Slow Fowards

[saintrob]

evaluating our first two losses teams have identified our slow, less mobile forwards in defence. Graham, Vaughn, Lawrie etc, Jackson Ford definitely needs to be in the run on side and suggest when fit Cameron McInnes to lock and Ben Hunt to Hooker just to provide more mobility around the rucks.

 

[Dragon David]

evaluating our first two losses teams have identified our slow, less mobile forwards in defence. Graham, Vaughn, Lawrie etc, Jackson Ford definitely needs to be in the run on side and suggest when fit Cameron McInnes to lock and Ben Hunt to Hooker just to provide more mobility around the rucks.

Yeah, our guys just don't have the go get 'em approach at all. They need to hustle and bustle and run as hard and as quickly as possible. Our final year coach needs to bring Clune into the starting 13 - definitely has nothing to lose but everything to gain by doing this. Need Clune to improve our attack and he has nothing to lose but everything to gain as well.

 

[qld redvee]

main problem is the game plan ( or lack of) we have seen the same thing for the last 6 years . Our one out "power" game. thing is our forwards dont stand deep and run onto it with venom and look at an offload its just amble up play the ball and on we go . I believe we average around 38 metres for most of our sets and we then hope for a clearing kick that is effective.
If we adapted a different game plan - NEW COACH PLEASE COME ON DOWN then we may see a different outcome - I dont reckon the forwards enjoy being bashed every time and not be able to pass the ball Notice the power play and how graham gets it about the 3rd or 4th and just goes to the line even lawrie and vaughan have a good passing game but do we ever see it ?? no passing equals no second phase play where our centres could at least touch the ball in a attacking play

 

[RedVDragon]

It’s not slow forwards. The dragons under McIdiot, Mcflop, Mcdummy whatever you want to call that imposter...he has is principally responsible for creating the teams soft underbelly. What are the symptoms of the underbelly:-
1. Poor attitude
2. No discipline
3. No creativity
4. No grit
5. No guts to play for their mate.
I am calling it McIdiot-14. Since he took over as coach it been a really hard watching the once mighty dragons.

 

[Belta]

Watching Brisbane’s games and comparing their young athletic and powerful forwards to ours suggests we will be a fair ways off for sometime. Next year atleast we will have 600k or so more (JDB $) to spend. That should help. I personally think it would be good to add some mobility with Jackson Ford, as many other teams have atleast one smaller, quick forward but they seem to have a better balance and sufficient go forward ie Roosters have starting props and wingers getting near 200 m per game, that really helps, Last year we were either last or second last for average running metres and I feel we’re heading that way again which makes it hard to add too many lighter forwards. Vaughan was up in the top 50 players for running metres but he had little support. I see improvements this year with Lawrie looking stronger and Kerr and also TF especially if Korbin can return fully fit. If we could get some go forward One option could be Ford to start and have 4 forwards on the bench including TF. That means if a back goes down either a Ford or TF could play in the centres. Britain looks exciting and nippy also. Could be worth a shot with Britain at 9 and McInnes at lock.

I personally think the biggest factor contributing to our two losses was our play makers Hunt and Norman. The winning teams play makers, benji (game 1) than clearly (game 2) managed the game better, especially in the key moments. If our Hunt or Norman could have managed the game as well as those two mentioned I feel we would have two wins instead of two losses. Many people predicted this year to be a gap year and honestly I’m starting to think they’re probably right on the money - hang on to your hats it’s gunna be a bumpy ride folks

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

It’s all about attitude; Saints simply don’t have this under McGregor.

 

[Old Timer]

Our forward pack looks like the Broncos packs of the 90's that haunted Brian Smith namely "nuggety".
It worked back then but these days you have to have some really big boppers to have a real chance and having 3 or 4 older "nuggety" players in your team / on your bench just doesn't cut it these days.
In the "nuggety" category we have Merrin, Graham, Lawrie add to that T Sims, K Sims, Frizzell (who are not giants) which overall is 2-3 too many and if you add JDB to the list it makes the balance even worse.
Vaughan, Kerr should be a permanent fixtures and Blacker being immediately groomed to be a Nelson Asofa-Solomona type player.
Vaughan is being targeted and contained as we don't have enough big bodies targeting either side of the ruck and playing big minutes together.

 

[Eatons Hill Dragon]

Our forward pack looks like the Broncos packs of the 90's that haunted Brian Smith namely "nuggety".
It worked back then but these days you have to have some really big boppers to have a real chance and having 3 or 4 older "nuggety" players in your team / on your bench just doesn't cut it these days.
In the "nuggety" category we have Merrin, Graham, Lawrie add to that T Sims, K Sims, Frizzell (who are not giants) which overall is 2-3 too many and if you add JDB to the list it makes the balance even worse.
Vaughan, Kerr should be a permanent fixtures and Blacker being immediately groomed to be a Nelson Asofa-Solomona type player.
Vaughan is being targeted and contained as we don't have enough big bodies targeting either side of the ruck and playing big minutes together.

I agree with this. Now is the time to blood a young big front rower and stick with him.
Vaughan needs support as they condense and muscle up with line speed to slow him down.
Unfortunately Graham has no impact now and a 5 metre gain is good from him now so there is no threat to the defence.
Another young prop to either start or come off the bench is essential but they must be a big tall unit that will test the defence.
Would also like to see some second phase play so we need offloads in our game.

