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Rumoured and Confirmed signings - Part 4

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TheFrog

Coach
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14,300
Hook had to be sacked because he pissed the board off with his attitude in Brisbane after they destroyed us. They wanted answers from him and decided to wait in the dressing rooms for him. They were shocked to find him in the dressing rooms not watching the end of the game. They couldnt believe it and that was the moment they decided to sack him.
A motivational ploy that has been done many times by many coaches. Boards don't come after coaches at full time after a defeat anyway. What sort of a f**ked up club does that? And what were the board even doing in Brisbane? On the club's coin and all pissed as newts no doubt.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,006
Only Panthers fans would think the GM of Footy blasting a head coach over the way the team is playing in a trial game...As having a good combination
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Only Panthers fans would think the GM of Footy blasting a head coach over the way the team is playing in a trial game...As having a good combination
Results are what matters and 3/3 finals appearances and 3/6 finals wins shits on Ivan missing the finals either side of that.

That's a better combination than Ivan and O'Neil at 0%... and also better than Ivan and Gus at 25%. What's unbelievable is you thought Ivan was a dud 5+ years ago when his record was a hell of a lot better than it is today.

1 finals appearance in the past 7 seasons as head coach (back in 2014 when you still called him a dud).. yet now you're on his banwagon? It's insane.
 

Fangs

Coach
Messages
11,223
A motivational ploy that has been done many times by many coaches. Boards don't come after coaches at full time after a defeat anyway. What sort of a f**ked up club does that? And what were the board even doing in Brisbane? On the club's coin and all pissed as newts no doubt.

Yes and no him hitting the sheds early. Could easily be viewed as a white towel moment. Gus got the same criticism when he walked out out Origin 2. Can't remember the year maybe 2003.

Re board. I agree 99% of the time. However Hook was the leader of our expedition to Brisbane and it resulted in one of the most embarrassing losses I can recall as a fan. Right up there with tigers magic round this year and conceeding 70 against the Raiders under Elliott. So I could understand why they would be pissed off and wanting to see his response.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
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33,546
.

Results are what matters and 3/3 finals appearances and 3/6 finals wins shits on Ivan missing the finals either side of that.

That's a better combination than Ivan and O'Neil at 0%... and also better than Ivan and Gus at 25%. What's unbelievable is you thought Ivan was a dud 5+ years ago when his record was a hell of a lot better than it is today.

1 finals appearance in the past 7 seasons as head coach (back in 2014 when you still called him a dud).. yet now you're on his banwagon? It's insane.

Hardly on the Ivan bandwagon from my post the page back..

Still don’t think we can win it with Ivan as coach but better set up for success this way

You were one of many that thought we under performed under hook...Yet changes happen and it is wrong?
 

franklin2323

Immortal
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33,546
Yes and no him hitting the sheds early. Could easily be viewed as a white towel moment. Gus got the same criticism when he walked out out Origin 2. Can't remember the year maybe 2003.

Re board. I agree 99% of the time. However Hook was the leader of our expedition to Brisbane and it resulted in one of the most embarrassing losses I can recall as a fan. Right up there with tigers magic round this year and conceeding 70 against the Raiders under Elliott. So I could understand why they would be pissed off and wanting to see his response.

I doubt it was the only questionable thing Hook did in his time. Plenty of rumours of arguments with Gus and other staff. The Moylan break down for whatever reason.. So after re-signing him why that?
 

Fangs

Coach
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11,223
I doubt it was the only questionable thing Hook did in his time. Plenty of rumours of arguments with Gus and other staff. The Moylan break down for whatever reason.. So after re-signing him why that?

He left on bad terms, not just with the players either. His interviews after his sacking made it far worse for him as well.

His re-signing was ridiculous. Probably a Des contract designed to stop speculation. It did the opposite, every second week there was a rumour he would be sacked.
 

BxTom

Bench
Messages
2,566
This from a coach who had increasingly distanced himself from his boss and colleagues while having a very small group of players he actually got along with and a very large group that didn't like him.
The truth is none of us know how he got on with the players. Using this to try and strengthen your argument shows desperation and only serves to undermine your argument.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
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33,546
He left on bad terms, not just with the players either. His interviews after his sacking made it far worse for him as well.

