WHAT DO THE FANS REALLY WANT?

[Wittenberg]

Brian Johnson: “Who made who?”

Some truth in your response Muzby. As fans we couldn’t wait to get rid of Doust and we got Johnston. Couldn’t wait to get rid of Price and got Mary.......

 

[ALSGI]

I was thinking overnight that maybe it's possible to simplify what the issues are with respect to the malaise we are experiencing.
In the end the conclusion I came to revolves around what do league fans really care about and admire about their team.
2 things stood out:
(a) Style of football our team plays - at the end of the day, RL is a spectator sport and in our case, a big part of our weekend pastime.
Following St. George was always such a highlight of my weekend. Even when we weren't doing that well, we still tried to play an exciting brand of football.
I used to love our backlines that featured slashing centre pairings and try scoring wingers.
Fullbacks (Brian Johnson springs to mind) that just knew when to chime in to the backline and were great one on one tacklers.
Beattie and Johnston, Gasnier and Cooper more recently.
Wingers like Blacklock, Walford.
Win lose or draw, it was the club philosophy to give the fans a great brand of football to watch.
Nowadays we get served up a bunch of bash and barge, stereotyped rubbish that is honestly hard to endure let alone get excited about.
We look like and play like a dumb football team that is just making up the numbers.
No direction, no leadership, no ambition and no passion.
(b) Grit and never say die attitude.
If you know your team will never, ever give up no matter what the game situation is, as a fan you sleep easy at night even if you lose.
All league fans love gritty competitive players and teams.
The Cowboys run to the 2017 GF after we gifted them 8th position was astounding.
I admired them for that "never say die" push in the face of adversity without Thurston and having to cope with a bunch of injuries.
Even Souths last night showed incredible fight and determination to hang on and beat Easts.
Manly's siege mentality is something that has worked for them and something McGregor could have fostered a lot more instead of making excuses about JDB and Widdop's injury all the time.
So we currently do not show any grit or determination.
Once we lose the arm wrestle we capitulate. Opposition coaches can actually rely on that to happen and they devise tactics accordingly.
Players and club friendly journos coming out of the woodwork trying to convince the public that it's just bad luck have no personal integrity because empty excuses cannot fix what has happened to St. George.

These two things are the crux of what fans like to see.
After that, the rest doesn't matter.

Dennis and a few others, great posts that spell out what we the fans want but it seems like the Club couldn’t give a flying f**kc about what the fans want. We’re all just a bunch of whingers that have no clue to them.

 

[getsmarty]

Transparency.....

 

[HenryTatana]

A team who tries their guts out.
Doesn't give up.
Doesn't lose games like the Souths loss,.in the last few seconds.
A team that has pride in the red v.
And a team that plays what's in front of them.
AND A NEW COACH.

Sounds the Bennett Year’s.

 

[Qapm]

Some truth in your response Muzby. As fans we couldn’t wait to get rid of Doust and we got Johnston. Couldn’t wait to get rid of Price and got Mary.......

Mary is no longer the problem. Everyone knows his limitations and the max we can expect from him. Time to think about the WINLESS Corp and their role in all this.

 

[getsmarty]

Inside the Dragons' season from hell: 'Everyday, the fans tell me to sack Mary'
Andrew Webster
September 6, 2019 — 8.00pm

• Send via Email

At 4.03pm on Friday, May 17, Dragons coach Paul McGregor sat in front a television in his team's hotel in Mudgee.

He was waiting for the breaking news about their star forward, Jack de Belin, who had taken the Australian Rugby League Commission to the Federal Court over its controversial “no-fault stand down” policy.

Under pressure ... Dragons coach Paul McGregor is fighting to keep his job.Credit:AAP

The Australian and NSW player had been sidelined indefinitely after being charged by police in December following an alleged rape of a 19-year-old woman.

But he was going to be OK to play while the court case played out, according to the Dragons.

For weeks McGregor and the players convinced themselves that the judgment would fall their way. The coach was certain de Belin would be allowed to play on.

De Belin, 28, had continued training with the side, cutting teammates in half in opposed sessions. All that was needed now was the favourable Federal Court judgement that would allow him to take his place on the bench for the match against the Knights in two days' time.

