What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Rationalisation of Sydney

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
What fans? I started supporting Souths before I moved to Australia. I now live in in south west Sydney what affinity do I have with Redfern or its surrounding areas? I will tell you f**king zero I picked the team because there were 4 poms in the side. Had it been today I would probably have picked Canberra.
What maths? you have failed to provide any maths to support why the area can support 10 teams.

A few comments ago you were telling me noone supports Sydney clubs elsewhere around the world. At least if you are lying be consistent please! And people choose to follow clubs for all different types of reasons. So your point is not making sense again. Local relevance being an important part of a clubs history and credibility. To be not seen as a club "running away"/abandoning it's roots is important in the eyes of plenty of fans. There are plenty of other reasons why people support a club. There particular origins is one of those important reasons people shine to a club. You don't think so? Others do.
 
Last edited:

flippikat

Bench
Messages
4,442
What fans? I started supporting Souths before I moved to Australia. I now live in in south west Sydney what affinity do I have with Redfern or its surrounding areas? I will tell you f**king zero I picked the team because there were 4 poms in the side. Had it been today I would probably have picked Canberra.
.

Precisely. Many fans of a team that are from outside a team's city or suburb will be fans of the branding (colours, logos, jerseys), or links that their country have with the club, or just jump on the bandwagon of a successful team & then stick with them when the premiership window closes.

Some may delve deeper.. read-up about the club's past, the demographics of their traditional fan base etc.. but that's a decided MINORITY compared to those who make their decisions on factors like "I've supported the Tigers since I started watching league in 2005, because orange and black are great colours, and Benji Marshall owned that season.. it left a huge impression" or "I've backed Manly since the early 1990s because they had a lot of Kiwi players back in the day, the Sea-Eagle is a cool mascot".

To think most fans of Sydney clubs outside Sydney value the suburb as much as - or more than - the brand is a bit of a stretch.. and I honestly think they'd still cheer for the team (and importantly watch their games & buy merchandise) if they were relocated.
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
Precisely. Many fans of a team that are from outside a team's city or suburb will be fans of the branding (colours, logos, jerseys), or links that their
have with the club, or just jump on the bandwagon of a successful team & then stick with them when the premiership window closes.

Some may delve deeper.. read-up about the club's past, the demographics of their traditional fan base etc.. but that's a decided MINORITY compared to those who make their decisions on factors like "I've supported the Tigers since I started watching league in 2005, because orange and black are great colours, and Benji Marshall owned that season.. it left a huge impression" or "I've backed Manly since the early 1990s because they had a lot of Kiwi players back in the day, the Sea-Eagle is a cool mascot".

To think most fans of Sydney clubs outside Sydney value the suburb as much as - or more than - the brand is a bit of a stretch.. and I honestly think they'd still cheer for the team (and importantly watch their games & buy merchandise) if they were relocated.

I'm a Roosters fan for over 4 decades . I do not like the name Sydney Roosters. I would much rather East Sydney Roosters. I too followed this club for the tricolor jumper but still respect the clubs' origins. I'm also dissapointed that the club has seemingly abandoned it's local junior base, however I'm noticing that some development work is now being done in the eastern suburbs area of Sydney nowadays. The history of a club adds to its credibility and its reality. FANS DIG THAT STUFF!
 

Pommy

Coach
Messages
14,657
A few comments ago you were telling me noone supports Sydney clubs elsewhere around the world. At least if you are lying be consistent please! And people choose to follow clubs for all different types of reasons. So your point is not making sense again. Local relevance being an important part of a clubs history and credibility. To be not seen as a club "running away"/abandoning it's roots is important in the eyes of plenty of fans. There are plenty of other reasons why people support a club. There particular origins is one of those important reasons people shine to a club. You don't think so? Others do.

I was moving to Australia and had an Australian fiancé and was visiting regularly, hardly a normal situation.
 

Pommy

Coach
Messages
14,657
Apparently you were? You are certainly a poor rugby league fan ! That's for sure. (If that's your claim) - could be a lie as well ?

Yes I was a northern Englishman with an Aussie visa in process. The number of people in that situation who also support an NRL team does not constitute these teams being “well supported in the north of England”
 

VictoryFC

Bench
Messages
3,786
Moving teams out of Sydney makes little sense. Moving Warriors to Perth and GC to Brisbane would be wiser than moving Sydney teams.
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
So they’re not NRL fans in the north of England you f**king half wit.

