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Why ignore our history?

Messages
84
A question that came to my mind a lot while watching the 2019 Dragons run around was, why are we playing week after week with no heart? Do these players not know or realise what they are playing for and what jersey they are wearing? Judging from the ladder position and the boycott that almost happened, I'm guessing the answer is no. And it makes me worry. Why have we lost, who we are?

It's often a point of complaint that we're a jobs for the boys club and that Mary is a bad coach, but take a look around the league and we're not a one off scenario.

The Raiders: Have an old boy at the helm and he's made his team and town believe in what they are representing. Each one of those boys (half of which are not from Australia) know the history of the club and the legends that have worn the jersey before them. Even Ricky has his player number on his club shirt.

Bulldogs: These guys have no right to even be within reach of the 8, but they have an old boy who's made them believe the family club/dogs of war culture and they went on an end of season run that had a shot at the 8.

Manly: An absolute basket case under Trent. Salary cap and off field scandals and no one had them in the 8. They get an old boy back who buys into the culture and suddenly they're a threat for the title.

Roosters: Need I got into detail. Back to back premierships with an old boy at the helm. Listen to the Gus Gould podcast and you hear Robbo talk about how he brought the history back into the club and the pride in the jersey that comes with it. Every player has bought into it.

I'll even go as far as to say Melbourne have a better culture than us. People want to play for that jersey.

Why, where and when did we go so wrong. We have the greatest history out of any other club, we have an old boy who captained us to a Grand Final and captained the Illawarra before that. We have a CEO who played for St.George and yet the players don't have a clue what they are playing for and as a fan, it hurts to watch.

I'm not gonna jump on a merger argument or anything like that, but St.George for some reason has lost it's way.
Gould said in his review that St.George has no clear DNA, they players and board all have a different idea of who we are. In my opinion to go forward we need to look back and remember what playing for St.George means and the best way to do that is for the club to educate the players on who they are playing for, who came before them, who wore that jersey and what is means to pull it on.
 

2010

Bench
Messages
3,490
A question that came to my mind a lot while watching the 2019 Dragons run around was, why are we playing week after week with no heart? Do these players not know or realise what they are playing for and what jersey they are wearing? Judging from the ladder position and the boycott that almost happened, I'm guessing the answer is no. And it makes me worry. Why have we lost, who we are?

It's often a point of complaint that we're a jobs for the boys club and that Mary is a bad coach, but take a look around the league and we're not a one off scenario.

The Raiders: Have an old boy at the helm and he's made his team and town believe in what they are representing. Each one of those boys (half of which are not from Australia) know the history of the club and the legends that have worn the jersey before them. Even Ricky has his player number on his club shirt.

Bulldogs: These guys have no right to even be within reach of the 8, but they have an old boy who's made them believe the family club/dogs of war culture and they went on an end of season run that had a shot at the 8.

Manly: An absolute basket case under Trent. Salary cap and off field scandals and no one had them in the 8. They get an old boy back who buys into the culture and suddenly they're a threat for the title.

Roosters: Need I got into detail. Back to back premierships with an old boy at the helm. Listen to the Gus Gould podcast and you hear Robbo talk about how he brought the history back into the club and the pride in the jersey that comes with it. Every player has bought into it.

I'll even go as far as to say Melbourne have a better culture than us. People want to play for that jersey.

Why, where and when did we go so wrong. We have the greatest history out of any other club, we have an old boy who captained us to a Grand Final and captained the Illawarra before that. We have a CEO who played for St.George and yet the players don't have a clue what they are playing for and as a fan, it hurts to watch.

