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Latrell (officially signs with Souths 13/1/20)

Valheru

Coach
Messages
17,513
Yeah. Limited is how I’d describe Hutcho. Solid player, but you’d be struggling using him as a starting half. More of an old style lock at this stage.

No chance of a late signing? I assume there would still be a little cash left over from Latrell’s departure. Surely $800k hasn’t all been allocated elsewhere.

There would be a bit of money left over but I don't see anyone worthy of signing. The club has shown patience in the past waiting for the right player to come on the market even if it means having an average option for a year or two.

RTS left in 2015 and we didn't sign teddy until 2018.

Maloney leaving in 2015 and Keary coming in 2017 as examples.

So I think they will give Flanagan a shot and if he is not up to it they will go to market in 2021 or 2022.
 
Messages
13,797
How so? Please explain.

If you are going to have a talent cap, you can['t turn around and have a discount for locally produced juniors as that prevents the even distribution of talent by clubs with big junior bases potentially stockpiling talent.

Before you say "well other clubs should invest more in their juniors" it is a bit hard for some clubs, like mine, when their junior league catchment is basically a few suburbs in Sydney's east which has a low density of potential junior players.

Ensuring an equal spread of talent means you do not do things like give discounts for salary caps.
 
Messages
13,797
There would be a bit of money left over but I don't see anyone worthy of signing. The club has shown patience in the past waiting for the right player to come on the market even if it means having an average option for a year or two.

RTS left in 2015 and we didn't sign teddy until 2018.

Maloney leaving in 2015 and Keary coming in 2017 as examples.

So I think they will give Flanagan a shot and if he is not up to it they will go to market in 2021 or 2022.

If Flanagan doesn't work out they'll be looking at Sam Walker. The Roosters didn't sign him to just play Jersey Flegg. He's the one they are looking at, I believe, for the longer term. Just he still very young.

Doueihi told by Souths he's free to look elsewhere - https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/latrel...s-rabbitohs-deal-forces-out-young-star_160120
 

BadnMean

Juniors
Messages
1,122
If you are going to have a talent cap, you can['t turn around and have a discount for locally produced juniors as that prevents the even distribution of talent by clubs with big junior bases potentially stockpiling talent.

Before you say "well other clubs should invest more in their juniors" it is a bit hard for some clubs, like mine, when their junior league catchment is basically a few suburbs in Sydney's east which has a low density of potential junior players.

Ensuring an equal spread of talent means you do not do things like give discounts for salary caps.

Then the league should slo not do things like allow unlimited TPA's & friendly games of golf, as some clubs- especially those clustered around Sydneys CBD & wealthy eastern suburbs might end up with a couple of billionaire board members & their mates who ensure an unequal distribution of talent.
 
Messages
13,797
friendly games of golf, as some clubs- especially those clustered around Sydneys CBD & wealthy eastern suburbs might end up with a couple of billionaire board members & their mates who ensure an unequal distribution of talent.

Oh yes cause you have so much evidence of this occurring :rolleyes:

When you come out of fantasy land, then I might listen to you. Until then, go fish.
 

Valheru

Coach
Messages
17,513
Not necessarily. There is plenty of legal opinion it would survive a legal challenge. The RLPA were advised of this in 2017 when they considered it - https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...l/news-story/75253e98035eebc490b70554b6217068

I can't read the article unfortunately.

The RLPA challenging probably would survive as they are dealing with a what if scenario.

I think it would take an actual club and player to challenge. In a scenario where club A wants to pay player X $10M a season with a MOU ready to go but obviously can't due to the salary cap that is an example of a third party restricting what someone can earn.

I would be surprised if it didn't get overturned in court quite quickly.

As long as the clubs are on board it won't go to court.
 
Messages
15,545
The cap is different... I think everyone realises that the game would go belly up in a few years if the cap was removed. There’s a fair chance it could be successfully challenged in court but what would be the point if the game died a few years later?