When the news broke at 4.03pm that Justice Melissa Perry had found in the ARLC’s favour — and overwhelmingly so — McGregor was speechless. As for the players, they were furious.

Two days later, the Knights whipped the Dragons 45-12.

In the past week, as speculation swirls about McGregor’s future with his side sitting second last on the ladder, the Herald has spoken to several people at St George Illawarra about how their season has crashed and burned.

They identify this moment in May as the chief reason, as much as angry fans say it’s a cop-out. Nobody at the Dragons anticipated de Belin wouldn’t be playing this season. Perhaps they should have.

While any coach will stand by a player protesting his innocence, it was naive and flawed for McGregor to assume how the Federal Court would rule in such a complex matter.

Can this be the only reason for the Dragons' season from hell? No, and that's the mess the Dragons must unravel and quickly.

“Every day, I’m getting disgruntled supporters asking if I’m sacking Mary,” said Dragons chief executive Brian Johnston, the only person at the Dragons prepared to go on the record. “I tell them that we’re going through a process. We need to follow the process while we have existing [lower grade] teams in the semi-finals. We need to pay respect to them and keep some continuity because all this talk is a distraction at the moment.

“I understand the fans are hurting. We’re all hurting in here. All the staff are suffering more than perhaps some of the players. We’re the one team on the field, off the field, in the office and at home. We all stick together when best we can in the challenging times.”

The "process" is an independent review in the off-season across the entire football department, which will partly involve Phil Gould, who coached McGregor as a player for NSW in the 1990s.

McGregor has regularly sought counsel from the former Panthers general manager, and last week asked him to be an "external set of eyes". Gould has already spoken to McGregor and will speak to senior staff and players next week. He will not make a call on the coach's future, and isn't expected to have any role at the club beyond that.

It already seems decided, though, that assistant coaches Ben Hornby and Mathew Head will be sacked while Dean Young is tipped to survive. He’s considered a head coach of the future, but he’s not yet ready.

 

[getsmarty]

Part 2

But what of the head coach?

Johnston cannot sack McGregor. Only the Dragons board can do that, although the chief executive can make a recommendation.

There are rumblings from the St George side of the merger — although not from their four appointed directors — that a heavy loss to the bottom-placed Titans on the Gold Coast on Saturday night will mean he must go.

Excuses can easily be made — the de Belin saga, captain Gareth Widdop asking for a release, a heavy injury toll — but the manner in which the Dragons have played post-Origin is not acceptable.

The lowest point came in the 77th minute of Sunday’s 42-14 loss to the Wests Tigers at the SCG.

On the other side of halfway, Tigers replacement Josh Reynolds jumped out of dummy half and scooted away as the Dragons’ two markers — Tyson Frizell and Korbin Sims — passively drifted the other way.

Reynolds came to halfback Ben Hunt, who almost appeared to get out the way as Reynolds breezed past before passing inside to Elijah Taylor. Widdop and Jackson Ford came across in cover from different angles but instead of stopping him comically ran into each other as Taylor scored.

In the stands, the Red V faithful among the paltry crowd of 9000 dropped their heads in disappointment, shame, anger.

“Mary hasn’t lost the dressing-room,” insists one Dragons insider.

Maybe not. But, tellingly, his most disappointing players of late have been his senior ones.

What looks likely to save his skin is the decision in April, after just five matches, to re-sign him for a further two years.

The club argues it was done so early to provide stability after a pre-season of madness around de Belin. Another reason often tossed up: he had a 51 per cent winning percentage — the fifth best in the NRL. (McGregor's success rate has dipped to 47 per cent, which is ranked 10th among the current coaches).

This is the point in the discussion when the eyes of Dragons supporters roll back into their heads.

This stat — like all the other numbers regularly tossed up like tries conceded from kicks and so forth — is irrelevant.

What matters most is how you finish the season.

The Dragons finished 11th after McGregor replaced the sacked Steve Price in May. In 2015, they finished eighth but lost to the Bulldogs in the first week of the finals. In 2016, they finished 11th. In 2017, ninth. Last year, after finishing seventh, they pumped the Broncos in the first week of the finals. This remains McGregor’s only finals win after Souths beat his team 13-12 the following week.

