17 teams and a bye every week

[The Great Dane]

The fact is, if you aren't expanding as a sport, you're shrinking.

There is more competition than ever in every market.
In Sydney and Brisbane's previous generation, you grew up following League or Union.
Now, young people follow League, Union (lol?), A-League, AFL, NFL, EPL, NBA. There's only so far a sports budget stretches. It is IMPOSSIBLE to maintain the market share levels of yesteryear. No sport could do it. Even AFL in Melbourne will eventually feel this pinch. And this is before I mention the impact of video games and online entertainment content.

So, with that in mind, there are 2 reasons we need to be expanding
1 - if you aren't nationally and internationally relevant, new audiences aren't paying attention. There are so many bigger fish. In a multicultural international city like Sydney, a small-time attitude suburban football comp looks like shit compared to the NBA and NFL which everyone under 35 are paying roughly the cost of an NRL season ticket to stream on their phones.

2 - if the main market is becoming tighter, you need to be finding new markets to compensate.
It's far healthier to have 20% share in 10 markets than 80% share in 1 market.


TLDR; Anyone who is against expansion wants the sport to wither and die, and may as well be a Union fan.

Adding to what you are saying, even if the NRL could maintain their market share of Sydney the way they are going about it it'd come at the expense of their market share in the rest of the country.

In other words, they would be choosing to be a small regional product that is only popular in Sydney over having a significant presence in any other markets nationally, and as you say it's healthier to have a minority share in 10 markets than to have a majority share of 1.

 

[The Great Dane]

I don't really get why a 17 team competition would be better for the broadcasters.

No extra games per week, and the talent pool is thinned out. If you're going to expand, make it 18 and get the extra game each week. Have a split round in the middle of the year to give players a week off.

If the 18th team is Perth you get the 9pm timeslot, if it’s Wellington then the 6pm Friday’s timeslot is a bit less usesless.

I really don’t see why this is so hard to see.

From the broadcasters point of view with a 17 team competition they are effectively getting extra content for free, with an 18 team competition they have to pay for it and on top of that there're the extra production costs of producing the extra game.

In other words, an 18 team competition may be more valuable to them over all, but it's also more effort, where a 17 team competition isn't as valuable as 18, but it's no extra effort than they put into the 16 team competition now.

 

[tri_colours]

Melbourne cost the nrl $4.6mill a year extra for 5 years. Difference with perth is we have 20k plus RL fans wanting to go to games and two millionaires wanting to own the club. The nrl will need to spend more on grassroots if we want to see more WA jnrs come through. The big one will be corporate sponsorship. As long as we can hit that target then we won’t need extra funding.
As for suns and gws, their clubs operate on $40mill plus budgets whilst nrl clubs operate on around $25mill, big difference.

Yes , still handing out exta money to Melbourne 20 years later .

the AFL's Grant is roughly the same as ours. Gws and Suns are given an additional $10m each - last year the suns were dished out an extra $13m and 15m the year before that.

It would seam that the NRL are as confident as you are.,

 

[Perth Red]

Yes , still handing out exta money to Melbourne more than 20 years later .

the AFL's Grant is roughly the same as ours. Gws and Suns are given an additional $10m each - last year the suns were dished out an extra $13m and 15m the year before that.

It would seam that the NRL are as confident as you are.,

no they’re not lol. They didn’t hand any out at the beginning either. The only extra money the storm have had from the nrl is what I’ve add above which was part of the agreement for news ltd to get out of their ownership in 2013.

the afl doesn’t have a standard grant so in no way is same as ours. They have a variable grant based on a clubs other revenue levels. Suns and gws aren’t the only ones getting $20mill grants

in terms of club revenue, most clubs are areound

nrl grant $13mill
Sponsorship and box sales $6-7mill
Fan based revenue $3-4million

the big question for a perth club is the corporate part, in Perth they are competing with two of the biggest sports clubs in Australia and the most successful basketball club. This is where the greatest risk is imo.
Fan revenue comfortable we will be up there with the top 5 given the fanbase for RL I know is here and the disposable income of that fanbase would be one of the highest in Australia.

 

[melbbunny]

I don't really get why a 17 team competition would be better for the broadcasters.

.