His re-signing was ridiculous. Probably a Des contract designed to stop speculation. It did the opposite, every second week there was a rumour he would be sacked.

That was probably it and only cost the club a cool $1m or something

A few freakish plays during games probably papered over the cracks and made us look better then we were.

More then just the coach or Gus or the players were too blame.. All 3 have been changed and lets see if it improved
 

mxlegend99

Referee
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23,006
Hardly on the Ivan bandwagon from my post the page back..

Still don’t think we can win it with Ivan as coach but better set up for success this way

You were one of many that thought we under performed under hook...Yet changes happen and it is wrong?
I thought we underperformed with Hook. We change things up and results get worse. Ofcourse I think that's wrong.

Anything less than matching his results was not good enough and we should have been expecting to improve on them.

I was happy to stand by Ivan early on buying into the different excuses for his results. But after ending our finals streak in his first season back... a streak that started immediately when he left I am judging him purely on results now.

In the past 5 years we made 3/3 finals series without him and missed 2/2 with him. He has missed 4 finals series in a row and I have very litte faith he cam take such a weak roster to the finals in 2020.

His last finals appearance had 3 players in the spine all with more individual brilliance and x-factor than our spine now combined.

I can see Nathan improving as the main playmaker. But I expect a lot of inconsistency and teething issues with our 2x rookie 6s while neither Edwards or Koroisau are known for ball playing. Our team is riding on the shoulders of a player many here bag out for having no vision or playmaking ability, and counting on a rookie halves partner to step up with him. I know after a great game from each they were rated as future immortals by some on here. But that form is unrealistic to maintain as we saw with Luai in most games since.

Our average backline sure wont help these guys create points either.

I hope at the end of 2020 this post can be dug up and I can be laughed at as we hold up the trophy on grand final day. But for the first time in 6+ years I dont think we have a top 8 squad (letalone the top 4 squad i usually rate us as). By that I mean i think there are more than 8 sides i rate as better on paper than ours. Although to be fair I was always optimistic Whare and Mansour were a pre-season away from returning to peak form. 2019 finally convinced me it's not possible. Age and ACL injuries are just too hard to overcome. Those guys at their peak would pit us in the top 8 for sure. They were largely why I saw a top 4 squad the past few seasons. But after burning me 3 years in a row. I rate them for what they have delivered lately and not what they were capable of.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
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I thought we underperformed with Hook. We change things up and results get worse. Ofcourse I think that's wrong.

Anything less than matching his results was not good enough and we should have been expecting to improve on them.

I was happy to stand by Ivan early on buying into the different excuses for his results. But after ending our finals streak in his first season back... a streak that started immediately when he left I am judging him purely on results now.

In the past 5 years we made 3/3 finals series without him and missed 2/2 with him. He has missed 4 finals series in a row and I have very litte faith he cam take such a weak roster to the finals in 2020.

His last finals appearance had 3 players in the spine all with more individual brilliance and x-factor than our spine now combined.

I can see Nathan improving as the main playmaker. But I expect a lot of inconsistency and teething issues with our 2x rookie 6s while neither Edwards or Koroisau are known for ball playing. Our team is riding on the shoulders of a player many here bag out for having no vision or playmaking ability, and counting on a rookie halves partner to step up with him. I know after a great game from each they were rated as future immortals by some on here. But that form is unrealistic to maintain as we saw with Luai in most games since.

Our average backline sure wont help these guys create points either.

I hope at the end of 2020 this post can be dug up and I can be laughed at as we hold up the trophy on grand final day. But for the first time in 6+ years I dont think we have a top 8 squad (letalone the top 4 squad i usually rate us as). By that I mean i think there are more than 8 sides i rate as better on paper than ours. Although to be fair I was always optimistic Whare and Mansour were a pre-season away from returning to peak form. 2019 finally convinced me it's not possible. Age and ACL injuries are just too hard to overcome. Those guys at their peak would pit us in the top 8 for sure. They were largely why I saw a top 4 squad the past few seasons. But after burning me 3 years in a row. I rate them for what they have delivered lately and not what they were capable of.

Not even had a season with no Gus to judge yet though. Jed was re-signed by Gus alone. The sex tape was under the old management.

compare us to other sides though.

