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Dragons girls are into the grand final

lynx000

Juniors
Messages
1,320
Im all for trying to develop the womens game but trying to manufacture an elite competition is nonsense. 4 games and a lot of it was pretty poor, if you are one of the thousands of players who play park footie you would be pissed off seeing this. Expand the game into new markets for sure but dont alienate the incumbent markets. What about doing something to showcase park/country league, this used to be the heartland of the game.
Mate with respect I could not disagree more.

They had a fan day for the team at Red Hill on Monday and on the television coverage there were stacks of young girls there meeting their heroes and getting signatures. Those kids will be the next wave of girls playing the game. They will also be mothers of girls and boys and if they have grown up with a love of the game, it is more likely that they will encourage their kids to play league rather than AFL. I think the women's competition is very important to be developed as an important component of growing the game.
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
45,708
Again you are trying to twist what has been said.

Not once have I said the women should never have an elite competition. If you had paid attention you would notice I think the NRL focus too much on ALL elite competitions to the detriment of grass roots.

The stance that I think is wrong is that an elite comp will mean you have a strong grass roots. But, I think you need to have a strong grass roots to have a strong elite comp and then the game will have a future.

The NRL/clubs are spending millions on a 4 team 4 game comp and, I dont care whether its men, women, under 20's, over 40s, that could be used to help stem the decline of league. Get the grass roots working and I believe an elite comp would evolve naturally where all NRL clubs can field a Womens team which, in the long run, would be more sustainable.
No twisting of words.

You’re saying we have too many elite comps.

But we only have two - NRL and NRLW.

Which one do you suggest we remove?
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
8,938
Again you are trying to twist what has been said.

Not once have I said the women should never have an elite competition. If you had paid attention you would notice I think the NRL focus too much on ALL elite competitions to the detriment of grass roots.

The stance that I think is wrong is that an elite comp will mean you have a strong grass roots. But, I think you need to have a strong grass roots to have a strong elite comp and then the game will have a future.

The NRL/clubs are spending millions on a 4 team 4 game comp and, I dont care whether its men, women, under 20's, over 40s, that could be used to help stem the decline of league. Get the grass roots working and I believe an elite comp would evolve naturally where all NRL clubs can field a Womens team which, in the long run, would be more sustainable.

I get what you both are trying to say and are both right.
Without grass roots you dont get the elite....unless...you just rely on importation of the best from other nations and that is not what it was meant to be all about.
Fot the NRLW to grow funding for grass roots must grow. But both women and men.
The only whinge I have about the NRL womens showcase on the big day was because of their short season and comp, they should not of been the prelude to the mens GF, they should of been the game before then the reggies mens then the GF.
Why should all the men who play reggies all year and been playing for years be put back behind and be disadvantaged by potential crowds to accommodate a brief end of season competition that is in its infancy.
Let the womens game evolve to earn their position as a prelude to the big one as it will... but not yet.
I was out there and the atmosphere retreated somewhat after the reggies game.
I have family involved and a womens side at our club so if anything I should be against Carlton too but see his point.
No one is more supportive of growing the womens game, but both women and men need help at lower levels... and I will be a part of next year.
 

Carlton

Juniors
Messages
1,223
Mate with respect I could not disagree more.

They had a fan day for the team at Red Hill on Monday and on the television coverage there were stacks of young girls there meeting their heroes and getting signatures. Those kids will be the next wave of girls playing the game. They will also be mothers of girls and boys and if they have grown up with a love of the game, it is more likely that they will encourage their kids to play league rather than AFL. I think the women's competition is very important to be developed as an important component of growing the game.

Mate with respect I have not said there should not be a womens comp. I am against spending resources and focus artificially manufacturing a 4 team 4 game "Elite" comp. Luckily for you the Brisbane Broncos are in a unique market situation that cannot be replicated in other areas.

In fact I think that too much emphasis is placed on the elite game. I want and think you need elite teams but at the moment the whole strategy is based around TV money and the TV entertainment factor. Overall numbers of players is falling, junior clubs and whole junior competitions are struggling, crowd attendance is poor, many country clubs are under pressure.