I'm not gonna jump on a merger argument or anything like that, but St.George for some reason has lost it's way.
Gould said in his review that St.George has no clear DNA, they players and board all have a different idea of who we are. In my opinion to go forward we need to look back and remember what playing for St.George means and the best way to do that is for the club to educate the players on who they are playing for, who came before them, who wore that jersey and what is means to pull it on.
Very well written, right to the point, we should never lose where we came from and that famous book called, I think “Never Before Never Again” says a lot
 

nontime111

Juniors
Messages
1,623
A question that came to my mind a lot while watching the 2019 Dragons run around was, why are we playing week after week with no heart? Do these players not know or realise what they are playing for and what jersey they are wearing? Judging from the ladder position and the boycott that almost happened, I'm guessing the answer is no. And it makes me worry. Why have we lost, who we are?

It's often a point of complaint that we're a jobs for the boys club and that Mary is a bad coach, but take a look around the league and we're not a one off scenario.

The Raiders: Have an old boy at the helm and he's made his team and town believe in what they are representing. Each one of those boys (half of which are not from Australia) know the history of the club and the legends that have worn the jersey before them. Even Ricky has his player number on his club shirt.

Bulldogs: These guys have no right to even be within reach of the 8, but they have an old boy who's made them believe the family club/dogs of war culture and they went on an end of season run that had a shot at the 8.

Manly: An absolute basket case under Trent. Salary cap and off field scandals and no one had them in the 8. They get an old boy back who buys into the culture and suddenly they're a threat for the title.

Roosters: Need I got into detail. Back to back premierships with an old boy at the helm. Listen to the Gus Gould podcast and you hear Robbo talk about how he brought the history back into the club and the pride in the jersey that comes with it. Every player has bought into it.

I'll even go as far as to say Melbourne have a better culture than us. People want to play for that jersey.

Why, where and when did we go so wrong. We have the greatest history out of any other club, we have an old boy who captained us to a Grand Final and captained the Illawarra before that. We have a CEO who played for St.George and yet the players don't have a clue what they are playing for and as a fan, it hurts to watch.

I'm not gonna jump on a merger argument or anything like that, but St.George for some reason has lost it's way.
Gould said in his review that St.George has no clear DNA, they players and board all have a different idea of who we are. In my opinion to go forward we need to look back and remember what playing for St.George means and the best way to do that is for the club to educate the players on who they are playing for, who came before them, who wore that jersey and what is means to pull it on.
thanks, they need to get all of us here on the forum on for weekly talks and reminders! Im sure this will get em back breathing FIRE again !
 

Coffs dragon

Bench
Messages
4,247
We lost 50% of our culture when the JV formed and so our famous history was diluted.
As the Illawarra Steelers had no history of success, there was even less history to draw upon and build upon.
So now we are left with a JV with the management based in Saints Leagues Kogarah with the Football operations plus training in the Gong. We split our home game between 4 grounds and yet only seem to wear our famous iconic RedV jersey to half the matches.
The Chairman of the Board has eyes only for the Illawarra and keeping his mate Mary still at the helm.
Phil Gould is 100% correct in that our club has lost it's DNA and has no real culture. Even the players are split living between Sydney & the South Coast in friendship cliques.

In history, you learn by your mistakes. Well the Dragons have 2012 to 2020 to draw upon as what not to do and must correct in order to succeed.
Personally, I feel the only way forward is for the club to bite the bullet and Decide on 1 home only and have a complete broom thru the management & structure.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
108,131
The word you are looking for is culture, not history.
Heritage actually. The history will be acknowledged and the culture will be part of this.

It was about 15-20 years ago when a bloke wrote about our lack of identity becoming a major issue amongst the team. The counter-argument to this was that players are professionals and they should be able to play in any jersey and at any venue and still play to the best of their ability.

The coaching style even developed an attitude where the players should not be reminded of the past, and the greatness of St George was placing unfair burdens and unreasonable expectations on the young and modern players of early 2000s.

But the bloke pointed to those games when players performed poorly. He drew comparisons, showing past results and how pride played its part in those victories. The modern players had forgotten where they came from and this was contributing to the lack of mental fortitude. After all, he argued, come to the game with the right mental attitude and you have already won half the battle. A coach, backed by the Club, must take every possible advantage on offer... and St George have a gold mine of heritage at its disposal.