Our squad is stronger than Broncos,

Tigers who finished in front of us look like having this backline:

Thompson
Nofoluma
Momoirovski
Talau
Jennings

Storm are going through things need a few guys to get a backline

Parra look to of overpaid on a few guys so less depth

Souffs lost 3-4 forwards. Are rumoured to be shopping another few out.

Sharks weaker then last year
Canberra no Rapana. Pom untired halfback

So while we have a few holes in the backs. Overall we look pretty secure and on the way up. No reason we can’t sneak into the 8... higher if Naden and co develop quicker
 

mxlegend99

Referee
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23,006
The truth is none of us know how he got on with the players. Using this to try and strengthen your argument shows desperation and only serves to undermine your argument.
We know that a lot of players come out with negative comments toward him from both Broncos and Panthers. It's public knowledge.

It's very rare players want to make negative comments toward former coaches too. Outside of the few that like to campaign to get coaches sacked ofcourse.

Ie. If Farah said something it doesn't hold much weight.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,006
Not even had a season with no Gus to judge yet though. Jed was re-signed by Gus alone. The sex tape was under the old management.
The sex tape was the result of players and not management at all. Gus would have sacked May IMO... Ivan wants to keep him though. But it will be the boards decision and I say we sack him if NRL dont.

Gus had no power to re-sign Jed and seemingly his attempt to do so didnt count he effectively had no input on 2019 other than being thrown under the boss to cop all the flack and takeaway any responsibility from Ivan and Dave. Jed was off contract still after Gus tried signing him. That showed how little influence he had once Ivan returned


compare us to other sides though.

Our squad is stronger than Broncos,
Disagree. They have better wingers. Better forward pack. 1 better centre than either of ours... and Boyd who is a joke. Id take a busted Whare or Naden over a heartless gutless player. Finally a proper half to partner Milford rather than 2x 6s. Its not much better.... and probably not in the top 8 teams still. But its definitely not worse than ours. Like ours though they seem to have no idea how to fix it to reach its potential. Gus wanted to turn us into Broncos..instead they turned themselves into usm

Tigers who finished in front of us look like having this backline:

Thompson
Nofoluma
Momoirovski
Talau
Jennings
That's pretty trash... but they're stuck with the scraps Ivan left them. But got lucky for a medical retirement to Matulino to potentially fix them. They are 9th place certainties just about though.

Storm are going through things need a few guys to get a backline
1. Paps > Edwards
2. Vunivalu > Mansour
3. Olam IMO shits on the Whare of today... but i rate himas (Olam forced his way ahead of Scott and Chambers in 2019)
4. Seve and Naden could be debateable... but Seve had agreat run in 2019 for Storm and incredible form for Samoa and seems a better centre fit to me. But a Naden on the wing IMO could be a freak.
5. JAC > To'o
6. Munster > Luai / Burton
7. Cleary beats Hughes... but even then if Cleary doesn't step up Hughes could potentially put on more try assists than him.

I rate Bellamy to get the best out of them all. Vunivalu wasnt even in his plans before getting an unlikely debut and being a try scoring beasts. I rate Scott as better than both of thei centres, but both had leapt past Chambers by seasons end. Chambers was Storms Whare though.


Parra look to of overpaid on a few guys so less depth
Their roster for 2020 has improved on 2019 though. You rated them as spooners last year for some reason. Although with Arthur they could very well underachieve. Their roster is pretty incredible.

Souffs lost 3-4 forwards. Are rumoured to be shopping another few out.
They're also rumoured to be adding Jai Arrow and Lattrell Mitchell... along with Walker, Reynolds, Cook, Murray, Roberts etc. They are making a mockery of the cap with the retirements of Inglis and Burgess.

Sharks weaker then last year
Canberra no Rapana. Pom untired halfback
Sharks still for now have 3x better centres than us between Morris, Xerri and Ramien. Duges. Moylan. Johnson. Townsend. Graham. Nikora. Its a good roster still. But i think they have a terrible coach.

Raiders lose Rapana... but still have Simonsson, Cotric, Croker, Leilua and Scott fighting for 4 spots.