Muzby wants to know which Elite comps I am talking about.

First Grade Men
First Grade Women
All Stars
City/Country (now that it is based on origin)
State of Origin

Can they all exist? Yes in time provided the grass roots is kept strong.

The sense of community is being bled out of the game because the NRL are not treating it as a sport first and entertainment second.
 

lynx000

Juniors
Messages
1,320
Mate with respect I have not said there should not be a womens comp. I am against spending resources and focus artificially manufacturing a 4 team 4 game "Elite" comp. Luckily for you the Brisbane Broncos are in a unique market situation that cannot be replicated in other areas.

In fact I think that too much emphasis is placed on the elite game. I want and think you need elite teams but at the moment the whole strategy is based around TV money and the TV entertainment factor. Overall numbers of players is falling, junior clubs and whole junior competitions are struggling, crowd attendance is poor, many country clubs are under pressure.

Muzby wants to know which Elite comps I am talking about.

First Grade Men
First Grade Women
All Stars
City/Country (now that it is based on origin)
State of Origin

Can they all exist? Yes in time provided the grass roots is kept strong.

The sense of community is being bled out of the game because the NRL are not treating it as a sport first and entertainment second.
Yes I understand what you are saying and I think you have a valid point.

To be honest I have lost contact with what the NRL, NSWRL and QRL are doing in terms of supporting grass roots league. What do you think they should be doing or doing better and how would you propose improving the situation?
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
108,131
When we lost to the Roosters
Well you couldnt be forthcoming. How did I miss that?

Mate, that was last year and not a standalone match. I was specifically referring to a standalone match. Shall we talk about which part you did not understand?

No, let's just cut to the chase. Show us the evidence to back up your claim that the NRLW is diverting funds and resources away from the CRL and grass roots Rugby League.
 

SBD82

Coach
Messages
16,905
Again you are trying to twist what has been said.

Not once have I said the women should never have an elite competition. If you had paid attention you would notice I think the NRL focus too much on ALL elite competitions to the detriment of grass roots.

The stance that I think is wrong is that an elite comp will mean you have a strong grass roots. But, I think you need to have a strong grass roots to have a strong elite comp and then the game will have a future.

The NRL/clubs are spending millions on a 4 team 4 game comp and, I dont care whether its men, women, under 20's, over 40s, that could be used to help stem the decline of league. Get the grass roots working and I believe an elite comp would evolve naturally where all NRL clubs can field a Womens team which, in the long run, would be more sustainable.
Is it diverting funds though? Are the NRL truly spending millions without an expectation of a return on their investment?

The women’s game is attracting sponsorship and generating tv revenue. Sure it’s not at the same level as the men’s game, but it’s an income stream for the game. For all their faults, the NRL are pretty good at generating revenue.

Even if they are currently running at a loss they would surely be projecting profit in the near future. Wouldn’t that allow further investment in grassroots football?
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
45,708
Muzby wants to know which Elite comps I am talking about.

First Grade Men
First Grade Women
All Stars
City/Country (now that it is based on origin)
State of Origin
Ahh.. I love how you’ve taken to answering my questions via reply to others..

City country died before the womens comp started, so that’s null and void..

All stars is a one off that does wonders for aboriginal communities (not just a good cause but wouldn’t you say that’s key grass roots for the game?)

And state of origin is the cash cow for the NRL. Without those 3 games, there’s far less cash for grass roots..
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
108,131
The only whinge I have about the NRL womens showcase on the big day was because of their short season and comp, they should not of been the prelude to the mens GF, they should of been the game before then the reggies mens then the GF.
Why should all the men who play reggies all year and been playing for years be put back behind and be disadvantaged by potential crowds to accommodate a brief end of season competition that is in its infancy.
Let the womens game evolve to earn their position as a prelude to the big one as it will... but not yet.
The day has the NRL Grand Final as the headliner. The NRL are running it so the NRL get to decide on the schedule.

The NRLW is run by the NRL, so it makes sense that they to want to give it best possible promotion.

