid out the Illawarra JV debt to help the Illawarra maintain an interest in the JV. Since then the Gordon family have done nothing obvious to improve the JV.

I hope they show greater resolve and commitment going forward than they have shown to date.

 

[muzby]

It”s bullshit the ST GEORGE DRAGONS HAVE THE PREMIERSHIPS not Illawarra . It’s about time they are reminded of that. We have had Mcfu##nukle & Farrar & most of their incompetent board !!! Piss off the lot of you d**kheads

You can have your 15 premierships.. It’s not about the distant past, it’s about the future..

Given that anyone younger than 40 has never even seen a St George premiership, in no particular order here are a list of things that have occurred since they lifted the shield..

• Australia has seen 9 different prime ministers
• America has seen 7 different Presidents
• The Berlin Wall fell
• 10 Olympic Games have been held
• We got a new national anthem
• We replaced $1 & $2 notes with coin
• 9/11
• 2 gulf wars
• Princess Di’s passing
• Every other Sydney club has won the comp

But the whole jumping up and down from St George fans is funny.. Perhaps the below rules apply to a few folk in here..

 

[possm]

If we move away from Illawarra it will give the NRL a excuse to move us interstate.

St George are financially stable, it is Board members and management staff that are on the nose with members and fans.

St George has good assets but the way forward is not to sell those assets it is to develop them to again become profitable income producing assets. If the talent is not there at the club to do this, then the two options available are;

• To replace people with the talent.
• To bring on an investor with the talent and resources to manage the project.

If ever WIN wanted out of the deal, their shares would have to be bought either by St George or by an entity approved by St George and the NRL. Those share should provide a good return given the entry price WIN paid was below market price. WIN paid out about 10m and the highest offer was over 12m.

So the state of our financial situation is strong and so should not be in question. Property alone is valued at over 100m and if developed could be worth much more.

I can see a day when WIN exits there ownership in SGI and so, I think this time St George will buy those shares directly from WIN. Given the current St George bank balance and the value of their assets, St George could in fact initially go it alone and then choose an investor who is interested in developing their Club and the surrounding land as a partner.

Finally we have seen what it means to have a relationship with the Illawarra Club and their juniors clubs. Often it provides valuable opportunity for recruitment but more often many players do not rise to play first grade for the Red V instead, as we have seen recently, there is nothing to stop other clubs from signing the best of the crop without any compensaton for their development costs. So the question needs to be asked, if SGI was not owned by WIN and had not formal ties to the Illawarra, what would stop them from doing exactly what the Roosters, Manly and other clubs have done over the years; sign only top juniors as needed without any contribution to development costs and without having to operate with another entity owning half the Club.

I say the NRL should arrange that clubs pay a fee to development clubs when signing juniors and if this is not arranged, St George concentrate and develop their local juniors who might show a bit more loyalty and pride in the big red V.

 

[J.moz]

Bring Back St.george and all premierships roosters or souths would no way merge to lose all history .Stand alone bring in a buyer of 50% we dont need wincorp they are only in it for saving Illawarra.

 

[Knuckle-dragger]

60-40 after about 100 votes.

 

[Willow]

you don’t hear most of the legacy steel crew carrying on the same way as the legacy saints crew..

There's a good reason for that.

 

[muzby]

There's a good reason for that.

Because we’re younger?

 

[muzby]

60-40 after about 100 votes.

So only 11 more St George folk to convince and we’re there..

 

[St Georgio]

100% I rather fold forever than being a JV, I can't bear the noisy rhetoric of others reminding me, we have 1 premiership not 16.
I Started following the Dragons in 1977 with people bowing to success of the Famous Red V, these days saints don't even register anything than but a team that just makes up the numbers of the NRL.
This team is not for Me any longer, the turning point for St George was staying loyal to the ARL, if you look at every SL team they've survived in there own terms like Scummullah.

 

[muzby]

100% I rather fold forever than being a JV, I can bear the noisy rhetoric of others reminding me, we have 1 premiership not 16.
I Started following the Dragons in 1977 with people bowing to success of the Famous Red V, these days saints don't even register anything than but a team that just makes up the numbers of the NRL.
This team is not for Me any longer, the turning point for St George was staying loyal to the ARL, if you look at every SL team they've survived in there own terms like Scummullah.

By the end of next season you’ll have been following the JV for just as long as you followed the singular entity..

And you have 1 premiership to show from each stint..

Stick with it, the future will be bright..

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

You can have your 15 premierships.. It’s not about the distant past, it’s about the future..

Given that anyone younger than 40 has never even seen a St George premiership, in no particular order here are a list of things that have occurred since they lifted the shield..

• Australia has seen 9 different prime ministers
• America has seen 7 different Presidents
• The Berlin Wall fell
• 10 Olympic Games have been held
• We got a new national anthem
• We replaced $1 & $2 notes with coin
• 9/11
• 2 gulf wars
• Princess Di’s passing
• Every other Sydney club has won the comp

But the whole jumping up and down from St George fans is funny.. Perhaps the below rules apply to a few folk in here..

