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Rationalisation of Sydney

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
5,322
Lol. Well that seals it then! An endorsement from you is clearly indicating he's on the wrong path!

Or simply, he has just pointed to the evidence that clubs can be a success in the second teir with good crowds and TV coverage as Newtown and some Shute Shield clubs have shown.
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
5,322
I played both codes at high school. In fact played soccer as well after my rugby league finished. Wonder if you geniuses ever played rugby league?

So it's a bit rich for you to be accusing every other poster here of being a Union stooge when you are the one that actually played the game.
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
5,322
Relegation to a lower tier is the way to go in my opinion.

Mergers are a shit show of infighting and instability, and relocations are expensive, risky, take decades to establish themselves in the new market, and don't work the way that people think they work, so unless people are okay with relocating clubs in the same style as the best relocations in America are achieved (which most wouldn't be), then really relocations are an expensive waste of time and money that'll probably create as many problems as they solve.

Relegation on the other hand has the least impact on fans and the club it's self, the club doesn't have to leave town and can still play out of their home ground and use their current facilities, their current fans are more of less unaffected by the change, the club doesn't need to engage a new market, and apart from big ticket sponsors and donors the clubs sponsors and corporates are more or less unaffected, etc, etc.
The only significant difference is that they'll be playing in a different competition against different clubs and their salary cap will be lower.

Now the problem with relegation in the NRL is that no suitable competition exists for them to be dropped down into, so if I was going to rationalise the competition what I would do is spend a decade or so before hand building a new national second tier competition, sell it as a product independant of the NRL, get all it's games broadcast somewhere, introduce some sort of duel registration system, etc. . . Then once being moved from one competition to the other is more or less a seamless transition where the clubs aren't going to have a major loss of exposure and the such, I'd start relegating the excess clubs from Sydney down into the second tier comp (and who knows, maybe one of the clubs in the second tier comp is going so well that we consider promoting it).

It's a win-win for everybody if we go down the relegation route: Taipan and the other fans that's clubs are effected can still support the Sharks or their respective clubs in the same manner as they always have, the NRL not only drops the burden that carrying the excess Sydney clubs was creating, but it gains another product to sell and a place for clubs that are struggling to go if things go south for them.
Not only is the Telstra premiership freed up to spread it's wings, but the we've created a second tier comp that has reasonable national exposure and is cheaper to operate in which creates better opportunities for expansion in smaller and emerging markets through the new second tier comp.
More opportunities are created for players to become professionals and their isn't a giant drop off in exposure for players that can't or aren't up to NRL standard.

Spot on!
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
5,322
The big difference is Newtown is now a new demographic of latte . sippers, trendsetters ,and many of the young families have moved out to the suburbs where NRL League teams are situated.That's why John Singleton wanted to move the Jets out to Campbelltown.

Newtown in terms of rl interest is confined to little publicity, and little care from the public.And it operates on an oval ground with SFA cover.

I'd love to see the Jets come back into the NRL.eg The Ipswich Jets.But that's just nostalgia ,and I guess it will never happen.

I see your point but they still are attracting people to their games. Each second teir suburban team could take a similar approach using whatever attracts their demographics to games. It offers a different RL experience to what the NRL can offer and also is an appropriate level and use for some suburban grounds.
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
Or simply, he has just pointed to the evidence that clubs can be a success in the second teir with good crowds and TV coverage as Newtown and some Shute Shield clubs have shown.

Lol. Think the NRL has a bit more legitimacy and widespread support along with significance then the lower tier competitions you have mentioned. Demoting popular existing clubs doesn't bode well for fan bases that exist all over Australia etc.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,289
It's a merge between St George and ILLAWARRA.

It was more of a take over by the Dragons.
They should gradually take more and more games to the gong and change the name to WStG Dragons with full traditional Dragons outfit. 1 or 2 games at Kogarah per year.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,407
I see your point but they still are attracting people to their games. Each second teir suburban team could take a similar approach using whatever attracts their demographics to games. It offers a different RL experience to what the NRL can offer and also is an appropriate level and use for some suburban grounds.

That they are, but it's not what you would call deep seated rl fans, more a picnic ,social outing situation.And the crowd reflects it.Newtown was in a completely different situation to any of the current Sydney clubs.The closest to it would be the Roosters .And who is going to relocate them?

Any current Sydney NRL club that went 2nd tier, would lose a hell of a lot of support.The crowds from memory that used to follow Qld cup in the past, pre Broncos were far far larger, than now.
Plus even now Queenslanders also give more support to lower tiers than Sydney does.

The biggest issue with crowds in Sydney are threefold, timeslots/stadiiums/transport to and from.

You could have 6 teams in Sydney now and the crowds at times would be rubbish, based on those factors.
Even Andrew Johns admitted whilst he supports rationalisation, he cannot fathom how it could be done.The NRL are aware of the angst that will follow, particularly in their major market.
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
So it's a bit rich for you to be accusing every other poster here of being a Union stooge when you are the one that actually played the game.