The mens reggies have already had their Grand Finals. The game we saw was run by the NSWRL and QRL. While the NSW champs vs Qld champs is a great concept, it really has nothing to do with the NRL competitions.

Look at the success of other sports. The womens cricket team, the soccer team... the Matildas are now a big brand name. There is clearly a market for womens sport. The NRL obviously see the NRLW as an investment and will do what is feasable to give it the promotion it needs to expand.

So it looks like a business decision. Some people might think it is about affirmative action, which is OK as well, but imo that's not the reasoning behind the scheduling.
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
8,938
The day has the NRL Grand Final as the headliner. The NRL are running it so the NRL get to decide on the schedule.

The NRLW is run by the NRL, so it makes sense that they to want to give it best possible promotion.

The mens reggies have already had their Grand Finals. The game we saw was run by the NSWRL and QRL. While the NSW champs vs Qld champs is a great concept, it really has nothing to do with the NRL competitions.

Look at the success of other sports. The womens cricket team, the soccer team... the Matildas are now a big brand name. There is clearly a market for womens sport. The NRL obviously see the NRLW as an investment and will do what is feasable to give it the promotion it needs to expand.

So it looks like a business decision. Some people might think it is about affirmative action, which is OK as well, but imo that's not the reasoning behind the scheduling.
Yeh all noble comments but point is mainly the order of it...if think at this stage where there competition is at (4 teams - 3 week hitout) and how long been running that It should be before the state cup final.
Still gets the promotion it needs. So we will agree to disagree on that and as I said I have a persoanl interest in the womens side so no bias either way
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
45,708
Yeh all noble comments but point is mainly the order of it...if think at this stage where there competition is at (4 teams - 3 week hitout) and how long been running that It should be before the state cup final.
Still gets the promotion it needs. So we will agree to disagree on that and as I said I have a persoanl interest in the womens side so no bias either way
We currently have a 2 team comp that only plays 3 matches in the middle of the year, and that gets a bucketload of resource and support from the NRL, not to mention prime time viewing..
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
8,938
We currently have a 2 team comp that only plays 3 matches in the middle of the year, and that gets a bucketload of resource and support from the NRL, not to mention prime time viewing..
Why is that.....origin has been going since 1980 and is now the pinnacle of our rugby league and has and always will attract a larger TV and ground audience, and it is not played on GF day to steal that limelight
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
45,708
Why is that.....origin has been going since 1980 and is now the pinnacle of our rugby league and has and always will attract a larger TV and ground audience, and it is not played on GF day to steal that limelight
I don’t think the plan of playing the NRLW GF on Grand Final day was to steal the limelight...

And I always say be careful using the “has and always will” statements..

Has: The grand final has received higher TV audiences and ground attendances in the past vs SOO, even in recent years..

Always will: Firstly, there’s every chance next year’s GF could get a higher TV audience than any of the SOO games... And secondly, maybe I’m just feeling jaded with the concept but I reckon Origin has neared it’s peak, as the NRL will kill the goose that gives their golden eggs..
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
108,131
Yeh all noble comments but point is mainly the order of it...if think at this stage where there competition is at (4 teams - 3 week hitout) and how long been running that It should be before the state cup final.
Still gets the promotion it needs. So we will agree to disagree on that and as I said I have a persoanl interest in the womens side so no bias either way
Not meant to be noble comments, my point was that the NRL runs the day. That's a fact.

Great to hear of your personal interests but not really part of any agree/disagree.

We have people saying the NRLW is taking money away from juniors, without any proof to that claim. And then we have the view that women should wait their turn, despite the fact that women's sport is growing.

And yes... there's always some of my best friends are women but... etc.

In any case, we don't seem to have too many supporters looking for faults. The biggest criticism is there should be more games, which is a positive response. In time there will be more games. The NRLW is set to get bigger.
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
8,938
I don’t think the plan of playing the NRLW GF on Grand Final day was to steal the limelight...

And I always say be careful using the “has and always will” statements..

Has: The grand final has received higher TV audiences and ground attendances in the past vs SOO, even in recent years..

