Rumoured and Confirmed signings - Part 4

[Wily Ole Dog]

Gold coast, Brisbane, Nth Qld, and Newcastle,
Why is storm there, and in the finals the best teams who make the top8 play each other, no reason cowboys vs broncos wouldn't happen.
You forget state of origin is geographical, as well as international matches, they get pooled a certain way. Top8 might get sorted out by points like they do currently, and top 2 winners get to week off after round1 of finals.
Either way gold coast might make it if knights and cowboys have an off year

Im with you on this. The conference system needs to be a priority.
Still undecided about the split

 

[betcats]

Yep. the clubs give you a magnate and a cap

I wish they would give me a magnate....

 

[MugaB]

So you would give Knights a 2 hour bus and then a flight every 2nd week? makes sense

Its the next closest club, plus if there is more expansion teams in brisbane, Newcastle would move to the Eastern conference, and push cronulla to the southern conference etc.
Besides all teams play each other anyways, its only the 2nd run of games within your conference, you make it sound like theyll only ever play in a Qcup comp only. Think of it as the world cup soccer as the pools, top2 progress thru

 

[Coastal]

We need a second division with promotion/relegation. If they want to build interest in the lower grades, it's the way to go. Interest in the lower grades will be heightened as there would be something more to play for than just a trophy at the end of the year. Bring the number of teams in the NRL down so that each team plays every other team both home and away instead of this archaic luck of the draw system.

If EPL can do it with 20 odd teams, why can't we do it with say about 12 - 14 teams?

Too right there Bx, go back to the good old days of for eg, Penrith V Parramatta in all three grades on the one day all playing at the same venue. Fans going for the 1st game generally would stay for all the other games, boosting crowd numbers. Get rid of all the out of town Canterbury cup teams, all clubs to ensure they have the three grades playing in THEIR colours week in week out.

 

[Coastal]

At the end of the day when I sit in my season ticket seats on the half way line in the western stand (best seats in the stadium) the best afternoons/evenings are those when it is close to a full house playing another Sydney based club. They either bring there fan base to the game or have ready made supporters who live in or around Penrith. A 17,000 or more home crowd with thousands of other team supporters is so much more beneficial than a 10,000 home crowd against the Titans or Cowboys. The benefits of a conference system are irrefutable and should at the very least be considered but at the end of the day as I have said previously the stumbling block is the the Broncos who the. NRL earn there most dollars from,

Your last reference is exactly why your model would never work. Broncos playing their first 16 games against teams who cant really pull crowds, except for the Storm and Cowboys. I rarely watch any Broncos games against anyone except the Sydney teams. That would be a complete fail with any television deal I would imagine. The 4 conference set up would probably work better except for the "east conference" no crowd pulling games there either.

 

[Pomoz]

The suggestions for a conference system are interesting. My question is, what problem is the conference system trying to solve? Crowds, unfair system, travel costs? What exactly is it trying to achieve? Imperfect though the current system is, you need to at least understand what you are trying to achieve before you build a different solution.

 

[betcats]

The suggestions for a conference system are interesting. My question is, what problem is the conference system trying to solve? Crowds, unfair system, travel costs? What exactly is it trying to achieve? Imperfect though the current system is, you need to at least understand what you are trying to achieve before you build a different solution.

Yeah I’m not sure what the motivation to break the comp up is, it’s not big enough half the teams are in the same city.

 

[franklin2323]

The suggestions for a conference system are interesting. My question is, what problem is the conference system trying to solve? Crowds, unfair system, travel costs? What exactly is it trying to achieve? Imperfect though the current system is, you need to at least understand what you are trying to achieve before you build a different solution.

I see no issue with the comp. it is one of the few in the world that almost everyone has a chance to play finals

 

[Kilkenny]

The suggestions for a conference system are interesting. My question is, what problem is the conference system trying to solve? Crowds, unfair system, travel costs? What exactly is it trying to achieve? Imperfect though the current system is, you need to at least understand what you are trying to achieve before you build a different solution.