I find it amusing that here we are in 2019 and we're hearing buzz words like 'DNA'. Someone has come up with the bright idea that the players need to find some pride. The question is, where did we lose it?
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
8,943
A question that came to my mind a lot while watching the 2019 Dragons run around was, why are we playing week after week with no heart? Do these players not know or realise what they are playing for and what jersey they are wearing? Judging from the ladder position and the boycott that almost happened, I'm guessing the answer is no. And it makes me worry. Why have we lost, who we are?

It's often a point of complaint that we're a jobs for the boys club and that Mary is a bad coach, but take a look around the league and we're not a one off scenario.

The Raiders: Have an old boy at the helm and he's made his team and town believe in what they are representing. Each one of those boys (half of which are not from Australia) know the history of the club and the legends that have worn the jersey before them. Even Ricky has his player number on his club shirt.

Bulldogs: These guys have no right to even be within reach of the 8, but they have an old boy who's made them believe the family club/dogs of war culture and they went on an end of season run that had a shot at the 8.

Manly: An absolute basket case under Trent. Salary cap and off field scandals and no one had them in the 8. They get an old boy back who buys into the culture and suddenly they're a threat for the title.

Roosters: Need I got into detail. Back to back premierships with an old boy at the helm. Listen to the Gus Gould podcast and you hear Robbo talk about how he brought the history back into the club and the pride in the jersey that comes with it. Every player has bought into it.

I'll even go as far as to say Melbourne have a better culture than us. People want to play for that jersey.

Why, where and when did we go so wrong. We have the greatest history out of any other club, we have an old boy who captained us to a Grand Final and captained the Illawarra before that. We have a CEO who played for St.George and yet the players don't have a clue what they are playing for and as a fan, it hurts to watch.

I'm not gonna jump on a merger argument or anything like that, but St.George for some reason has lost it's way.
Gould said in his review that St.George has no clear DNA, they players and board all have a different idea of who we are. In my opinion to go forward we need to look back and remember what playing for St.George means and the best way to do that is for the club to educate the players on who they are playing for, who came before them, who wore that jersey and what is means to pull it on.

Well said but 3 points
1. Lot of young players dont buy into the historic club culture anymore no matter how many old players you get back and how many speeches, viedos and soap boxes you get out
2. Old boy does not necessarily mean good coach and to make players tick you need to truly deeply earn their respect which is very hard to do. Clearly McExcuse has not but that will never be aired or admitted publicly (Joey Johns almost eluded to it)
3. It does start at the top and board level and filter down and we clearly except for Bennett coaching have not had the right people in all football departments for some time
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
45,708
Heritage actually. The history will be acknowledged and the culture will be part of this.

It was about 15-20 years ago when a bloke wrote about our lack of identity becoming a major issue amongst the team. The counter-argument to this was that players are professionals and they should be able to play in any jersey and at any venue and still play to the best of their ability.

The coaching style even developed an attitude where the players should not be reminded of the past, and the greatness of St George was placing unfair burdens and unreasonable expectations on the young and modern players of early 2000s.

But the bloke pointed to those games when players performed poorly. He drew comparisons, showing past results and how pride played its part in those victories. The modern players had forgotten where they came from and this was contributing to the lack of mental fortitude. After all, he argued, come to the game with the right mental attitude and you have already won half the battle. A coach, backed by the Club, must take every possible advantage on offer... and St George have a gold mine of heritage at its disposal.

I find it amusing that here we are in 2019 and we're hearing buzz words like 'DNA'. Someone has come up with the bright idea that the players need to find some pride. The question is, where did we lose it?
The heritage of the club is still there - it can’t be lost.. Forgotten maybe, but not lost..

The that we appear to have a bunch of selfish folk in management and playing squad comes down to a culture issue..

We get everyone accountable to each other to not let down the guy beside him and you get a culture of playing for the jersey, not the individual..

This is what the top 4 coaches did well this year..
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
8,943
In 2 words.....player agents.

