How pointless were the 'GB Lions' and this Tour

[Matua]

I wonder how much different this thread and thoughts on this tour would be if GB had actually won all their games. The vibe seems to be call them England and they'd play harder and win.

 

[Walter sobchak]

I wonder how much different this thread and thoughts on this tour would be if GB had actually won all their games. The vibe seems to be call them England and they'd play harder and win.

It was a sh#t show of a tour from the beginning, middle and end. The performance and results of GB are secondary.

 

[RedVee]

Didn’t pick Grace because he isn’t eligible for England... is that correct ?
Wow, wouldnt that be the point of a GB tour ?

 

[MKCS]

The GB team is pretty much England. I don't think they magically lose all motivation because they're playing for Britain and not England.

Bennett I'd get rid of. He isn't in Super League and can't watch these players as much as he probably should. Not sure who the best coach in ESL is but whoever that is that is actually English and coaching in their domestic comp should get the nod.

Entire backline should be tossed aside except for Lomax but I think Tomkins should probably have that spot also. Problem is both guys are 29 and 30 respectively meaning they'll get maybe one more World Cup out of them and that's it.

England must have a better halves combination than Widdop/Hastings also. Have heard this George Williams fella is good and he'll be playing NRL next year so he seems the natural choice to replace one of the two. Widdop I think is past it and will probably play out 2-3 average years in Super League and be done.

Forwards need to be gutted also. I'd keep Hodgson just because I follow NRL and know how good he can be and Bateman/Whitehead stay because those two are dominating the NRL but the rest should be moved on. Would keep Walmsley and MAYBE Graham as an experienced bench prop.

So yeah not looking good for England on paper. Going off my above ramblings they need to drop about 12-13 guys and find suitable replacements. I agree with the poster above who said this tour probably should've been filled with English guys building combinations and bonding ahead of the World Cup in 2021. Instead Wayne is being loyal to guys 30+ who likely won't even make it to the tournament.

 

[deluded pom?]

I wonder how much different this thread and thoughts on this tour would be if GB had actually won all their games. The vibe seems to be call them England and they'd play harder and win.

It’s not just the name of the team. The whole tour was poorly arranged. We had a couple of months notice before the confirmation of any hard facts about venues and dates. This left little time for many interested supporters to, literally, get on board. The selection of three Australian players didn’t sit well with a lot of people. WB using this squad to push a wholly England agenda. I wonder if he selected Coote on his NRL experience rather than realising he plays for Scotland? The whole thing has come across as an afterthought and IMO the players have responded in kind. Having said all that this looks like an ageing team whose best days are behind them.

 

[Big Salad]

I'd be shocked if Bennett's contract is renewed but I can understand what he is trying to do. He doesn't care about the results, he has primarily used this tour as a fact finding mission leading up to the World Cup, particularly in relation to his halves which is why so many were selected. Better to see them all first hand at training and games now than to be left wondering come the World Cup.

If this series had been held in the UK then I'm sure more backline players would've been involved in the squad and the games but that is clearly not his priority at the moment.

The forward pack would be the biggest concern without Sam Burgess there any more.

 

[Nuke]

The reason the Great Britain concept was turfed out years ago was to make each UK country stronger individually. I thought it was a concept essentially deemed 'never to return', so I was surprised when they announced the GB tour. And I think it should be shelved again.

 

[Walter sobchak]

The reason the Great Britain concept was turfed out years ago was to make each UK country stronger individually. I thought it was a concept essentially deemed 'never to return', so I was surprised when they announced the GB tour. And I think it should be shelved again.

The GB concept was made redundant in 1995 when rugby union went professional and the need for talented welsh Union players to cross the divide in order to make decent money ended.

Anybody with half a brain cell could have told you that nobody cares and that the GB concept is a relic that should have stayed in the past where it belongs unless that is of course you are a genius that works for the RFL.

 

[Springs09]

Whole thing was shit from the moment the schedule was announced. Did anyone really expect sold out stadiums in NZ for this?

Players didn't look interested because why would they?

The GB team is pretty much England. I don't think they magically lose all motivation because they're playing for Britain and not England.

I'm sure they'd have plenty of motivation if they were playing in a meaningful tournament or series no matter what shirt they were wearing.

For England - they needed younger players no matter if they won or lost. McGillvary and Hall are most likely done, they could both probably still do the job but Makinson, Johnstone and Handley look better choices. Lomax to me seems like England's best half. Haven't seen young Trueman play yet but is he good enough to be a regular international 7? Widdop has always been average in the halves for England but went quite good at 1. Has Jack Walker come along any good?

Graham will be Graham as long as he plays. Thompson looks good. Stevie Ward and Ben Currie should add a bit. Leeds had a young player Cameron Smith up and coming last I looked, has he gone any good lately?

 

[NRLMad]

Sorry he’s English - Gareth Obrien?