And I have stated that they are aware of the Australian Rugby League. I have travelled in northern England and they are aware of the strength of rugby league in Australia. Nothing stated about being fans. Although I know of people supporting an English rugby-league club. So vice versa could happen!
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,849
Well I guess if you remove one or two, the Sydney Tv audiences and attendances will drop even further, making Tv deals perhaps even less inviting in the biggest commercial market.
Conversely.
With a 25,000 average minimum, only 1.25% attend Broncos games out of 2million.
30,000 average 1.5%.This in a city where rl is king.So where are most of the fans?
And on the GC population 600,000,with say a GC Tit's average 12.000 attendance 2%.
Sobering thought also ,both with excellent stadiums.
IOW it is easy to argue negatives when one delves deeper.

True but there isn’t an over saturation of clubs in those two areas unlike Sydney. There was no drop in tv audience when the bears were removed and clubs merged. No reason to think the removal or relocation of a couple of Sydney clubs is going to have any dramatic effect on the 200-300k fta viewers that tune in for most games from Sydney.
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
True but there isn’t an over saturation of clubs in those two areas unlike Sydney. There was no drop in tv audience when the bears were removed and clubs merged. No reason to think the removal or relocation of a couple of Sydney clubs is going to have any dramatic effect on the 200-300k fta viewers that tune in for most games from Sydney.

There was a drop in viewer numbers in North Sydney after the Bears demise. Todd Greenberg mentioned the issue of lower interest in this part of Sydney on a radio interview a few years ago.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,409
True but there isn’t an over saturation of clubs in those two areas unlike Sydney. There was no drop in tv audience when the bears were removed and clubs merged. No reason to think the removal or relocation of a couple of Sydney clubs is going to have any dramatic effect on the 200-300k fta viewers that tune in for most games from Sydney.

That's correct .But that may not be the case with new stadiums . in place and upgraded out suburban grounds upgraded to NRL standard.I repeat ,there are people who claim there is oversaturation in Sydney,and there are people who don't believe that is the case.
Those who believe that ,are either out of town club supporters, or those who are ATM in a position of financial and or membership strength.
There are people who believe we should only expand into Qld and not go to non heartland areas, as the Suns and GWS have shown it to be too expensive and crowd issues.

But based on the figures I cited for Brisbane hypothetically, adding another team could mean an oversaturation there or indeed if the Broncos lose a number of fans to the new team, and the new team does not get the numbers to attend that they expect.

The TV audiences have hardly grown in Sydney, with rationalising by removing the Bears, and having joint ventures.In fact crowds have not,Bears crowds have not jumped on board other clubs in any numbers, else it would have been reflected in crowds for the likes of the Sea Eagles,Roosters or Tigers.
Some of the joint venture crowds at times have been embarrassing.When Souths were flicked, where did their crowds go? Not to other Sydney clubs.
Rugby league in effect like a big gum tree, ripping away at the roots.Remembering of course local derbies which attract crowds.

Which brings me to the Storm. I am for their existence and introduction, but one wonders what the situation will be with a few years of poor performances, crowdwise and Tv wise.Their fans don't like certain time slots as do Sydney club fans, and this affects crowds enormously.

Mate I've been following rugby league since the late 70s,I've noticed trends, crowd fluctuations,SL wars, joint ventures etc and read and heard about the effects in addition.It's not a case of "no reason to think".When SL war came ,I know of Shark's fans who refused to have anything to do with Murdoch League, and some who were Dragons' fans who simple do not attend because of the loss of the singular St George identity.Look at their crowds now? I've been to the SCG when club games were packed.not now.The 200-300k viewers will be further unenthused, with even less Sydney club supporters because a club was removed.
There are plenty of entertainment choices and venues these days.You can't take fans or people for granted.

It would have been easier to rationalise in Sydney when there was SFA opposition from other codes.Now they are here grabbing more sponsorship, and potential attendees.The AFL have stated categorically ,there will be no more rationalisation in Melbourne.Upsetting passionate fan bases is not the way to go, in today's competitive environment.
That's why Greenburger is spending a hell of a lot of time ,trying to figure out the best way to go.Everyone knows it's a clusterf*ck to make any decision.
I still believe 18 teams with 9 games is the answer ,with a more national spread.You reduce the angst and you retain your supporter base.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
What fans? I started supporting Souths before I moved to Australia. I now live in in south west Sydney what affinity do I have with Redfern or its surrounding areas? I will tell you f**king zero I picked the team because there were 4 poms in the side. Had it been today I would probably have picked Canberra.
What maths? you have failed to provide any maths to support why the area can support 10 teams.

