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OT: Current Affairs and Politics

hindy111

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I've watched that and read many articles on it. I have also read a lot of counter positions. Both sides raise some good points and it helped me put McIntyre's position into perspective. Mann certainly didn't help himself and I can see why he has been targeted by the deniers for some fairly sloppy work. But focusing just on his work is a distraction from many other credible arguments.

Where I got to is where I have always been on most complex scientific issues and where I have always been on climate change. It is far more complicated than any one side is suggesting. I am not sure how anyone can be extremely confident one way or the other.

Likewise. But I do not see why individuals can't hold themself accountable. Don't waste. Use power only when needed. Car pool etc.
I'd rather we make changes then not. Reason being why not? I mean why risk it when we are able to change it and avoid the risk. What is to gain by avoiding the potential problem?
 

Gronk

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73,935
*edit, language warning*

Enjoy!

Youtuber try-hard decides that a rant about populism might make him popular. :thinking:

“If I f-bomb in every sentence I will appeal to the youth base “ :thumbsup:

Thing is Mr Youtuber, activism does bring out the passionate and sometimes the loonies. However without those passionate activists, change will never happen because they motivate the lethargic and speak for the apathetic.
 

hindy111

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58,991
Youtuber try-hard decides that a rant about populism might make him popular. :thinking:

“If I f-bomb in every sentence I will appeal to the youth base “ :thumbsup:

Thing is Mr Youtuber, activism does bring out the passionate and sometimes the loonies. However without those passionate activists, change will never happen because they motivate the lethargic and speak for the apathetic.

He had a go at people like you. Hypocrites. You would drive right past me on way to games yet we doubled the pollution cause you wouldn't give me a lift after I politely asked...You go around tooting your horn about climate and saving planet but wont take on any responsibility or be inconvenienced.
But keep blowing your trumpet
 

Poupou Escobar

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84,801
Rich people want carbon tax, because they can afford it. They don't want to be personally inconvenienced while saving the planet. That's a sacrifice less fortunate people should be making.
 

hineyrulz

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I had to laugh last Friday at the whiney school kid protest, some ill informed young person was holding a sign that said “ Save the Reef, Stop Adani”

Lol yeah the reef is only 900k away from the inland Adani mine. You think the teachers who force these kids into their rubbish could at least inform them some of the facts.
 

Gronk

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Staff member
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73,935
He had a go at people like you. Hypocrites. You would drive right past me on way to games yet we doubled the pollution cause you wouldn't give me a lift after I politely asked...You go around tooting your horn about climate and saving planet but wont take on any responsibility or be inconvenienced.
But keep blowing your trumpet
I’ve caught the train to every game this year, bar the first one.

giphy.gif
 

Gronk

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Staff member
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73,935
I had to laugh last Friday at the whiney school kid protest, some ill informed young person was holding a sign that said “ Save the Reef, Stop Adani”

Lol yeah the reef is only 900k away from the inland Adani mine. You think the teachers who force these kids into their rubbish could at least inform them some of the facts.
They are talking about the expansion of the Abbot Point Coal Terminal at Bowen.
 

Gronk

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We fact checked Scott Morrison's speech to the United Nations. Here's what we found
RMIT ABC Fact Check
Posted 9 minutes ago

PHOTO: Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison addresses the 74th session of the United Nations General Assembly at U.N. headquarters in New York City, New York, U.S., September 25, 2019. (Reuters: Lucas Jackson)
Prime Minister Scott Morrison has taken to the international stage to hammer the message that Australia is "taking real action on climate change and we are getting results".

In a speech to the United Nations General Assembly, Mr Morrison accused domestic and global critics of ignoring Australia's achievements in tackling climate change, complaining that "the facts simply don't fit the narrative they wish to project about our contribution".

RMIT ABC Fact Check has previously analysed Australia's record when it comes to reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

Here is our take on some of the key claims made by Mr Morrison in his speech.