The two conference system has been looked at by the games governing body and has it's supporters including I think Phil Gould. I think it was first looked into as a mean's to accomodate expansion clubs and maintain the current number of sydney based clubs none of whom want to amalgamate or relocate or fold altogether.. From memory I think I read a piece on the subject previously where the Sydney based clubs would benefit significantly from increased revenue streams outside of the annual grant from the NRL. It is not difficult to see significant increase in home crowds and the revenue that comes with it as our club are guaranteed home games against all other sydney based clubs and it is those clubs that we have our biggest attendances. While the two conferences play home and away against teams in there own conference and games against teams from the other conference and inter posed within the draw which simply means we have four home and four away games against the other conference sides and they can occur at any time during the regular season. i'm sure the concept may be looked into again if and when two new clubs are introduced.

 

[MugaB]

The suggestions for a conference system are interesting. My question is, what problem is the conference system trying to solve? Crowds, unfair system, travel costs? What exactly is it trying to achieve? Imperfect though the current system is, you need to at least understand what you are trying to achieve before you build a different solution.

There's a problem regarding dead rubbers too, when getting close the end of the season, where crowds and genera interest drop off, a 4 way conference system might increase interest due to whoever might sneak into the final per conference, not just the whole ladder as it stands now.
Plus conferences give a border or outline to specify who plays who in the general season

 

[Kilkenny]

I see no issue with the comp. it is one of the few in the world that almost everyone has a chance to play finals

It is about sustainability in the long term. Almost all clubs losing significant amounts of money each season and there is a belief a conference systems would generate more revenue for the clubs and there fore I guess increase there chances of survival long term.

 

[franklin2323]

It is about sustainability in the long term. Almost all clubs losing significant amounts of money each season and there is a belief a conference systems would generate more revenue for the clubs and there fore I guess increase there chances of survival long term.

That is on the clubs. Game day entertainment across the board is pretty poor grouped with prices rising coupled with Thurs and Fri night games

 

[Kilkenny]

That is on the clubs. Game day entertainment across the board is pretty poor grouped with prices rising coupled with Thurs and Fri night games

I think you’ll find it’s about getting bums on seats. I read somewhere our average home attendances exceed 16000 against other Sydney based clubs and 11000 against the non Sydney based clubs. Those are significant numbers and when you take into account the current system where there have been seasons where we haven’t had home game against the Sydney sides which bring in the big numbers that is a lot of revenue lost. It’s about maximising revenue otherwise down the track sides may go under as the NRL have stayed no more bail outs. I’m not advocating one way or the other but there needs to discussion on this issue in the long term.

 

[franklin2323]

I think you’ll find it’s about getting bums on seats. I read somewhere our average home attendances exceed 16000 against other Sydney based clubs and 11000 against the non Sydney based clubs. Those are significant numbers and when you take into account the current system where there have been seasons where we haven’t had home game against the Sydney sides which bring in the big numbers that is a lot of revenue lost. It’s about maximising revenue otherwise down the track sides may go under as the NRL have stayed no more bail outs. I’m not advocating one way or the other but there needs to discussion on this issue in the long term.

I think 1st step is scheduling

 

[Kilkenny]

I think 1st step is scheduling

I’m not pushing it I’m simply saying people need to have an open mind on this issue because it’s something that needs to be considered going forward. While ever we a competition which doesn’t allow for all sides playing each other home and away it is imperfect. The conference system is far from perfect but some astute minds have put it forward for discussion given the financial situation most clubs other than the one of two or are capable of turning a profit find themselves.

 

[franklin2323]

I’m not pushing it I’m simply saying people need to have an open mind on this issue because it’s something that needs to be considered going forward. While ever we a competition which doesn’t allow for all sides playing each other home and away it is imperfect. The conference system is far from perfect but some astute minds have put it forward for discussion given the financial situation most clubs other than the one of two or are capable of turning a profit find themselves.

I get that but as a club we said Sat night is best and requested as such. Had zero last year that hurts crowds and the bottom line.

 

[Pomoz]

It is about sustainability in the long term. Almost all clubs losing significant amounts of money each season and there is a belief a conference systems would generate more revenue for the clubs and there fore I guess increase there chances of survival long term.

If sustainability is the problem to be solved, then essentially we are asking how can we generate more profit for the NRL? The corollary being how do we generate more revenue and reduce costs?