This season, the Dragons will finish second last.

No performance clause for the remainder of the season was put in McGregor’s contract extension — nor a clause about paying him out early.

It means it will cost the Dragons roughly $1.2 million to get rid of their coach. Then the club would need to spend more money on a replacement.

How did the club snooker itself like this? Why, after years of notorious late-season fade-outs, didn’t it wait?

When the WIN Corporation last year bought out Illawarra’s 50 per cent stake in the club, it future-proofed the club’s finances. But questions are now being asked by people within the club just how deep the Gordon family, which owns WIN, wants to dig into its pockets.

Dragons chairman Andrew Gordon declined to comment when contacted.

In McGregor’s defence, seasons rarely come much worse, the rot setting in as far back as October when Widdop asked for a release despite having three seasons to run on his deal, because he wanted to return to England.

That rocked the Dragons. It also prompted them to chase Corey Norman, who was on the outer at the Eels.

Securing Norman meant they burned through the salary cap money set aside for a winger, which they needed after Nene Macdonald was released to the Cowboys.

Widdop’s horrific shoulder injury in the early season win over the Broncos seemed to alleviate McGregor’s issues with the spine, allowing Norman to stay in the halves with last year’s regular fullback, Matt Dufty, back in the No.1.

Instead of bringing stability, McGregor has chopped and changed his back three — although, admittedly, sometimes because of injury. Meanwhile, his centres Tim Lafai and Euan Aitken, have become the backline's weakest links.

Yes, the injury gods have not been kind: Widdop, Norman, Frizell, James Graham, Zac Lomax, Tariq and Korbin Sims have all have all spent considerable time on the sidelines.

There have been six broken bones among the playing group. That’s not high-performance mismanagement but merely bad luck.

But the Dragons have mostly been at full strength post-Origin. Last year, after establishing themselves as the competition “benchmark” before face-planting after the interstate series, the need to rest and manage representative players was identified. What happened?

Halfback Ben Hunt, the highest paid player in the club, has been the worst of them.

The most common line out of the club about him is that he takes defeat and criticism to heart. That is a staggering assessment for an Australian and Queensland player, on that much money.

Dragons recruitment manager Ian Millward has received some heat for signing Hunt on $1.2 million per season. It’s a lot of cap space for a player who bruises easily.

But it was McGregor who wanted the former Broncos halfback. “He’s always been the one I wanted,” the coach said early last season when Hunt was firing. It is similar to his statement before this season that “this is the squad I’ve always wanted”.

They are statements Dragons fans have not forgotten.

Sacking the coach, though, is problematic. If he goes, who replaces him?

The campaign for deregistered former Cronulla coach Shane Flanagan is on in earnest but it won’t happen. The NRL won’t say it publicly but his only hope of coaching anywhere next year would be as an assistant.

Other “recycled” coaches are less appealing. Neil Henry or Anthony Griffin? Both have been sacked by their last two clubs. Nathan Brown or Trent Barrett? One’s already had a go while the other couldn’t get a star-studded Manly to the finals.

The obvious candidates are former players Craig Fitzgibbon and Jason Ryles.

But Fitzgibbon has recently signed a fat three-year extension as Trent Robinson’s assistant at the Roosters. Ryles is highly regarded at the Storm but is he ready to piece together a broken team?

Despite the noise about him needing to beat the Titans to survive, McGregor is expected to keep his job because of the size of the payout.

And, if he does, he will be looking for considerable bounce back in 2020.

De Belin’s trial in Wollongong District Court will start on March 2 and is likely to last two weeks, meaning it will finish days before the start of the 2020 season.