The intro or use of player agents has created the $$$ before dedication, particularly around contract time, after all they are looking at $$$ too.
Dont leave ouit the NRL administration in that argumernt also chasing and throwing out $$$$ before commonsense
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
8,943
Players these days don’t care about clubs or history I reckon, especially the younger ones. There’s your Paul Gallen’s and Nightingale’s but for the most part once they make FG it’s all about career and money.
100%..it happens at 1st grade and lower country level.. earning or expecting to earn $$$ and not wanting to do anything off field for it.
Goes back deeper to upbringing and lack of respect for seniority or authority and in sport every one is equal and a winner mentality.
 

Slippery Morris

First Grade
Messages
7,395
The reason the Dogs sacked Hasler is because they lost their DNA. I remember when Mortimer stated it ages ago. They bring in an old boy and they are now slowly regaining that DNA.

Saints losing their DNA is the fault of the 2 coaches that took over after Bennett as Saints were playing like the team that had a proud history and a great DNA. Just because you played for the club does not mean you will always have the clubs interest at hand. One way this stands out to me is when your team is getting flogged you should feel bitter and not smiling as if nothing happened straight after in a conference. I saw that with Price and Mary too many times for my liking. They go to a conference and it is all a joke. That is the most obvious for me. Dean Pay and Ricky Stuart have never laughed off or even smiled on a bad performance. You can see in their faces that they are going to tear strips out of their players and get a reaction. When you hear Mary and Price make out that it was a 1 off and we have time to make the 8, that shows that are not changing anything just hoping they get better doing what they are doing. There is no shame in a bad performance just this attitude of next week will be better. If those are not red flags then nothing is and it is clear the guys at the top don't bother looking at press conferences, performances etc just happy to turn up to work the next day and get their huge paycheck. That is the DNA of the club that filters through now which starts from the top. Just turn up, get paid every week and go through the motions. No care factor at all for the club and it's fans because the hard work these old guys did in the 50-60' to make this a great club is making these lazy blokes live like kings on past glories.
 

Dragons2020

Juniors
Messages
52
I got no or problem with the JV and I appreciate every side has shit years but this situation is f**king crap it looks like no one in management gives a f**k about being successful it looks like this shit could last for f**king years.
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
45,708
I got no or problem with the JV and I appreciate every side has shit years but this situation is f**king crap it looks like no one in management gives a f**k about being successful it looks like this shit could last for f**king years.
You should have called yourself Dragons2023...
 

TruSaint

Referee
Messages
20,093
Call it what you want. Culture / DNA / history / etc etc etc...

Those terms appear to be in abundance when we are winning. Think back to 09-11 period. Commentators would never write us off during a game, our history was referred to at nauseam, ( its been soooo long for the Red V ), merchandise sales through the roof, at one point in 2011, the betting agencies suspended bets on the minor premiership. Anyone remember that ?

Start winning ( and that starts at the top ), and watch our so called "identity" referred to. Shit happens when you barely draw 9k at our 2 home grounds, run second last, and management appear to be comatosed.

Blame Mary or our roster all you wish. Until the board of directors start changing the path we are on, then expect the status quo to continue.

This isn't a " one off " season. Its a decade of failure, and it reaches well beyond an incompetent coach.
 

SaintPauli

Juniors
Messages
1,179
Joint venture, not merger.
Hmmm!
Joint venture? or
Merger?

I am speaking from a St George dragons perspective here.
Either way when the Joint venture or Merger ! Occured St George dragons lost their liscence to the point of not being able to add to their history.
This has created resentment amongst fans and ridicule from opposition fans.

Quite simply the successful identity and culture the club used had been lost. The joint venture or merger banded people from two different clubs with light years success and experience between them. A recipe which has spanned almost 2 decades of sub par performances and worst in dragons history.
i.e. apart from the Bennett 3 year era.

History is a great catalist to create culture. Roosters and Souths being great examples.
 
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