Because the value of the 8th game will increase in value. It will allow the broadcasters to be more flexible with how they negotiate the TV rights - they may want a Brisbane game and a Sydney game on FTA played at the same time.

Plus it will also give them more QLD rivalry games. As QLD'ers count the Storm as an adopted team it could produce as many as 20 rivalry games over a season up from the current 12 which in turn gives more value.

 

[mongoose]

The fact is, if you aren't expanding as a sport, you're shrinking.

There is more competition than ever in every market.
In Sydney and Brisbane's previous generation, you grew up following League or Union.
Now, young people follow League, Union (lol?), A-League, AFL, NFL, EPL, NBA. There's only so far a sports budget stretches. It is IMPOSSIBLE to maintain the market share levels of yesteryear. No sport could do it. Even AFL in Melbourne will eventually feel this pinch. And this is before I mention the impact of video games and online entertainment content.

So, with that in mind, there are 2 reasons we need to be expanding
1 - if you aren't nationally and internationally relevant, new audiences aren't paying attention. There are so many bigger fish. In a multicultural international city like Sydney, a small-time attitude suburban football comp looks like shit compared to the NBA and NFL which everyone under 35 are paying roughly the cost of an NRL season ticket to stream on their phones.

2 - if the main market is becoming tighter, you need to be finding new markets to compensate.
It's far healthier to have 20% share in 10 markets than 80% share in 1 market.


TLDR; Anyone who is against expansion wants the sport to wither and die, and may as well be a Union fan.

I used to travel to Melbourne quite a bit for work and met up with teams made up of Indians and Sri Lankan immigrants (i'm in IT). None of them gave a toss about AFL and all loved English Premier League. That is the future Australian sports are going to deal with with for better or worse.

 

[adamkungl]

I used to travel to Melbourne quite a bit for work and met up with teams made up of Indians and Sri Lankan immigrants (i'm in IT). None of them gave a toss about AFL and all loved English Premier League. That is the future Australian sports are going to deal with with for better or worse.

Yep. I don't know how old people typically are on this site. But of all the sports fans I know under 35, most of them are following *at least* 1 of NFL, EPL, NBA, or MMA. And often 2 or 3. A lot of those people are also spending less time and money on NRL as a result.
The world has infinite choice in the internet age. It's not enough to be big in Sydney and Brisbane. Need to have a presence everywhere that matters.

 

[Perth Red]

Someone’s talking some sense,


https://www.theroar.com.au/2020/02/17/small-time-thinking-wont-achieve-big-time-goals/

 

[Perth Red]

Yep. I don't know how old people typically are on this site. But of all the sports fans I know under 35, most of them are following *at least* 1 of NFL, EPL, NBA, or MMA. And often 2 or 3. A lot of those people are also spending less time and money on NRL as a result.
The world has infinite choice in the internet age. It's not enough to be big in Sydney and Brisbane. Need to have a presence everywhere that matters.

Smith knew this, even Beattie knew this. Hell even the ARL knew this back in 1990.
Vlandys thinks the future of the game is getting 15k to go to Sydney suburban grounds and another team in Brisbane. No one ever accused RL of being visionary lol.

 

[BuffaloRules]

I’m actually in favour of expansion but whether there are 8 or 9 games of NRL a weekend and a team in Perth, it won’t have much impact on EPL, NFL and NBA eventually taking over or not.... As someone who has been a fan of NFL for decades, I can’t believe how crowded Sydney pubs are for the Super Bowl these days..

 

[Perth Red]

I’m actually in favour of expansion but whether there are 8 or 9 games of NRL a weekend and a team in Perth, it won’t have much impact on EPL, NFL and NBA eventually taking over or not.... As someone who has been a fan of NFL for decades, I can’t believe how crowded Sydney pubs are for the Super Bowl these days..

that’s why attendance is so important. If you’re just a tv product then you won’t compete with these massive global tv product sports. The only competitive edge nrl has is that you can actually go to a stadium and cheer on your club as opposed to sitting at home with a bag of crisp watching on tv.