Regardless of the verdict, it means he can no longer be used as an excuse if the Dragons fail — again.


https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/in...ans-tell-me-to-sack-mary-20190906-p52oj8.html

 

[sa1nt5]

I was thinking overnight that maybe it's possible to simplify what the issues are with respect to the malaise we are experiencing.
In the end the conclusion I came to revolves around what do league fans really care about and admire about their team.
2 things stood out:
(a) Style of football our team plays - at the end of the day, RL is a spectator sport and in our case, a big part of our weekend pastime.
Following St. George was always such a highlight of my weekend. Even when we weren't doing that well, we still tried to play an exciting brand of football.
I used to love our backlines that featured slashing centre pairings and try scoring wingers.
Fullbacks (Brian Johnson springs to mind) that just knew when to chime in to the backline and were great one on one tacklers.
Beattie and Johnston, Gasnier and Cooper more recently.
Wingers like Blacklock, Walford.
Win lose or draw, it was the club philosophy to give the fans a great brand of football to watch.
Nowadays we get served up a bunch of bash and barge, stereotyped rubbish that is honestly hard to endure let alone get excited about.
We look like and play like a dumb football team that is just making up the numbers.
No direction, no leadership, no ambition and no passion.
(b) Grit and never say die attitude.
If you know your team will never, ever give up no matter what the game situation is, as a fan you sleep easy at night even if you lose.
All league fans love gritty competitive players and teams.
The Cowboys run to the 2017 GF after we gifted them 8th position was astounding.
I admired them for that "never say die" push in the face of adversity without Thurston and having to cope with a bunch of injuries.
Even Souths last night showed incredible fight and determination to hang on and beat Easts.
Manly's siege mentality is something that has worked for them and something McGregor could have fostered a lot more instead of making excuses about JDB and Widdop's injury all the time.
So we currently do not show any grit or determination.
Once we lose the arm wrestle we capitulate. Opposition coaches can actually rely on that to happen and they devise tactics accordingly.
Players and club friendly journos coming out of the woodwork trying to convince the public that it's just bad luck have no personal integrity because empty excuses cannot fix what has happened to St. George.

These two things are the crux of what fans like to see.
After that, the rest doesn't matter.

Yes absolutely true every word we love you Ricky Walford 10 more meters and you would have caught Renouf. Apart from 2010 my favourite game was one we lost by 1 point to Ricky Stuart’s Roosters Browny was the coach. I was at the pub rorters everywhere not one gave any lip and only one or two started doing the cockle doodle doo crow and not one Dragon fan dropped his head, why because both teams played like machines for 80 minutes trying every trick in the book. They had us on paper but couldn’t shake us on the field. The Dragons lost that day but Browny won the battle between the coaches it was fkn epic. I want that back again the score was 9-8 I was never a big Jeff hardy fan but he gave his all every game chook Herron might be the slowest winger to ever play the game but he gave 100% growing up there was no Chica Fergusson no Larry Corowa there was only the Great Ricky Walford for me could have called himself Jesus for all I cared, to me he was that and he was St George none of our current squad elicit that. I now see Flo as the last of St George an end of an era that started shakily in 1921 Once a upon a time they changed the rules to beat us now they may have to change them again so we can keep up and I nearly got into a fight with big mal at his pub because I was too boisterous about our club now I’m just disgusted by this bunch of girls masquerading as St George Rugby league players. Worst thing is Norm Provan is watching this charade

 

[j0nesy]

A team that plays entertaining football, is regularly in the 8, challenges for the top 4 every couple of years and challenges the premiership every now and again.

 

[SaintPauli]

Inside the Dragons' season from hell: 'Everyday, the fans tell me to sack Mary'
Andrew Webster
September 6, 2019 — 8.00pm

• Send via Email

At 4.03pm on Friday, May 17, Dragons coach Paul McGregor sat in front a television in his team's hotel in Mudgee.

He was waiting for the breaking news about their star forward, Jack de Belin, who had taken the Australian Rugby League Commission to the Federal Court over its controversial “no-fault stand down” policy.

Under pressure ... Dragons coach Paul McGregor is fighting to keep his job.Credit:AAP

The Australian and NSW player had been sidelined indefinitely after being charged by police in December following an alleged rape of a 19-year-old woman.

But he was going to be OK to play while the court case played out, according to the Dragons.

For weeks McGregor and the players convinced themselves that the judgment would fall their way. The coach was certain de Belin would be allowed to play on.

De Belin, 28, had continued training with the side, cutting teammates in half in opposed sessions. All that was needed now was the favourable Federal Court judgement that would allow him to take his place on the bench for the match against the Knights in two days' time.

When the news broke at 4.03pm that Justice Melissa Perry had found in the ARLC’s favour — and overwhelmingly so — McGregor was speechless. As for the players, they were furious.

