Jack DeBelin

[SnowDragon]

So basically, if delayed to August, we have the same BS as last year... we can’t replace him because we don’t know if he will be back?

ignoring the actual case etc. The unbalancing effect of the club is ridiculous. Surely they must come up with a better compensation package for teams effected to at least mitigate most of the negatives of the situation.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

Unless they are waiting for a witness or something contingent, one of the delay factors seems to be a court system stretched to the limit.

Simply not enough resources to cater for the matters they have.

The alternative is some kind of incursion or modification of the laws to shorten or dispense with these pre-trial arguments etc.

But once you start meddling in this, someone might be disadvantaged, have a legal point not properly considered.

I suppose His Honour could have said he didn’t want to consider it, but then that could have been appealed.

instead, the good and meritorious judge, without fear or favour, he wants a fair process.
He’s going to get paid big money and looked after no matter what.

Playing nrl again doesn’t rate against many years incarcerated in a gaol. As I understand the allegations, if convicted. I can’t see any alternative to full time custody. The last thing he should worry about is football. That’s at the end of the priorities. Shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same breath.

He could be innocent, I don’t know.

 

[BLM01]

So basically, if delayed to August, we have the same BS as last year... we can’t replace him because we don’t know if he will be back?

ignoring the actual case etc. The unbalancing effect of the club is ridiculous. Surely they must come up with a better compensation package for teams effected to at least mitigate most of the negatives of the situation.

They have but the Dragons have not chose to use it or cant afford it. As of Nov 1 2019 they could of gone to the NRL and say we want a JDB 550K salary full years cap relief exemption to buy another player of his worth as due to the unknown (courtcase) we wont be playing him next year and standing him down from playing NRL.
They could do it now but only will get his salary less what they have already paid out. But thus far the club has not ruled him out to play in their Top 30 for 2020..until they do they cant apply for salary cap relief.
If they find out next week it is August then go to NRL and at least get about a 2/3rds of his salary redemption. 550 x .66 = say 350K from March 1.
Having said all that our club pays JDB for the year but have to find the money to afford buying another player with whatever salary we get an exemption for.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

They have but the Dragons have not chose to use it or cant afford it. As of Nov 1 2019 they could of gone to the NRL and say we want a JDB 550K salary full years cap relief exemption to buy another player of his worth as due to the unknown (courtcase) we wont be playing him next year and standing him down from playing NRL.
They could do it now but only will get his salary less what they have already paid out. But thus far the club has not ruled him out to play in their Top 30 for 2020..until they do they cant apply for salary cap relief.
If they find out next week it is August then go to NRL and at least get about a 2/3rds of his salary redemption. 550 x .66 = say 350K from March 1.
Having said all that our club pays JDB for the year but have to find the money to afford buying another player with whatever salary we get an exemption for.

This is a good post.

I’m afraid that if it’s August, it may be in the best interests of the club to let him go for the year.

 

[JamesRustle]

De Belin facing more time on sidelines as trial may be delayed until August
Angus Thompson and Sam Phillips
February 7, 2020 — 9.01pm

Banned NRL player Jack de Belin's rape trial may now be delayed until August, dashing the St George Illawarra Dragons forward's prospects of finalising the matter before the 2020 season begins.

De Belin and Shellharbour Sharks player Callan Sinclair were due to begin a two-week trial on February 3 over allegations the pair sexually assaulted a 19-year-old woman in a Wollongong apartment in December 2018.

Jack de Belin (left) leaves Wollongong Court during a break in his case this week.CREDIT:KATE GERAGHTY

Both men, who are on conditional bail, have pleaded not guilty to five charges of aggravated sexual assault.

A jury was set to be empanelled on Monday before Wollongong District Court judge Andrew Haesler pushed back the start of the trial to hear a series of complex and sensitive legal arguments, requiring the courtroom to be closed to the public over multiple days.


On the fourth day of pre-trial proceedings, the nature of which cannot be legally disclosed, Judge Haesler said, "unless something extraordinary happens we are not going to be running the trial next week."

He said the next available date for the trial wasn't until August.

The date of the trial had previously been brought forward from March 2, with acting judge Paul Conlon saying in September it was important to have the trial begin as early as possible for all parties concerned.

Judge Haesler repeated the sentiment this week.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...-be-delayed-until-august-20200207-p53ypn.html

On the bright side, he'll be back in time for finals should he be found not guilty.

 

[JamesRustle]

Meh, at least he's in the community.

There's a lot of innocent blokes in custody awaiting trials...

Are these blokes you are acting for?

 

[giboz71]

If he's found guilty in August, we've effectively paid close to a million dollars to a criminal to sit on the sidelines for 2 years.

And if he's innocent, his current contract expires and he'll likely sign for another club to get a fresh start.

It's a shit sandwich all round.

 

[BLM01]

This is a good post.

I’m afraid that if it’s August, it may be in the best interests of the club to let him go for the year.

I said that late last year when his court case was scheduled for March. Like Sydney trains can't be reliant on the court system being on time and going to planned time schedule
Tough decision but he still gets paid in 2020 until closure of the case. Least the club can spend and utilise all funds and personnel

 

[True_Believer]

If he's found guilty in August, we've effectively paid close to a million dollars to a criminal to sit on the sidelines for 2 years.

And if he's innocent, his current contract expires and he'll likely sign for another club to get a fresh start.

It's a shit sandwich all round.

Yep it's a no win situation.