Sure, it’s detrimental to the earning capacity of a small number of players in the short term but in the long term it probably benefits those same players while also benefiting every other player in the league as well.

It would take a pretty selfish prick to challenge the cap in court imo.
 

Cactus

Juniors
Messages
677

typicalfan

Coach
Messages
15,430
So much for competition for spots.

3 days ago Mitchell sat next to Bennett at the signing & said something to the effect that where he would be playing wasn’t determined as yet.

Pretty crook outcome for Doueihi. He didn’t even get a pre-season sporting chance to compete for the the #1 jersey
If Douehi stayed he most likely would have played reserve grade or a utility role at best. Realistically the best move for his career could be to get a start elsewhere.
 

Cactus

Juniors
Messages
677
If Douehi stayed he most likely would have played reserve grade or a utility role at best. Realistically the best move for his career could be to get a start elsewhere.

Yeah you are right. It may well turn out to be better for him.

Its just a bit of a rude example though, of player being discarded for a big name. And its this sort of stuff that makes for a more mercenary attitude from players.
 
Messages
15,545
Yeah you are right. It may well turn out to be better for him.

Its just a bit of a rude example though, of player being discarded for a big name. And its this sort of stuff that makes for a more mercenary attitude from players.

He's not being discarded... Quite the opposite. We have a spot for him in our 30 and he has a contract for two more years. Realistically that spot is on the bench. He's not going to start over LM or our two halves and he wants a spine position so Wayne has told him he is best to look at his options elsewhere. He doesn't have to leave, to be perfectly honest, Souths would be hoping he stays as he covers so many positions he is an asset but he would definitely see more game time elsewhere so he needs to do whatever he thinks is best for his career.

He can stay or go, he's not being pushed out. The choice is in his hands.

The shit thing to do would be to hold him to his contract and make him play 14 or reserve grade for the next two years.
 

unforgiven

Bench
Messages
3,138
The cap is different... I think everyone realises that the game would go belly up in a few years if the cap was removed. There’s a fair chance it could be successfully challenged in court but what would be the point if the game died a few years later?

Sure, it’s detrimental to the earning capacity of a small number of players in the short term but in the long term it probably benefits those same players while also benefiting every other player in the league as well.

It would take a pretty selfish prick to challenge the cap in court imo.

Actually your reasoning is the reason why a salary cap would probably survive a court challenge. This is an area I have researched a lot and not all restraints of trade are automatically illegal. There are a number of arguments that can be made that can show that a Salary Cap is a reasonable restraint of trade and is actually beneficial to the players earnings. Creating a more even competition can be argued creates greater revenue which allows the game to pay the players more is one such argument that would likely be made by the lawyers of the NRL.

It is even possible that a draft could survive a court challenge based on similar arguments!
 

Cactus

Juniors
Messages
677
He's not being discarded... Quite the opposite. We have a spot for him in our 30 and he has a contract for two more years. Realistically that spot is on the bench. He's not going to start over LM or our two halves and he wants a spine position so Wayne has told him he is best to look at his options elsewhere. He doesn't have to leave, to be perfectly honest, Souths would be hoping he stays as he covers so many positions he is an asset but he would definitely see more game time elsewhere so he needs to do whatever he thinks is best for his career.

He can stay or go, he's not being pushed out. The choice is in his hands.

The shit thing to do would be to hold him to his contract and make him play 14 or reserve grade for the next two years.

What you say is most certainly the reality of the situation, for sure.

He played the last dozen games in the #1 and now he has been told to look elsewhere as he has been replaced by LM without so much as a trial game.

For mine he is being discarded.
 
Messages
13,797
I can't read the article unfortunately.

The RLPA challenging probably would survive as they are dealing with a what if scenario.

I think it would take an actual club and player to challenge. In a scenario where club A wants to pay player X $10M a season with a MOU ready to go but obviously can't due to the salary cap that is an example of a third party restricting what someone can earn.

I would be surprised if it didn't get overturned in court quite quickly.

As long as the clubs are on board it won't go to court.