Always will: Firstly, there’s every chance next year’s GF could get a higher TV audience than any of the SOO games... And secondly, maybe I’m just feeling jaded with the concept but I reckon Origin has neared it’s peak, as the NRL will kill the goose that gives their golden eggs..
You are going into areas taking my original post to somewhere where it was not and are not intesrested in arguing about. I will say it again I want the girls NRL games to flourish as have and interest personally and at club land.
All I said originally was play the game before reserrve grade state cup play off not as a prelude to the mens game.
Because if you guys were there as I was you would of seen the drop in atmosphere from the excitement of the state cup GF to the girls game as the prelude to the GF...the stands emptied a bit before kick off and at this stage of its development and where the game is at to keep the momentum of the day it should of been the other way around. To each their own I suppose.
If you want to talk TV audiences of people actually watching the GF...I am not in a debate about the GF v SOO but if you are so right on stats how many people watched the State Cup V Girls.
Yes more TV's get switched on as you get closer to the big game if that is what you elude too so they get more exposure but as a TV spectacle I think my opinion would of supported the switch of times for now.
It certainly did out at the game.
 
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BLM01

First Grade
Messages
8,938
Not meant to be noble comments, my point was that the NRL runs the day. That's a fact.

Great to hear of your personal interests but not really part of any agree/disagree.

We have people saying the NRLW is taking money away from juniors, without any proof to that claim. And then we have the view that women should wait their turn, despite the fact that women's sport is growing.

And yes... there's always some of my best friends are women but... etc.

In any case, we don't seem to have too many supporters looking for faults. The biggest criticism is there should be more games, which is a positive response. In time there will be more games. The NRLW is set to get bigger.
You dont or anyone else has to agree or disagree with me.
Other peoples beliefs and arguments you just mention arre theirs.
Waiting their turn!...they have so far and it is up and running earlier than planned anyway so there is nothing wrong with waiting their turn. When they have more support and traction than the state cup on GF day or during a season you talk about and however soon that is I will change my tune...but not yet

You will have no argument from me about growth as i have seen so far in 2 years how much traction it has game from girls leaving OZtag to tackle and wanting to play senior level.

And as I told Muz I believe (and me only) that it should be the other way around in order of the GF day to gain the momentum of the build up at their current stage of where their public support is at
Why?......If I take my personal involvement out and put just a GF supporter hat on...watching the day and getting wrapped up in the excitement of the build up to the big one I was disappointed for the girls in the change of atmosphere and I know how happy they were to play and be there in front of how many there were watching and cheering anyway. See to the girls it would not of mattered when..but for the supporters out there I believe it did.
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
45,708
You dont or anyone else has to agree or disagree with me.
Other peoples beliefs and arguments you just mention arre theirs.
Waiting their turn!...they have so far and it is up and running earlier than planned anyway so there is nothing wrong with waiting their turn. When they have more support and traction than the state cup on GF day or during a season you talk about and however soon that is I will change my tune...but not yet

You will have no argument from me about growth as i have seen so far in 2 years how much traction it has game from girls leaving OZtag to tackle and wanting to play senior level.

And as I told Muz I believe (and me only) that it should be the other way around in order of the GF day to gain the momentum of the build up at their current stage of where their public support is at
Why?......If I take my personal involvement out and put just a GF supporter hat on...watching the day and getting wrapped up in the excitement of the build up to the big one I was disappointed for the girls in the change of atmosphere and I know how happy they were to play and be there in front of how many there were watching and cheering anyway. See to the girls it would not of mattered when..but for the supporters out there I believe it did.
Was the change in atmosphere due to the match being a one way encounter instead of a close match like the ones either side - or was it because they were women?

I think you’ll find it’s the former.. There have been plenty of one sided matches on grand final day, even in the big dance.. And unless it’s your team handing out the thrashing, it gets pretty boring - a great time to head to the bar or chat to your mate next to you instead of watching the game...

Nevertheless, for atmosphere on the day I’d take a 30 point thrashing watching Dapto play Figtree instead of One Republic doing a cover of a Beyoncé ballad...
 
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