So while we have a few holes in the backs. Overall we look pretty secure and on the way up. No reason we can’t sneak into the 8... higher if Naden and co develop quicker
Honestly outside of Tigers I think all these squads win over ours clearly. Tigers squad sucks. But they can potentially beat ours with the cap space they walked into... if they can get anyone to join. Realistically though they aren't desirable and will have an imferior squad that finishes 9th.
 

BossleyPanther

Juniors
Messages
2,119
Aside from the Roosters. The rest of the comp is open for the rest of the top 8.

We have a better squad now then we had when we were 2 and 8.

This starting pack will stand up against most in the comp

Tamou
Api
JFH
Kikau
Martin
Yeo

We now have the option to put a Kiwi test player and a fringe Origin player from very successful clubs on the bench. Which allows guys like Blore, Jed and Hetherington find form in NSW Cup after disrupted seasons.

Got the NSW half - Should continue to develop
To'o could be anything
Edwards is off contract so you'd expect he would want to perform
Crichton tasted FG. Played SOO u'20's...Having a pre season would help him. As Naden

I'd rate our roster over Brisbane, Souths have no forwards. Sharks are still getting cap right. WT are weaker. Question marks on what the Storm roster will look like

So no reason we can't atleast finish 6-8 and that is a good result given how the roster stands
I agree with you accept that Souths will get someone/s in to replace Burgess
 

BxTom

Bench
Messages
2,566
We know that a lot of players come out with negative comments toward him from both Broncos and Panthers. It's public knowledge.

It's very rare players want to make negative comments toward former coaches too. Outside of the few that like to campaign to get coaches sacked ofcourse.

Ie. If Farah said something it doesn't hold much weight.
No, not "we", you. name all of these players... And don't say Segs - he was sacked, of course he's pIssed off with Hook.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Honestly outside of Tigers I think all these squads win over ours clearly. Tigers squad sucks. But they can potentially beat ours with the cap space they walked into... if they can get anyone to join. Realistically though they aren't desirable and will have an imferior squad that finishes 9th.

If so then we just use the cap space to improve the squad for 2021. If we struggle then Edwards out. Tamou on less. Should have enough for a quality player
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,006
Maybe not for 2020 though.

Most teams are in that changeover period with old guys out new guys in. Those that come on quicker the better
Reports have Jai Arrow to Souths. That Storm rookie to Titans as his replacement.

Mitchell supposedly to Souths by new years. Burgess money has got them 2x better players IMO. If those signibgs happen.
If so then we just use the cap space to improve the squad for 2021. If we struggle then Edwards out. Tamou on less. Should have enough for a quality player
If we make decent signings I will re-evaluate my opinion of our roster accordingly. But a 2021 signing doesn't help us for next season. Are we happy to write off another season? At the end of 2018 we had made 4 of our last 5 Finals series.

If we miss out on 2020 we have missed 3 of our last 6... with all 3 being under Ivan and our 3 successes being under Hook. We then have 3 more years under Ivan.

If we cracked the top 8 though it atleast goes a short way to fixing our direction.
 

Kilkenny

Coach
Messages
13,148
If it was the intention of Pomoz to kick start this thread a few pages back with what I though was a pretty intelligent well crafted post it certainly had the desired effect.

On a serious note, rightly or wrongly, depending on whose camp your in the Gus Gould era is over and we probably all need to move on.

Time will tell if the new brains trust can deliver decent results on the field and get us into the top eight on a regular basis. Didn't start at all well in 2019 but heh 2020 is a new season and we should all be full of optimism and looking forward to our season opener on March 14.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,006
If it was the intention of Pomoz to kick start this thread a few pages back with what I though was a pretty intelligent well crafted post it certainly had the desired effect.

On a serious note, rightly or wrongly, depending on whose camp your in the Gus Gould era is over and we probably all need to move on.

Time will tell if the new brains trust can deliver decent results on the field and get us into the top eight on a regular basis. Didn't start at all well in 2019 but heh 2020 is a new season and we should all be full of optimism and looking forward to our season opener on March 14.
It sucked having no new posts in here. Disagreements generating discussion are atleast l making it active here. The moreof it the better.
 

Kilkenny

Coach
Messages
13,148
It sucked having no new posts in here. Disagreements generating discussion are atleast l making it active here. The moreof it the better.

I’m good with it, it can be fun and were all pretty much resigned to no further signings so have to talk about something.
 
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