Additionally, if it is delayed to August and we decide to let him go, what options have we got?

Is there a restriction on the position we can recruit in? And even if there isn't, who of any sort of value is available for this year? Unless he is found not guilty in the next couple of weeks, we're screwed another quality player for another year.

 

[WoyD4LWoy]

There is 2 different legal teams defending JDB and co accused, if JDB was guilty of most serious charges, one would think co accused legal team would act in their clients best interest and either advise him to take plea deal on a lesser charge. Maybe this could be part of legal arguments

 

[WoyD4LWoy]

There is 2 different legal teams defending JDB and co accused, if JDB was guilty of most serious charges, one would think co accused legal team would act in their clients best interest and advise him to take plea deal on a lesser charge. Maybe this could be part of legal arguments

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

I said that late last year when his court case was scheduled for March. Like Sydney trains can't be reliant on the court system being on time and going to planned time schedule
Tough decision but he still gets paid in 2020 until closure of the case. Least the club can spend and utilise all funds and personnel

Yeah, I was just thinking as to the costs of this sort of thing to third parties.

Whilst he remains innocent, I suppose the real mischief is the no fault stand down policy.

Hes out and about and so far as we know, not a danger to anyone under bail conditions, so the real penalty is dished out to you guys, the club and related stakeholders.

In essence because the NRL sees him playing as a threat to the reputation of the game.

I very much doubt the nrl stand down process will hold a candle to the real deal of the court process.

I’m not blaming him because I don’t know if he did those things as alleged.

I understand why apparently he won’t talk to the nrl hierarchy. Won’t even be seen in the same room with them apparently.

All the nrl had to do was say it’s in the hands of the court and there was nothing they could do.

 

[Old Timer]

There is 2 different legal teams defending JDB and co accused, if JDB was guilty of most serious charges, one would think co accused legal team would act in their clients best interest and either advise him to take plea deal on a lesser charge. Maybe this could be part of legal arguments

They both pled "not guilty" to all charges and obviously neither was interested in a plea deal as discounts on sentencing were on the table earlier and to the best of my knowledge are now withdrawn.
So on that basis it nullifies your post.

 

[WoyD4LWoy]

They both pled "not guilty" to all charges and obviously neither was interested in a plea deal as discounts on sentencing were on the table earlier and to the best of my knowledge are now withdrawn.
So on that basis it nullifies your post.

Reason why I said maybe mate!

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

Discounts on sentencing if you plead guilty can be a troublesome concept.

 

[Slippery Morris]

If he's found guilty in August, we've effectively paid close to a million dollars to a criminal to sit on the sidelines for 2 years.

And if he's innocent, his current contract expires and he'll likely sign for another club to get a fresh start.

It's a shit sandwich all round.

So Saints will pay him all this cash to sit out as well as train with the boys and if he gets off your saying JDB will leave for another club to get a fresh start? Do you really think he would do such a thing? Surely he will stay on for life seeing they stuck by him. If they threw him out and cashed in on his salary for another player then sure why wouldn't he leave but I just can't see him leaving if he wins. Saints have really taken a huge hit for this guy so he owes them a huge load of gratitude. I know I would be loyal if in that position and come out innocent. If anything he SHOULD take a pay cut to stay for life.

 

[giboz71]

So Saints will pay him all this cash to sit out as well as train with the boys and if he gets off your saying JDB will leave for another club to get a fresh start? Do you really think he would do such a thing? Surely he will stay on for life seeing they stuck by him. If they threw him out and cashed in on his salary for another player then sure why wouldn't he leave but I just can't see him leaving if he wins. Saints have really taken a huge hit for this guy so he owes them a huge load of gratitude. I know I would be loyal if in that position and come out innocent. If anything he SHOULD take a pay cut to stay for life.

There is no guarantees he will stay on if he is innocent. He's effectively a free agent after this year and will market himself as an Origin backrower. We will need to pay up to keep him.

Yes I agree, he should be indebted to the club for sticking by him, but this won't mean anything when he negotiates his next deal, and there will be plenty of interest from other clubs.

And it might be better off for both parties to move on given what has happened.

 

[Gareth67]

Discounts on sentencing if you plead guilty can be a troublesome concept.

Have thought the same myself . It is as if the individual is being compensated for the plea of guilt .

 

[Old Timer]

Have thought the same myself . It is as if the individual is being compensated for the plea of guilt .

Contrition for your crime by admitting it always received some leniency the other aspect is commercial reality I would suspect.
Cheaper to give a discount (for early plea) than for a trial to run full course and the early release of an inmate is also cheaper and of course when the courts have a backlog the quicker you get out the sooner someone else can get in both at the court and the jail.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

It was controversial when they brought it in, but the government assured everyone that the 25% for an early plea was genuine ie they didn’t add 25% on the head sentence.

It was presented as a true discount and I guess the idea was to discourage people from running to full term.

Having said that, I am sure there are a few people who would cop a few discounts even if the prosecution wasn’t up to scratch to “ get it over with” etc.

Poor people or people who can’t get legal aid etc, might be encouraged to own up to something they haven’t quite done, agree to facts that aren’t true, to avoid the hassle or other reason ( protect a loved one, avoid getting stabbed or whatever). People take the wrap and stay silent sometimes. Do your time and live easy afterwards.

I’ve heard of rather big events when no one can remember anything. Like scores of people “ don’t want to get involved”.

That can make things very hard for the police and sometimes victims. Not all victims cry out. Sometimes that’s very tough.