Two days later, the Knights whipped the Dragons 45-12.

In the past week, as speculation swirls about McGregor’s future with his side sitting second last on the ladder, the Herald has spoken to several people at St George Illawarra about how their season has crashed and burned.

They identify this moment in May as the chief reason, as much as angry fans say it’s a cop-out. Nobody at the Dragons anticipated de Belin wouldn’t be playing this season. Perhaps they should have.

While any coach will stand by a player protesting his innocence, it was naive and flawed for McGregor to assume how the Federal Court would rule in such a complex matter.

Can this be the only reason for the Dragons' season from hell? No, and that's the mess the Dragons must unravel and quickly.

“Every day, I’m getting disgruntled supporters asking if I’m sacking Mary,” said Dragons chief executive Brian Johnston, the only person at the Dragons prepared to go on the record. “I tell them that we’re going through a process. We need to follow the process while we have existing [lower grade] teams in the semi-finals. We need to pay respect to them and keep some continuity because all this talk is a distraction at the moment.

“I understand the fans are hurting. We’re all hurting in here. All the staff are suffering more than perhaps some of the players. We’re the one team on the field, off the field, in the office and at home. We all stick together when best we can in the challenging times.”

The "process" is an independent review in the off-season across the entire football department, which will partly involve Phil Gould, who coached McGregor as a player for NSW in the 1990s.

McGregor has regularly sought counsel from the former Panthers general manager, and last week asked him to be an "external set of eyes". Gould has already spoken to McGregor and will speak to senior staff and players next week. He will not make a call on the coach's future, and isn't expected to have any role at the club beyond that.

It already seems decided, though, that assistant coaches Ben Hornby and Mathew Head will be sacked while Dean Young is tipped to survive. He’s considered a head coach of the future, but he’s not yet ready.

Dean Young is dragons defence coach and has been BIG BIG FAIL. Worst defensive record in dragons living memory.

Hornby gone.

Head gone , with minor premiership achieved!

Looks like Dean Young will replace minor premiership winning coach Head.
Does this look like another favouritism board decision or what! Can't hurt Craig Youngs feelings can we!

THIS IS THE CORE PROBLEM!

 

[Coffs dragon]

A well coached team that develops it's players strengths and they make the fans proud with their consistent effort.

 

[Mickthedragon]

Dean Young is dragons defence coach and has been BIG BIG FAIL. Worst defensive record in dragons living memory.

Hornby gone.

Head gone , with minor premiership achieved!

Looks like Dean Young will replace minor premiership winning coach Head.
Does this look like another favouritism board decision or what! Can't hurt Craig Youngs feelings can we!

THIS IS THE CORE PROBLEM!

Well said. This is our biggest issue, apart from getting rid of Mary.
It's the whole set up of the club and the way it is run. Until we get away from the whole "jobs for mates/connections" theme, we'll continue to struggle.
So now we're supposedly doing another friggin' season review, but this time with Phil Gould, and who is he? Mary's mate, and so it continues.
Like getsmarty said earlier, we want transparency as fans and major stake holders but instead the club just treats us all like dirt.

 

[Crush]

I want to see creativity in attack. I want variations in set plays. I want offloads from forwards with quick, hungry backs running off them. I want our centres to look dangerous when they get the ball in space.
I want resistance in defense. I want to feel comfortable when defending our line that 'we got this'
I don't care if we don't dominate and win every game I just want a team that entertains and a team I am proud of again.
I want a new coach before any of this.

 

[BBTB]

Well said. This is our biggest issue, apart from getting rid of Mary.
It's the whole set up of the club and the way it is run. Until we get away from the whole "jobs for mates/connections" theme, we'll continue to struggle.
So now we're supposedly doing another friggin' season review, but this time with Phil Gould, and who is he? Mary's mate, and so it continues.
Like getsmarty said earlier, we want transparency as fans and major stake holders but instead the club just treats us all like dirt.

We want all these parasites.Young's both shown the door
Hornby, Millward, Basically all coaching staff....
Management is also a big problem..... Must account for their performance. (Allowing for this debacle to take place.)
The members & fans
are treated with contemp.
So now we are going to support this Club.
Goodbye....