Climate change action
"Australia is taking real action on climate change and we are getting results."

Scott Morrison

As Fact Check noted in April, emissions under the Coalition have risen for four of the past five years, and are higher today than they were in 2013.

Fact check: Emissions 'deficit'
Energy Minister Angus Taylor says the Coalition inherited a 755 million tonne emissions "deficit" when it came to office, and that it had since been turned around by 1.1 billion tonnes. Fact Check finds that to be misleading.



Between 2008 and 2013 emissions trended down. But from 2014, following the repeal of Labor's carbon tax, emissions have generally risen.

In 2018, Australia produced 534 million tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent, up 4.3 per cent from 512 million tonnes produced in 2013.

According to the most recent official forecasts, annual emissions will reach 540 million tonnes in 2020.

As Fact Check has previously noted, the Coalition's "Direct Action" emissions reduction fund has played a positive, albeit modest, part in keeping a lid on emissions.

Kyoto commitments
"By 2020, Australia will have overachieved on our Kyoto commitments, reducing our greenhouse gas emissions by 367 million tonnes more than required to meet our 2020 Kyoto target."

Scott Morrison

The second Kyoto target, negotiated in Doha, Qatar in 2012, requires Australia to cut emissions to 5 per cent below 2000 levels by 2020.

A simple calculation, then, would suggest emissions would need to be no more than 524 million tonnes in 2020 to reach this target.

However, the Department of the Environment and Energy has taken a more complicated approach, creating an "emissions budget" for the period 2013 to 2020.

The cumulative effect of this emissions budget is that Australia is limited to emitting almost 4.5 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent in total over the eight years up to and including 2020.

In terms of achieving the 2020 target, what matters — as the department sees it — is whether cumulative actual emissions between 2013 and 2020 turn out to be 4.5 billion tonnes or lower.

As previously noted, in recent years emissions have been trending up under the Coalition's watch. However, Australia is still likely to beat the cumulative emissions target for two main reasons.

First, emissions in the early years of the second Kyoto period turned out to be lower than expected, particularly following the introduction of Labor's carbon tax, which came into effect in July 2012, and was repealed in July 2014.

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Hover and slide
currently at the lowest levels since 1990.

Likewise, the "emissions intensity" of the economy — measured by calculating emissions per dollar of real GDP.

However, these two measures are not particularly meaningful.

As experts have previously told Fact Check, what counts as far as the Earth's atmosphere — and international agreements — are concerned is the total level of emissions.

As Dr Hugh Saddler, an honorary associate professor at ANU's Crawford School of Public Policy put it:

"The atmosphere doesn't care how many people are contributing to emissions; it's the total quantity of emissions that matters."

Moreover, while Australia's emissions per capita have fallen, they remain among the highest in the world.

./2
 

Gronk

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Electricity sector
PHOTO: Hazelwood power station in the La Trobe Valley in Victoria's south-east. (AAP: Greenpeace)

"Australia's electricity sector is producing less emissions. In the year to March 2019, emissions from Australia's electricity sector were 15.7 per cent lower than the peak recorded in the year to June 2009."

Scott Morrison

This is correct, but it has little to do with the policies of the Morrison Government. Using the raw data (which is not adjusted to account for seasonal variations), Australia's electricity sector produced 178.5 million tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent over the 12 months to March 2019.

This was, as Mr Morrison points out, 15.7 per cent lower than the 211.3 million tonnes produced over the year to June 2009.

(If the seasonally adjusted, "weather normalised" data is used, the decline is even bigger).

As previously noted by Fact Check, the fall in electricity sector emissions was the result of rising wholesale prices for electricity, the closure of big, ageing coal-fired power stations in Victoria (Hazelwood) and South Australia (Northern and Playford), and surging investment in renewable energy.

factcheck@rmit.edu.au

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-30/morrison-un-speech/11553594
 

Gronk

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Is it right for Governments to collectively lie about stuff for the better good ?

 

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