 

[Dragon David]

Our forward pack looks like the Broncos packs of the 90's that haunted Brian Smith namely "nuggety".
It worked back then but these days you have to have some really big boppers to have a real chance and having 3 or 4 older "nuggety" players in your team / on your bench just doesn't cut it these days.
In the "nuggety" category we have Merrin, Graham, Lawrie add to that T Sims, K Sims, Frizzell (who are not giants) which overall is 2-3 too many and if you add JDB to the list it makes the balance even worse.
Vaughan, Kerr should be a permanent fixtures and Blacker being immediately groomed to be a Nelson Asofa-Solomona type player.
Vaughan is being targeted and contained as we don't have enough big bodies targeting either side of the ruck and playing big minutes together.

There are several clubs that have big boppers to dominate the middle some of whom can offload effectively and create havoc in attack and defence. These clubs win more games than not. I wouldn't say that our forwards are the big bopper type and as a result struggle most of the time and energy is sapped out of them. So the bench has to have strong and fit replacements to take over as needed. We don't have any real enforcers - hopefully the likes of Kerr and Blacker can lift and fit into enforcing big boppers soon.

 

[Old Timer]

IMO you have to have a point of difference with your forwards
We have same same and replace one nuggety forward with a clone.
Little to no change in momentum or attacking style so we are predictable and pedestrian.
People thought K Sims would bring that but the reality is his best was behind a few dominating, intimidating Broncos forwards and we simply don’t have those types of players
As good as Vaughan can be he is not dominating or intimidating like Haas, Pangai Jnr, Lodge, Klemmer, Bromwich & co or even JWH for that matter.
Our pack doesn’t dominate or intimidate anyone and the smart teams just wait for the inevitable fatigue (gotta love the power game) to set in and then target our weak spots.

 

[Eatons Hill Dragon]

We need an intimidating meat head who puts fear into the opposition.
Can Jason Hoogerwerf come out of retirement.

 

[Dragon David]

IMO you have to have a point of difference with your forwards
We have same same and replace one nuggety forward with a clone.
Little to no change in momentum or attacking style so we are predictable and pedestrian.
People thought K Sims would bring that but the reality is his best was behind a few dominating, intimidating Broncos forwards and we simply don’t have those types of players
As good as Vaughan can be he is not dominating or intimidating like Haas, Pangai Jnr, Lodge, Klemmer, Bromwich & co or even JWH for that matter.
Our pack doesn’t dominate or intimidate anyone and the smart teams just wait for the inevitable fatigue (gotta love the power game) to set in and then target our weak spots.

This is definitely the way I see it. Vaughan is quite predictable, he sometimes offloads but mainly just takes it up and not overly forceful and not really dominant. Graham is now ready for the hinterland to sit back and relax so he does not show much in the way of domination. K Sims needs tough, uncompromising props to help him on his way. Hopefully our coaches are doing everything possible to have guys like Kerr and Blacker toughened up and to be resilient.
WE NEED MORE ENFORCERS!! Mr Millward.

 

[2010]

I have only watched a couple of games and you watch old Benji and the 1/2 from Canterbury. Their kicking game makes our kickers look pretty bad.

 

[blacksafake]

Slow forwards matched by slow backs.

 

[possm]

I would not say our forwards are slow. Frizell, Sims, McInnes and Vaughan have all demonstrated that they have pace in the past. It is all about the game plan and the coach's instructions.

• Graham should not be there he is not up to it anymore,
• Lawrie needs help to learn how to off-load the ball.
• Ford is quick but seems to be down in Mary's pecking order.
• Kerr is on his way up the pecking order in 2020.

So having said this:

1. Lomax
2. Dufty - with roving instructions in attack
3. Fuimaono
4. Williame
5. Ravalawa
6. Hunt - running five-eighth
7. Clune - game manager
8. Kerr
9. McInnes
10. Vaughan
11. T Sims
12. Ford
13. Frizell

14. Brittain
15. Merrin
16. Lawrie
17. Host

So Aitken, Lafai, Norman, Graham all in CC and if possible gone for 2021. If Hunt does not go well at 6, next stop is Hooker and if still no good, let him go elsewhere and promote Sullivan to 7.

Let's see how Lomax goes over the next few games, maybe until after June 30.

 

[redandwhite4evr]

I would not say our forwards are slow. Frizell, Sims, McInnes and Vaughan have all demonstrated that they have pace in the past. It is all about the game plan and the coach's instructions.

• Graham should not be there he is not up to it anymore,
• Lawrie needs help to learn how to off-load the ball.
• Ford is quick but seems to be down in Mary's pecking order.
• Kerr is on his way up the pecking order in 2020.

So having said this:

1. Lomax
2. Dufty - with roving instructions in attack
3. Fuimaono
4. Williame
5. Ravalawa
6. Hunt - running five-eighth
7. Clune - game manager
8. Kerr
9. McInnes
10. Vaughan
11. T Sims
12. Ford
13. Frizell

14. Brittain
15. Merrin
16. Lawrie
17. Host

So Aitken, Lafai, Norman, Graham all in CC and if possible gone for 2021. If Hunt does not go well at 6, next stop is Hooker and if still no good, let him go elsewhere and promote Sullivan to 7.

Let's see how Lomax goes over the next few games, maybe until after June 30.

Agree with all EXCEPT Pereira- he was our best and most penetrative back-hard to stop, very good in particular coming off the line- very unfair to be dropping him- should be the first back picked- Fui to the forwards and Ford on the bench for mine-