I got passed the pay wall via a google search. This is what the article states -

RLPA warned that legal challenge to salary cap likely to fail

  • Brent Read
    Senior Sports Writer
    @brentread_7
    8a2fbfa2e92a609cfd30a16a25de7e5a
  • 1:00AM August 11, 2017
  • No Comments

The players union has been warned that any challenge to the legality of the salary cap is doomed to fail as the focus of talks over the collective bargaining agreement yesterday switched from the courtroom to the negotiating room.

The Australian yesterday revealed that the Rugby League Players Association had written to the NRL late last week warning that they would be prepared to challenge the validity of the cap if the parties were unable to find some middle ground in CBA talks.

It is understood the RLPA and NRL were locked in talks again yesterday and the parties remain optimistic they can strike a deal in time for it to be taken to a meeting of club chairs and chief executives in Sydney next week.


However, the RLPA has significantly raised the stakes in CBA talks by threatening to challenge the legality of the salary cap in court, a move that would have repercussions for every major sport in the country — the AFL and the A-League also operate with salary caps.

They have also warned they are prepared to use players’ intellectual property as leverage, much like the Australian Cricketers Association did by setting up The Cricketers’ Brand when their pay war was in full flight.

There are essential differences between the two sports. While the bulk of cricketers were off contract, the majority of rugby league players have deals in place with their clubs for next season.

However, it is believed the RLPA could look to restrict the use of players’ intellectual property as they attempt to heap pressure on the NRL.

That will hinge largely on whether the parties can strike a deal over the next week.

Talks were held yesterday involving NRL chief executive Todd Greenberg and his RLPA counterpart Ian Prendergast but the threat of court action still looms while ever an agreement remains in limbo.

While the threat of legal action is real, the RLPA’s chances of success in challenging the salary cap would be slim according to former NRL player and sports lawyer Tim Fuller.

“Any legal challenge to the legality and enforceability of the salary cap is unlikely to succeed,” Fuller said.

“Courts have held that the cap is a valid and legitimate use of control in a sport.

“However, the courts have tended to adopt a position with competitive measures (such as caps and drafts) and require such systems to be fair and reasonable.

“By this, that players’ (employees) rights are protected and maintained ... and the balance of bargaining power is not slated overgenerously towards the governing body.

“If the NRL were to be overly unreasonable in the CBA negotiations and attempt to carve out necessary aspects of the CBA, the cap could be theoretically up for challenge along the above guidelines.

“Whilst this is unlikely and cooler heads are likely to prevail, it does emphasis the point that the NRL must be aware of the requirement to negotiate in good faith and work towards reasonable outcomes.”

The most significant pressing gulf between the parties is finances, with the players pursuing a guaranteed share of revenue and an increase in the salary cap beyond the $9.2 million that has been tabled by the NRL for next season.

The union is also opposed to the way the NRL’s proposed salary cap is structured, with both long service and motor vehicle allowances included in the figure of $9.2 million.

The RLPA wants both those amounts excluded from the cap, leaving clubs to use them at their own discretion.

The RLPA is also opposed to NRL plans to include a $400,000 integrity fund as part of each club’s cap, with that amount to be reduced any time a player transgresses off the field.

Meanwhile, Parramatta captain Tim Mannah has admitted his brother Jon will be at the forefront of his mind as he prepares to make his 200th first grade appearance for the Eels.

Jon Mannah, who also played first grade rugby league for Cronulla and the Eels, passed away four years ago after suffering Hodgkin’s lymphoma at the age of 23.

“I think about that all the time,” Tim Mannah said.

“He is a big part of my life. He takes up a lot of my thoughts. I like to think about him.

“Whenever you have a big milestone or big occasion in life you definitely think about him and what it would be like if he was here.

“I am sure he would be proud as well. The big moments in life you wish he was there. This is a big occasion to me in terms of my career and it would be nice to have him here.”

I very much doubt any club is going to want to challenge the salary cap as it ensures they have one of their major costs at a "fixed" point.
 
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