To answer both sides of this question, you need detailed market analysis to see where revenue is generated. I'm guessing ticket sales and associated sales at stadiums (food, drink etc), merchandise sales, sponsorships and pay per view sales through all channels (digital, TV, cabe etc). And also detailed P&L's showing the costs of running the NRL across the board.

In my experience, no business ever saved its way to greatness, so I would focus on the revenue side of this question. Without the detailed market information, it is hard to answer what is the right strategy, but some questions can be posed:

• If you accept that fairness is important to maintain interest in the NRL, I would ask the question what is the ideal size and structure to ensure that the integrity of the competition is maintained? This is the local conference system's biggest issue. I would have thought 20 teams each team playing every team twice would be perfect.
• Should we have an equivalent of the challenge cup to bolster the numbers of games played if we move to 20 teams? Even if we don't move to 20 teams, would a challenge cup generate more profit?
• How does expansion into the other large cities like Perth and Adelaide increase the sponsor dollars and pay per view ratings? What increase in profit to the NRL will that bring?
• How much extra profit does a conference creating more local derbies (as suggested by MugaB) generate and how much travel cost is saved?
• How much extra profit would a second Brisbane team and a central coast team generate, after allowing for extra travel costs for other teams?
• Which idea, or combination of ideas generate the most profit? Maybe add teams and have a conference system, or add teams and a challenge cup, or simply stay as we are if none of the strategies increase profit.
• Is it even feasible to have NRL presence in WA or SA? I suspect there are many NSW/Qld expats who would like a team so they can watch live games. Demographic data will help answer this and a market survey to gauge interest can help define the scale of the opportunity. I suspect some of the franchises hoping to get in the NRL have done this work already but it needs to be done in all of the expansion areas.

All of these strategies have to be considered with the long term best interest of the game at its core. Adding teams in Perth and Adelaide may cost money initially, but if they work diligently at building a following in SA and WA, the NRL will attract much more sponsorship and viewer ratings than in its current limited geographical footprint. What about the impact on attracting youngsters to the NRL? How do we get kids in WA playing NRL? Focus on the core, or expand to new horizons? The conference system is just one of many possibilities the NRL should consider.

 

[Kilkenny]

A lot of good points there. The current system is flawed, the conference system is flawed and until we have a system where each team plays everyone else home and away there will be no perfect system. Something has to give because only the Broncos make a profit from football operations and on that basis alone we need fo find a way or system to make all other clubs more profitable or at the very least increase there revenue streams.

 

[Pomoz]

....Something has to give because only the Broncos make a profit from football operations and on that basis alone we need fo find a way or system to make all other clubs more profitable or at the very least increase there revenue streams.

I don't see it quite the same way. It is perfectly valid to make money from a leagues club, retirement village or whatever the case may be, if it is part of the football group. If the Sharks become profitable on the back of their new golf course (???), good on them, its all part of the group. It is unrealistic to think gate receipts, sponsorship dollars and merchandising is enough for 16 clubs especially when there are 8 teams in the Sydney region chasing the same dollar. Not every club can find a wealthy benefactor like Nick Politis.

The NRL market is so small under its current geographical footprint, football operations have to be subsidised to enable them to survive. The grant given by the leagues club to the Panthers is exactly what it was created for. There would be no leagues club without the team. It was created to further the interests of the football team, not to become the largest entertainment group in Australia.

Don't get me wrong, the group has to be able to survive and grow in its own right or it won't be able to support the team going forward. It requires a subtle balancing act to make sure enough investment goes into the football team so it can be competitive and into the business so it can prosper and hopefully provide moire support for the team going forward. Get the balance wrong and one of the two will suffer.

Having said all that, I think your point that the football operations should be a profitable as much as possible is bang on. That means chasing gate receipts, merchandising, sponsors and so on and keeping costs under control.

 

[MugaB]

A lot of good points there. The current system is flawed, the conference system is flawed and until we have a system where each team plays everyone else home and away there will be no perfect system. Something has to give because only the Broncos make a profit from football operations and on that basis alone we need fo find a way or system to make all other clubs more profitable or at the very least increase there revenue streams.

Only your "2 conference" system is flawed, coz your never figured out the logistics, all you did is quote the ramblings of gus gould,
The 4 way system works on logistics, and focuses only on certain teams travelling to far away regional areas every year, whilst most of the competition only has to travel to that same location once every two years