 

[Dragsters]

Aspiration to be the best in everything and pursuing that goal ruthlessly and relentlessly, coupled with the ability to change when required, then aspiring to be the best in everything again and pursuing that ruthlessly and relentlessly.

This.

That should be WHY they get paid so handsomely.

Not just because the salary cap is what it is...

 

[BLM01]

Inside the Dragons' season from hell: 'Everyday, the fans tell me to sack Mary'
Andrew Webster
September 6, 2019 — 8.00pm

• Send via Email

At 4.03pm on Friday, May 17, Dragons coach Paul McGregor sat in front a television in his team's hotel in Mudgee.

He was waiting for the breaking news about their star forward, Jack de Belin, who had taken the Australian Rugby League Commission to the Federal Court over its controversial “no-fault stand down” policy.

Under pressure ... Dragons coach Paul McGregor is fighting to keep his job.Credit:AAP

The Australian and NSW player had been sidelined indefinitely after being charged by police in December following an alleged rape of a 19-year-old woman.

But he was going to be OK to play while the court case played out, according to the Dragons.

For weeks McGregor and the players convinced themselves that the judgment would fall their way. The coach was certain de Belin would be allowed to play on.

De Belin, 28, had continued training with the side, cutting teammates in half in opposed sessions. All that was needed now was the favourable Federal Court judgement that would allow him to take his place on the bench for the match against the Knights in two days' time.

When the news broke at 4.03pm that Justice Melissa Perry had found in the ARLC’s favour — and overwhelmingly so — McGregor was speechless. As for the players, they were furious.

Two days later, the Knights whipped the Dragons 45-12.

In the past week, as speculation swirls about McGregor’s future with his side sitting second last on the ladder, the Herald has spoken to several people at St George Illawarra about how their season has crashed and burned.

They identify this moment in May as the chief reason, as much as angry fans say it’s a cop-out. Nobody at the Dragons anticipated de Belin wouldn’t be playing this season. Perhaps they should have.

While any coach will stand by a player protesting his innocence, it was naive and flawed for McGregor to assume how the Federal Court would rule in such a complex matter.

Can this be the only reason for the Dragons' season from hell? No, and that's the mess the Dragons must unravel and quickly.

“Every day, I’m getting disgruntled supporters asking if I’m sacking Mary,” said Dragons chief executive Brian Johnston, the only person at the Dragons prepared to go on the record. “I tell them that we’re going through a process. We need to follow the process while we have existing [lower grade] teams in the semi-finals. We need to pay respect to them and keep some continuity because all this talk is a distraction at the moment.

“I understand the fans are hurting. We’re all hurting in here. All the staff are suffering more than perhaps some of the players. We’re the one team on the field, off the field, in the office and at home. We all stick together when best we can in the challenging times.”

The "process" is an independent review in the off-season across the entire football department, which will partly involve Phil Gould, who coached McGregor as a player for NSW in the 1990s.

McGregor has regularly sought counsel from the former Panthers general manager, and last week asked him to be an "external set of eyes". Gould has already spoken to McGregor and will speak to senior staff and players next week. He will not make a call on the coach's future, and isn't expected to have any role at the club beyond that.

It already seems decided, though, that assistant coaches Ben Hornby and Mathew Head will be sacked while Dean Young is tipped to survive. He’s considered a head coach of the future, but he’s not yet ready.

Who at the club sees and has decided that dean Young has a future as a head coach. Mary & Craig Young obviously

 

[avocado]

I want stability ...

 

[Old Timer]

1. KPI’s & accountability to them for all areas of the club including players.
2. A coach who knows how to correct the deficiencies that players have in their games.
3. A team that has passion for playing in the big red v.
4. A team that understands that fans expectations are a reality and that the players & coaching staff need to put their hands up when it goes pear shape instead of making cockamamie excuses.
5. A team where every players busts a gut for the entire game and we can be proud of them win, lose or draw.

 

[redVinme]

I just want milk that tastes like real milk

 

[Forbes Creek Dragons]

Yeah I love the attacking style, as much as I loved that we won in 2010, I much prefer the style played by the 99 team they were a ripping team on paper and played a very exciting style of football, Mary included. I will never get over that GF.