 

[tri_colours]

no they’re not lol. They didn’t hand any out at the beginning either. The only extra money the storm have had from the nrl is what I’ve add above which was part of the agreement for news ltd to get out of their ownership in 2013.

the afl doesn’t have a standard grant so in no way is same as ours. They have a variable grant based on a clubs other revenue levels. Suns and gws aren’t the only ones getting $20mill grants

in terms of club revenue, most clubs are areound

nrl grant $13mill
Sponsorship and box sales $6-7mill
Fan based revenue $3-4million

the big question for a perth club is the corporate part, in Perth they are competing with two of the biggest sports clubs in Australia and the most successful basketball club. This is where the greatest risk is imo.
Fan revenue comfortable we will be up there with the top 5 given the fanbase for RL I know is here and the disposable income of that fanbase would be one of the highest in Australia.

It doesn't matter want you call it . Most clubs get $11 or 12milion from the AFL, GWS got 23m and the Suns ditto and they have been getting similar for 10 years! And you are right on one thing. The Lions (another expansion club ) are still get a grant /a handout - whatever you want to call it , of almost as much!

 

[Perth Red]

It doesn't matter want you call it . Most clubs get $11 or 12milion from the AFL, GWS got 23m and the Suns ditto and they have been getting similar for 10 years! And you are right on one thing. The Lions (another expansion club ) are still get a grant /a handout - whatever you want to call it , of almost as much!

I’m not sure your point, a number of afl clubs get significantly greater grants than some others. Yes this includes the expansion clubs but also includes some of the heartland clubs in Melbourne and adelaide. Would perth this level of extra funding?

I see No reason to believe Perth would or is any more of a risk than putting another club in Qland, after all look at the last “expansion” that involved a heartland extra club being added.

As for the afl investing in expansion, they’ve had a long term strategy to be Australia’s National football code, looking at the difference in central revenue between the two codes you’d have to say it isn’t a bad strategy.

 

[Loose Cannon]

I'm afraid I disagree with you. Maybe V'landys could have used a bit more tact but if they cant afford it then I totally agree with what he said.

Maybe the game should have had a 2nd team in Brisbane before this. But the league had no control over the events of 1995-.

A bit outside the square maybe but would give the game a much greater presence if it was shown throughout the pacific. If it gave the NRL another TV contract its not going to be a financial drain.

PNG has near double the population of NZ. And most of those are league followers.

It doesn't matter want you call it . Most clubs get $11 or 12milion from the AFL, GWS got 23m and the Suns ditto and they have been getting similar for 10 years! And you are right on one thing. The Lions (another expansion club ) are still get a grant /a handout - whatever you want to call it , of almost as much!

So Perth is a no-show, but Port Moresby would be okay.

 

[tri_colours]

So Perth is a no-show, but Port Moresby would be okay.

It would be if it could pick a TV carrier like SKY pacific to help with any additional costs. And as I said, The pacific offers a lot of up side.

As for Perth - does'nt seem like it, going by what the people who actually matter say. They may have better luck when the NRL has the money required to support the team.

 

[Wily Ole Dog]

It would be if it could pick a TV carrier like SKY pacific to help with any additional costs. And as I said, The pacific offers a lot of up side.

.

But, the only upside to a TV deal and the cash that comes with it is eyes on a TV.
PNG & Fiji don’t achieve this and never will

 

[tri_colours]

But, the only upside to a TV deal and the cash that comes with it is eyes on a TV.
PNG & Fiji don’t achieve this and never will

The SKY NZ pays the NRL about $20m a year . PNG has almost twice the population of NZ. and there are plenty of other league fans throughout the Pacific . They already have a PTV service , why couldn't they add the RL to it? 12m from Sky Pacific and they wouldn' t be costing the NRL a cent.

 

[Loose Cannon]

Let’s put this in perspective.



Apologies: I cut the source from photos 2 and 3.

 

[tri_colours]

They are a poor country, no doubt. But if the average wage is around $20 to $ 30 dollars a week.Why couldn't they pay $10 annually for the football?

 

[Perth Tiger]

that’s why attendance is so important. If you’re just a tv product then you won’t compete with these massive global tv product sports. The only competitive edge nrl has is that you can actually go to a stadium and cheer on your club as opposed to sitting at home with a bag of crisp watching on tv.

Well we are also lucky in the time difference. I am a fan of the NFL and casually the EPL but unless you are really dedicated (or young) it can be bloody hard getting up early to watch your team. Aus is somewhat insulated against the global leagues because of this, but that is not an excuse for the NRL to sit back and do nothing about it.