Corey Norman??

[Old Timer]

I have agonised over our recruitment and retention policy many, many times and also blamed Millward which in hindsight was incorrect.
Mc Fookknuckle identifies the player and Millward is left to do the deal and fit it under the cap aka as being the bagman.
If Mc Fookknuckle has identified who he wants and Millward has indeed got them and kept the cap in tact then by all accounts he has done his job.
If players want out and it is only by paying serious overs that you can retain him, then best to let them go. Again in this regard Millward has done his job.
In fact Millward is probably the 1 person who has actually met his KPI's.
Because Millward is the man out the front with announcements he unfortunately ends up with the albatross's draped around his neck and gets the blame for some things that are totally beyond his control.
The squad Mc Fookkncukle wanted is the squad he got so only 1 man responsible for that and if that squad then starts to play well below expectation the coach and his staff (can anyone remember the names of the vanquished?) are to be held responsible.
I think I read somewhere that something like 90 people have been in the passing parade of coaching and associated staff and only the top 2 originals remain and the BOD are responsible for that.
Sorry Basil I pidgeon holed you for Mc Fookknuckle's lack of ability in assessing or enhancing talent.

 

[BLM01]

If you remember when we called in Mullholland (2014) to decipher the salary cap mess that we had gotten into.
I thought Mullholland did a good job to unravel the mess financially and got us back on the straight and narrow.
Then one day, the cooperation with one of the best recruitment guys in the business just ended abruptly and Millward was handed the job.
Now that was another decision that the club made to accommodate the inner sanctum and give jobs to the old boys.
I find it interesting that Millward and Mary have continued to recruit lots of senior players including Graham who provides passion and experience but little else.
Hunt was supposed to solve our halfback problem and he and Widdop were supposed to be the cat's meow in terms of halves combinations.
The results suggest otherwise.
Widdop decided to bail and Norman was signed on the rebound to form a mediocre, underperforming partnership with Hunt that has catapulted us to the bottom of the table.
Now Frizzell has also decided to bail.
So what conclusion can you draw from all that?
Well, Peter Mullholland left us to go back to the Raiders and has successfully recruited a number of key players resulting in Canberra contesting the GF in 2019.
Mullholland has been part of the old boys club that has our great club plumbing the depths of despair in terms of results..
So even though you can't blame Millward totally, he is part of a corrupt set up and must take a big part of the responsibility.
We will never attract top level players under the current set up.

DP....you are wrong re Mulholland and need to get your facts right.
I know he had become ill and wanted to go back closer to family but not made public.
He is still battling his illness.
Dave Warwick from Manly took over until 2016 after PM not Millward. Now that was a poor appointment. He went to the Tigers after that for a stint...not sure he is still there?
Millward..meh...done OK but our team assembled in 2016 courtesy of others was a tough one to build upon.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

DP....you are wrong re Mulholland and need to get your facts right.
I know he had become ill and wanted to go back closer to family but not made public.
He is still battling his illness.
Dave Warwick from Manly took over until 2016 after PM not Millward. Now that was a poor appointment. He went to the Tigers after that for a stint...not sure he is still there?
Millward..meh...done OK but our team assembled in 2016 courtesy of others was a tough one to build upon.

I am happy to stand corrected but I heard that elements within St. George were obstructive and dictatorial towards him.
One of the reasons he left.
I didn't know about his illness.
The main point however is jobs for the boys - Millward and Mary.
Results tell a dire picture.
Millward must shoulder some of the responsibility at least. Retention is certainly not his strong suit.

 

[True_Believer]

If you remember when we called in Mullholland (2014) to decipher the salary cap mess that we had gotten into.
I thought Mullholland did a good job to unravel the mess financially and got us back on the straight and narrow.
Then one day, the cooperation with one of the best recruitment guys in the business just ended abruptly and Millward was handed the job.
Now that was another decision that the club made to accommodate the inner sanctum and give jobs to the old boys.
I find it interesting that Millward and Mary have continued to recruit lots of senior players including Graham who provides passion and experience but little else.
Hunt was supposed to solve our halfback problem and he and Widdop were supposed to be the cat's meow in terms of halves combinations.
The results suggest otherwise.
Widdop decided to bail and Norman was signed on the rebound to form a mediocre, underperforming partnership with Hunt that has catapulted us to the bottom of the table.
Now Frizzell has also decided to bail.
So what conclusion can you draw from all that?
Well, Peter Mullholland left us to go back to the Raiders and has successfully recruited a number of key players resulting in Canberra contesting the GF in 2019.
Mullholland has been part of the old boys club that has our great club plumbing the depths of despair in terms of results..
So even though you can't blame Millward totally, he is part of a corrupt set up and must take a big part of the responsibility.
We will never attract top level players under the current set up.