 

[King hit]

The decline of Great Britain is disappointing. I remember when I started watching rugby league, the poms did beat us in a few games. There were some real blood and thunder games, the 2003 series and 2006 Sydney come to mind. They were terrible in New Zealand. Blake Austin on the wing ffs

 

[Springs09]

Sorry he’s English - Gareth Obrien?

Eligible for Ireland

 

[southwalesrabbitoh]

I wonder how much different this thread and thoughts on this tour would be if GB had actually won all their games. The vibe seems to be call them England and they'd play harder and win.

Lol. I doubt that is true. Being on the BBC doesn't help, would be better if we were on Channel 5, could have taken the Kiwi commentary which was better, don't like D Woods, well don't like almost all English commentators, well don't like most commentators where ever they live.

 

[BuderusIsaBeast]

As an Aussie i'm not too fussed if it's GB or England, however you can make a decent argument for Great Britain despite the shambles of a tour.

Often the argument is brought up that it is simply England in a different shirt, however that may not be the case over the next few seasons and imo shouldn't have been this year.

Morgan Knowles and Regan Grace are 23 and 22 with multiple tests for Wales. Knowles almost certainty would have been picked for Great Britain if not for injury and imo Grace should have been. If their career trajectory continues they could easily be in the top 17 for Great Britain as early as next season.

Wales last 4 Home Tests have been played in front of crowds of 1257, 902, 1028 and 1253. There is nothing wrong with that for an emerging nation standard. However for 2 elite players in Regan and Morgan that is poor compared to test matches a Great Britain team would be involved in (both crowds and stature).

On top of that, performance wise Wales is also struggling to match the more elite teams. Again, nothing wrong for an emerging nation, however elite players want to play with other elite players. In 2017 WC, Wales were smashed 50 to 6 against PNG and 72 to 6 against Fiji. You can imagine the kind of score line they would be hit with against the likes of Australia or England.

Fast forward to the end of the season and Australia are about to play an Ashes Series against England. Morgan Knowles can choose between being a part of a sold out Ashes Series or a low key test in front of 2000 at most. Morgan will play for England (as he has every right to do) and Wales will lose him. Regan Grace who is Welsh born has a similar choice, I have no doubt Regan qualifies for England via residency or some type of grandparent. Either Regan plays for Wales in front of 2000 or in a high profile Ashes series. So Wales lose both players to a rival country, or worse they go to Union.

If it's Great Britain they can both play in high profile games without needing to change their country. They can play as Wales in WC or even if it's just Great Britain all the time at least they can represent Wales as part of GB.

Rugby League in Wales is not attractive to players at the moment. The opportunity to play in big games for Great Britain makes it more attractive to players both emerging and senior. Wales can still play games at an emerging level with the Serbia's and Italy's same as England Knights. However the elite players from Wales have an opportunity to play for Great Britain. I also see no reason why an Ashes test for GB can't be taken to Millennium Stadium, just like the 2013 WC that attracted 40,000.

 

[Perth Red]

It had the potential to be great, but this is RL and as usual we stuffed it up. Between Kangaroos not wanting to play, Tonga self destructing off the field, lethargic Kiwi fans and a set of GB players that look like they'd rather be on a beach in Mexico and coached by someone who thinks putting an Australian halfback on the wing is a good idea, its been a disaster. GB Lions should only ever be seen for Ashes test match tours.

 

[deluded pom?]

As an Aussie i'm not too fussed if it's GB or England, however you can make a decent argument for Great Britain despite the shambles of a tour.

Often the argument is brought up that it is simply England in a different shirt, however that may not be the case over the next few seasons and imo shouldn't have been this year.

Morgan Knowles and Regan Grace are 23 and 22 with multiple tests for Wales. Knowles almost certainty would have been picked for Great Britain if not for injury and imo Grace should have been. If their career trajectory continues they could easily be in the top 17 for Great Britain as early as next season.

Wales last 4 Home Tests have been played in front of crowds of 1257, 902, 1028 and 1253. There is nothing wrong with that for an emerging nation standard. However for 2 elite players in Regan and Morgan that is poor compared to test matches a Great Britain team would be involved in (both crowds and stature).

On top of that, performance wise Wales is also struggling to match the more elite teams. Again, nothing wrong for an emerging nation, however elite players want to play with other elite players. In 2017 WC, Wales were smashed 50 to 6 against PNG and 72 to 6 against Fiji. You can imagine the kind of score line they would be hit with against the likes of Australia or England.

Fast forward to the end of the season and Australia are about to play an Ashes Series against England. Morgan Knowles can choose between being a part of a sold out Ashes Series or a low key test in front of 2000 at most. Morgan will play for England (as he has every right to do) and Wales will lose him. Regan Grace who is Welsh born has a similar choice, I have no doubt Regan qualifies for England via residency or some type of grandparent. Either Regan plays for Wales in front of 2000 or in a high profile Ashes series. So Wales lose both players to a rival country, or worse they go to Union.