So what has all this nonsense got to do with Rugby League?
Meaningless jibber that doesn't address the real issues.
St. George history is not only the 15 premierships.
Since 1979 they also contested 4 Grand Finals before the inaugural year of the JV in 1999 and regularly played finals footy before the JV.
In other words, we have consistently done better as St. George than as STI - that is just an undeniable fact.
So you go ahead and continue to disrespect the history and tradition of St. George because it suits your agenda.
It makes you look foolish.
At the same time, you sweep the JV results under the carpet which, are unacceptable by any standard given the "Super Club" status that we were promised.
These more recent results are far more pertinent to the argument and have nothing to do with whether St. George had previously won 15 premierships or not.
So you sit their squawking like a parrot with skewed and bias arguments unable to provide an objective point of view.

 

[Datramp]

I agree. We should totally end the joint venture and just become Illawarra.

 

[St Georgio]

I agree. We should totally end the joint venture and just become Illawarra.

You can have it, let the NRL and Illawarra rot in the Abyss!

 

[muzby]

So what has all this nonsense got to do with Rugby League?
Meaningless jibber that doesn't address the real issues.

All of these events are things that occurred since St George last won a premiership..

The point of this is to highlight to you that the history which you claim to be a strong selling point is actually further in the past than you may think..

Another point which may help - Newtown we’re still playing 1st grade the last time St George won..

Since 1979 they also contested 4 Grand Finals before the inaugural year of the JV in 1999

Commiserations on your losses.

However, history celebrates the winners, not the losers.

In other words, we have consistently done better as St. George than as STI - that is just an undeniable fact.
So you go ahead and continue to disrespect the history and tradition of St. George because it suits your agenda.
It makes you look foolish.
At the same time, you sweep the JV results under the carpet which, are unacceptable by any standard given the "Super Club" status that we were promised.

Actually, it’s not an “undeniable fact”. It’s a complete and utter lie, which is highlighted by plain statistics.

In the 20 seasons berween the last premiership and the JV, you only made the finals 9 times, lost 4 grand finals and didn’t win a premiership.

In the first 20 seasons of the JV, we’ve made the finals 12 times, made 2 grand finals and won one.

So..

Finals strike rate: (number of seasons we’ve made the finals)
STG: 45%
STGI: 60%

Grand final success rate:
STG: 0%
STGI: 50%

Premierships:
STG: 0
STGI: 1

Are there any other metrics you’d prefer me to use to define “success”?

So you sit their squawking like a parrot with skewed and bias arguments unable to provide an objective point of view.

You do realise the African grey parrot you have put up there is considered one of the smartest animals in the world?

 

[St Georgio]

At the same time, you sweep the JV results under the carpet which, are unacceptable by any standard given the "Super Club" status that we were promised.

The NRL(Super league) we will promise you, the New STGI will become a "Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club""Super Club.
Dumb Fccuukkers the Storm will become the Super Club!

 

[Carlton]

All of these events are things that occurred since St George last won a premiership..

The point of this is to highlight to you that the history which you claim to be a strong selling point is actually further in the past than you may think..

Another point which may help - Newtown we’re still playing 1st grade the last time St George won..


Commiserations on your losses.

However, history celebrates the winners, not the losers.

Actually, it’s not an “undeniable fact”. It’s a complete and utter lie, which is highlighted by plain statistics.

In the 20 seasons berween the last premiership and the JV, you only made the finals 9 times, lost 4 grand finals and didn’t win a premiership.

In the first 20 seasons of the JV, we’ve made the finals 12 times, made 2 grand finals and won one.

So..

Finals strike rate: (number of seasons we’ve made the finals)
STG: 45%
STGI: 60%

Grand final success rate:
STG: 0%
STGI: 50%

Premierships:
STG: 0
STGI: 1

Are there any other metrics you’d prefer me to use to define “success”?



You do realise the African grey parrot you have put up there is considered one of the smartest animals in the world?

Why restrict the records you are comparing to the first twenty years of the JV. The JV has been around since 1998 so lets consider 21 years of JV because this year is a flop as well. To be consistent lets look at the 21 years of St George stand alone immediately prior to the JV. We won premierships in 1977 and 1979.

Looking at St George over the twenty years before the last premiership means we are only looking at about 11 years of stand alone history as the JV existed for 9 of those years.

 

[muzby]

Why restrict the records you are comparing to the first twenty years of the JV. The JV has been around since 1998 so lets consider 21 years of JV because this year is a flop as well. To be consistent lets look at the 21 years of St George stand alone immediately prior to the JV. We won premierships in 1977 and 1979.

Looking at St George over the twenty years before the last premiership means we are only looking at about 11 years of stand alone history as the JV existed for 9 of those years.

We are discussing the 20 seasons post the last St George premiership as our mate Dennis believes that we were more successful in that period. I have simply taken the same time period post JV starting.

And if you wanted 21 seasons pre the JV you’d need to stop at 1978, so you couldn’t include the 1977 premiership..

And St George missed the finals in 1978 too..

 

[TruSaint]

100% I rather fold forever than being a JV, I can't bear the noisy rhetoric of others reminding me, we have 1 premiership not 16.
I Started following the Dragons in 1977 with people bowing to success of the Famous Red V, these days saints don't even register anything than but a team that just makes up the numbers of the NRL.
This team is not for Me any longer, the turning point for St George was staying loyal to the ARL, if you look at every SL team they've survived in there own terms like Scummullah.

There were ten teams that competed in the Super League comp.
3 no longer exist mate.

 

[St Georgio]

There were ten teams that competed in the Super League comp.
3 no longer exist mate.

Trust Me St George would have survived if they has gone with Super league!