A player doesn't make a decision to join or not join the club based on who the recruitment manager is. A player doesn't think to himself "I'm not going to join the Dragons because Millward is the recruitment manager." A good or in demand player makes his decisions on the potential of the club and the coach/coaching staff and what he can get out it. And sometimes it's just about money. At the moment, neither of first 2 things are enticing to the players we need to attract. So from that angle, Millward has nothing other than money to be able to entice the players we need. And then he's bagged for paying overs. Either overs, or only being able to attract players who aren't wanted anywhere else or who are looking at retirement. It's a no win situation.

The issues revolving around the coach and the attractiveness of the club have been alluded to in player interviews and comments right here in this forum. Even the fact that Frizz chose to leave based on Newcastle matching our offer - that speaks volumes about his view on our ability to challenge for the premiership and the coaching. Again, unless Millward is prepared to pay much more money (and Frizz has even denied this was a factor) to secure his services, we've got nothing, in his eyes, to keep him here. And if we've got nothing to keep a player already here, what sort of chance have we got of attracting new quality players.

People go on about signing like for like, but rarely have we been in a position to do that. Realistically, who was available when Widdop left? Who has been available since JDB has been out (not to mention a sunk cost)? People make it sound like it's easy to get players to join the club. Mullholland might have cleaned up the cap for us, but he also made a couple of dud calls while here. Farrell, Williams, Nabuli, Neilson, Keating, Rose and a 2 year contract for Rein. Soward, Morris and Bird all left under his watch. This only strengthens my view that recruitment have it tough when the coaching and the club have nothing to offer good players.

Hell, Millward has been able to retain so many of our juniors, but the stumbling block is Mary. We've had to let players go because they aren't getting a shot (not Millwards call). We've also got a couple of first rate youngsters in first grade getting screwed around because the coach doesn't know how to develop them (not Millwards call). But because we can't keep them indefinitely it's Millwards fault? I'm not sure how people come to that conclusion.

I really don't think we can judge the recruitment or the current players until we have a better coach. Once we have someone better in that position who knows how to get the best out of the players, we're never going to get an accurate picture of what our current players can do or see how good the recruitment can be.

 

[TruSaint]

Mulholland was in charge for 2014-2015.
Millward 2015 onwards.

None of these were "stellar" years by any measure. However, there is only one common denominator that covers the entire period. Mary.

Players come for "overs" and leave for "on par". Above all I blame the board. Mary was given 2 extensions by those above him.

 

[True_Believer]

Mulholland was in charge for 2014-2015.
Millward 2015 onwards.

None of these were "stellar" years by any measure. However, there is only one common denominator that covers the entire period. Mary.

Players come for "overs" and leave for "on par". Above all I blame the board. Mary was given 2 extensions by those above him.

I think as BLM has pointed out, Mullholland was here for 14/15, Warwick for 16 and Millward from 17 onwards.

 

[TruSaint]

I think as BLM has pointed out, Mullholland was here for 14/15, Warwick for 16 and Millward from 17 onwards.

Millward has been with us since 2015, but if you recall he took over recruitment in 17. When the club decided to remove Mary from duties other than coaching. He did though have an assistant role in the 2 years prior mate.

Edit: My point being @True_Believer , that during our down years, be it 2, 3 or 4 recruitment managers the common denominator is Mary.

 

[True_Believer]

Millward has been with us since 2015, but if you recall he took over recruitment in 17. When the club decided to remove Mary from duties other than coaching. He did though have an assistant role in the 2 years prior mate.

Edit: My point being @True_Believer , that during our down years, be it 2, 3 or 4 recruitment managers the common denominator is Mary.

Correct. Millward was an assistant coach prior to taking over recruitment in 2017.

I have said this before, I don’t think Millward is the best recruitment manager going around, however I thinks he’s done a reasonable job given the direction and the tools he’s had.

 

[TruSaint]

Correct. Millward was an assistant coach prior to taking over recruitment in 2017.

I have said this before, I don’t think Millward is the best recruitment manager going around, however I thinks he’s done a reasonable job given the direction and the tools he’s had.