If it's Great Britain they can both play in high profile games without needing to change their country. They can play as Wales in WC or even if it's just Great Britain all the time at least they can represent Wales as part of GB.
Not sure if you are aware but GB have never played a home game outside of England. That speaks volumes to me.
Rugby League in Wales is not attractive to players at the moment. The opportunity to play in big games for Great Britain makes it more attractive to players both emerging and senior. Wales can still play games at an emerging level with the Serbia's and Italy's same as England Knights. However the elite players from Wales have an opportunity to play for Great Britain. I also see no reason why an Ashes test for GB can't be taken to Millennium Stadium, just like the 2013 WC that attracted 40,000.

 

[geordie_saint]

For England - they needed younger players no matter if they won or lost. McGillvary and Hall are most likely done, they could both probably still do the job but Makinson, Johnstone and Handley look better choices. Lomax to me seems like England's best half. Haven't seen young Trueman play yet but is he good enough to be a regular international 7? Widdop has always been average in the halves for England but went quite good at 1. Has Jack Walker come along any good?

Graham will be Graham as long as he plays. Thompson looks good. Stevie Ward and Ben Currie should add a bit. Leeds had a young player Cameron Smith up and coming last I looked, has he gone any good lately?

Plenty of young talent in England; but they need to be gradually phased into the national set up. However, Bennett (and Sinfield) have not got it right on this tour (I appreciate it's not England). There are a few players injured who'd have certainly been in the squad like Makinson, Johnstone, Percival, Knowles et al but the likes of Handley, Grace, Watts etc should have been in the squad from the outset in place of Hall, Hill, Graham et al IMO. We should be building towards the RLWC21 (for Wales as well as England).

However, there are some good kids coming through. You mention Walker at Leeds but I personally think Welsby at Saints will be better. He's done well for the England Academy against the Aussies before and to me has the ability to play at 6 as well as full back, which IMO makes him a better prospect than Walker. Smithies, Partington et al at Wigan look exceptional (especially the former) as well. Less endeared by Cameron Smith at Leeds but that's just my opinion. Trueman is still very young and takes a lot of responsibility on at Castleford but he's clearly got lots of talent but needs to develop the game management to become a top international half back.

The biggest issue for me in this current side though is Josh Hodgson. He's a quality player at Canberra; that's not for discussion. But his style of play hinders the international side. He's a handbrake. His distribution to the halves is too slow; his decision-making does not complement the other players in the side. We look much better when Clarke is on the field. Hodgson needs to go IMO.

 

[Getmefood]

Alex Walker is the Scotland full back; he played for London last year.

sorry thought he meant Toronto players who have played for Scotland.

 

[NRLMad]

As an Aussie i'm not too fussed if it's GB or England, however you can make a decent argument for Great Britain despite the shambles of a tour.

Often the argument is brought up that it is simply England in a different shirt, however that may not be the case over the next few seasons and imo shouldn't have been this year.

Morgan Knowles and Regan Grace are 23 and 22 with multiple tests for Wales. Knowles almost certainty would have been picked for Great Britain if not for injury and imo Grace should have been. If their career trajectory continues they could easily be in the top 17 for Great Britain as early as next season.

Wales last 4 Home Tests have been played in front of crowds of 1257, 902, 1028 and 1253. There is nothing wrong with that for an emerging nation standard. However for 2 elite players in Regan and Morgan that is poor compared to test matches a Great Britain team would be involved in (both crowds and stature).

On top of that, performance wise Wales is also struggling to match the more elite teams. Again, nothing wrong for an emerging nation, however elite players want to play with other elite players. In 2017 WC, Wales were smashed 50 to 6 against PNG and 72 to 6 against Fiji. You can imagine the kind of score line they would be hit with against the likes of Australia or England.

Fast forward to the end of the season and Australia are about to play an Ashes Series against England. Morgan Knowles can choose between being a part of a sold out Ashes Series or a low key test in front of 2000 at most. Morgan will play for England (as he has every right to do) and Wales will lose him. Regan Grace who is Welsh born has a similar choice, I have no doubt Regan qualifies for England via residency or some type of grandparent. Either Regan plays for Wales in front of 2000 or in a high profile Ashes series. So Wales lose both players to a rival country, or worse they go to Union.

If it's Great Britain they can both play in high profile games without needing to change their country. They can play as Wales in WC or even if it's just Great Britain all the time at least they can represent Wales as part of GB.

Rugby League in Wales is not attractive to players at the moment. The opportunity to play in big games for Great Britain makes it more attractive to players both emerging and senior. Wales can still play games at an emerging level with the Serbia's and Italy's same as England Knights. However the elite players from Wales have an opportunity to play for Great Britain. I also see no reason why an Ashes test for GB can't be taken to Millennium Stadium, just like the 2013 WC that attracted 40,000.

Tier 1 England rest Tier 2 so they should be able to switch and switch back around next year

 

[Burns]

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