Souths don't even play in Redfern or the surrounding areas! They've already relocated
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
Yes expansion to 18 is most likely whats going to happen. No one is being moved, but they may be allowed to die once new contract is complete.

A combination of expansion and strategic relocation can see the comp gain Wollongong, Gosford, Adelaide, Perth, Brisbane-2, and NZ-2 with only 18 teams
This should be the goal
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
That's correct .But that may not be the case with new stadiums . in place and upgraded out suburban grounds upgraded to NRL standard.I repeat ,there are people who claim there is oversaturation in Sydney,and there are people who don't believe that is the case.
Those who believe that ,are either out of town club supporters, or those who are ATM in a position of financial and or membership strength.
There are people who believe we should only expand into Qld and not go to non heartland areas, as the Suns and GWS have shown it to be too expensive and crowd issues.

But based on the figures I cited for Brisbane hypothetically, adding another team could mean an oversaturation there or indeed if the Broncos lose a number of fans to the new team, and the new team does not get the numbers to attend that they expect.

The TV audiences have hardly grown in Sydney, with rationalising by removing the Bears, and having joint ventures.In fact crowds have not,Bears crowds have not jumped on board other clubs in any numbers, else it would have been reflected in crowds for the likes of the Sea Eagles,Roosters or Tigers.
Some of the joint venture crowds at times have been embarrassing.When Souths were flicked, where did their crowds go? Not to other Sydney clubs.
Rugby league in effect like a big gum tree, ripping away at the roots.Remembering of course local derbies which attract crowds.

Which brings me to the Storm. I am for their existence and introduction, but one wonders what the situation will be with a few years of poor performances, crowdwise and Tv wise.Their fans don't like certain time slots as do Sydney club fans, and this affects crowds enormously.

Mate I've been following rugby league since the late 70s,I've noticed trends, crowd fluctuations,SL wars, joint ventures etc and read and heard about the effects in addition.It's not a case of "no reason to think".When SL war came ,I know of Shark's fans who refused to have anything to do with Murdoch League, and some who were Dragons' fans who simple do not attend because of the loss of the singular St George identity.Look at their crowds now? I've been to the SCG when club games were packed.not now.The 200-300k viewers will be further unenthused, with even less Sydney club supporters because a club was removed.
There are plenty of entertainment choices and venues these days.You can't take fans or people for granted.

It would have been easier to rationalise in Sydney when there was SFA opposition from other codes.Now they are here grabbing more sponsorship, and potential attendees.The AFL have stated categorically ,there will be no more rationalisation in Melbourne.Upsetting passionate fan bases is not the way to go, in today's competitive environment.
That's why Greenburger is spending a hell of a lot of time ,trying to figure out the best way to go.Everyone knows it's a clusterf*ck to make any decision.
I still believe 18 teams with 9 games is the answer ,with a more national spread.You reduce the angst and you retain your supporter base.

Well put and genuinely reflected! Longterm I support 20 clubs. The stuff up occured through the superleague fiasco.
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
5,334
Like the South Sydney mistake! And now the North Sydney mistake which is giving other codes more relevance in the abandoned area ! Gee wiz. It's happening and the whiteanting chatter still keeps going on! Amazingly negative and ignorant.

Souths and Norths are a different story. Souths are far more popular than Norths (although their current crowds in a successful season are poor). Souths had 100 000 people marching through the city, Norths do not - there is no comparison.

Melbourne fans have replaced the Norths fans in far greater number than Norths ever achieved and they are only 20 years old. Melbourne puts the N in NRL and also adds a TV market that is the second largest city in the country.

If a poor performing, low drawing Sydney club were to go under, it's not the end of the world. Perth would come in and usurp their fan base within a couple of decades also, open up yet another TV slot in a major city and truly give us a national footprint. The game becomes instantly bigger and more commercially valuable.

This is why it is important to see what Newtown and Shute Shield are doing. There needs to be a national, televised second teir that caters to nostalgia, suburban grounds and family friendly timeslots in cases where the NRL can't. Then the fans of the relegated club aren't left out in the cold.
 
Top