Lol. How dumb? It actually strengthens my pro rugby league comments! I've seen and witnessed the ugly game of union. Others have not. And the worse ones are the ones that haven't played rugby league! Most of them have no idea of how inclusive the code of rugby league is!
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
It was more of a take over by the Dragons.
They should gradually take more and more games to the gong and change the name to WStG Dragons with full traditional Dragons outfit. 1 or 2 games at Kogarah per year.

Nope. St George is synonymous with the Dragons!
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
5,322
Lol. How dumb? It actually strengthens my pro rugby league comments! I've seen and witnessed the ugly game of union. Others have not. And the worse ones are the ones that haven't played rugby league! Most of them have no idea of how inclusive the code of rugby league is!

You played the game mate - so don't go around accusing others' of being a union stooge. Grow up.
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
5,322
Lol. Think the NRL has a bit more legitimacy and widespread support along with significance then the lower tier competitions you have mentioned. Demoting popular existing clubs doesn't bode well for fan bases that exist all over Australia etc.

So why are you constantly pushing the agenda that the Shute Shield is a threat to RL?
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
IF (big IF) the NRL ever enforced a criteria to cut Sydney teams, the 2 losers are dead obvious and it isn't even a close call.

Elite:
Souths
Easts
Parramatta

Mostly Safe:
Penrith
Canterbury
Wests
St George-Illawarra

In danger:
Manly
Cronulla
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,803
Id have to question if regional cities like Wollongong and Gosford can generate enough corporate interest to fund a club in this day and age? Most clubs are generating around $6-10mill in corporate revenue. Even a regional club like Newcastle struggled without pokie den top ups.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,803
IF (big IF) the NRL ever enforced a criteria to cut Sydney teams, the 2 losers are dead obvious and it isn't even a close call.

Elite:
Souths
Easts
Parramatta

Mostly Safe:
Penrith
Canterbury
Wests
St George-Illawarra

In danger:
Manly
Cronulla

Hard to argue. If you dropped one of the mostly safe clubs (and that would be a hard choice) and the bottom two and created a new Northern Sydney club it would pretty much sort Sydney landscape out and create two new expansion spots.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
Id have to question if regional cities like Wollongong and Gosford can generate enough corporate interest to fund a club in this day and age? Most clubs are generating around $6-10mill in corporate revenue. Even a regional club like Newcastle struggle with pokie den top ups.

Do you think there's less value in a regional city than an outer suburb of Sydney?
Regional cities have their own cultural identity and pride, and a lot more room for growth over the next few decades than suburban Sydney.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,762
Everyone except for the rusted-on old-school suburban footy diehards.

They won't support their teams unless the conditions are absolutely perfect.
They need the team to be based in their suburb, the team needs to be playing out of a broken down shithole of a stadium, tickets need to be dirt cheap to the point that clubs struggles to make a profit on home games, they have to play in the premier competition even if they don't warrant it, etc, etc.

So what exactly is "rusted-on" about them when all it takes is one minor change and they are all jumping ship?
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
4,440
IF (big IF) the NRL ever enforced a criteria to cut Sydney teams, the 2 losers are dead obvious and it isn't even a close call.

Elite:
Souths
Easts
Parramatta

Mostly Safe:
Penrith
Canterbury
Wests
St George-Illawarra

In danger:
Manly
Cronulla


Although I think you're on the right track there, it's a little more nuanced than 3 categories.

For instance, Cronulla have complete control over upgrading their own ground, so it's just a matter of raising the funds & getting building consent. Manly would probably love to have that sort of control over their ground.

Then in the middle group, the Bulldogs & Panthers, enjoy the stability of having ONE Sydney home ground (the novelty of "back to Belmore" notwithstanding) - something that the Tigers and Dragons don't have, which is important in build a consistent home game fanbase.

Maybe what we need to do is look at each club in turn & detail
* Pros
* Cons
* Action that the club has taken to grow it's KPIs (juniors, membership, attendance, fan base, profit)
* Best strategy for the future (Merger? Relocation? Moving some/all home games in Sydney? Stadium redevelopment? Changing the junior catchment area? Stuff like that..)
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
4,440
They won't support their teams unless the conditions are absolutely perfect.
They need the team to be based in their suburb, the team needs to be playing out of a broken down shithole of a stadium, tickets need to be dirt cheap to the point that clubs struggles to make a profit on home games, they have to play in the premier competition even if they don't warrant it, etc, etc.

Yep, and that community of fans is somehow surprised when other NRL fans in Brisbane, Perth, Wellington or Adelaide express their frustration (bordering on resentment) at the competition having all these clubs in Sydney while they have a small fraction of the games just because "it's tradition, you can't change THAT!"
 

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