Agreed.

Its very hard to judge recruitment with the variables we have. Trying to retain juniors ( many clubs dont have that issue), sadly a poor performing footy club for a decade or so now, and a coach whom has had his contracted extended twice.

At the minute we have to pay overs to retain / entice quality.

 

[True_Believer]

Agreed.

Its very hard to judge recruitment with the variables we have. Trying to retain juniors ( many clubs dont have that issue), sadly a poor performing footy club for a decade or so now, and a coach whom has had his contracted extended twice.

At the minute we have to pay overs to retain / entice quality.

Spot on Tru.

It’s disappointing and frustrating to say the least.

 

[BLM01]

I am happy to stand corrected but I heard that elements within St. George were obstructive and dictatorial towards him.
One of the reasons he left.
I didn't know about his illness.
The main point however is jobs for the boys - Millward and Mary.
Results tell a dire picture.
Millward must shoulder some of the responsibility at least. Retention is certainly not his strong suit.

No argument from me re jobs for boys...however.
Since Millward came in 2016 and some will argue Garrick but who have we let go that we should of kept that has come back to bite us. Dont discount Mary's influence of who he wants to keep.
Yes I will say Frizz, Benji but both walked from the club and Mary cause Millward did everything he could to keep Frizz at least. Benji not wanted by Mary as he was too old..too slow!
Garrick could not find a spot under regime Mary as his form in CC was nothing good so how could Millward entice him to stay. Manly offered him 1st grade anf he needed to find a new club to shine and find his feet under a decent coach...kudos to him.
I will judge Millward more to see who we have assembled and our depth from juniors etc by 2021/2022 once the road block is flattened out and discarded.
He has been hamstrung under the unwanted one.
Sure...Millward may have made errors in judgement on some incoming players but $$$ and any recruitment person has made those mistakes.
Look at The Tigers, Titans and even The Dogs

 

[BLM01]

Millward has been with us since 2015, but if you recall he took over recruitment in 17. When the club decided to remove Mary from duties other than coaching. He did though have an assistant role in the 2 years prior mate.

Edit: My point being @True_Believer , that during our down years, be it 2, 3 or 4 recruitment managers the common denominator is Mary.

That was 2016 Tru Millward took over not 2017.. He was coaching reserve grade before being asst to dunderhead. He came back to us in 2014

 

[BLM01]

I think as BLM has pointed out, Mullholland was here for 14/15, Warwick for 16 and Millward from 17 onwards.

LOL TB...you are almost correct. I'll set the record straight for ya

2014 - PM - left after Mary got the job and given 3 yr deal.
2015 - DW - 1 year tenure
2016 - Basil starts after the 1st big season review under Mary football staff shake up!
2017 - Mary extended for 2 more years
2018 - 2nd football staff overhaul
2019 - Mary extended for 2 more years
2020 - 3rd football club staff overhaul
See a 2 year pattern here anybody?
2021 - New head coach

 

[blacksafake]

LOL TB...you are almost correct. I'll set the record straight for ya

2014 - PM - left after Mary got the job and given 3 yr deal.
2015 - DW - 1 year tenure
2016 - Basil starts after the 1st big season review under Mary football staff shake up!
2017 - Mary extended for 2 more years
2018 - 2nd football staff overhaul
2019 - Mary extended for 2 more years
2020 - 3rd football club staff overhaul
See a 2 year pattern here anybody?
2021 - New head coach

Bloody staff reviews.

 

[possm]

Pointless Crush. Let him go on his rant. I've already asked him previously what he would do differently as recruitment manager if he found himself in the exact same position. Met with silence. Although I can imagine the outlandish response I would get if he did decide to answer - "I'd sign this player, and I'd sign this player and I'd get like for like etc". No regards to money or ability to attract a player to the club. This stuff can just "happen" apparently.

He just likes to blame Millward no matter what is said. It's not going to change.

The problem is with recruitment/retention/pathways. Millward is in charge of those areas. Why all the protection around 'old boy Millward'. Like Dean Young he only got the job because his father was a power broker at SGI at the time. I say clean out the old boys who did not have to win their job.

 

[possm]

Millward isn't responsible for the dire form of the players! When he signed Hunt he signed one of the best halfbacks in the game, not his fault that Hunt, Norman forgot how to play football. And on Frizzell, what do you want him to do!? He offered him good money but Frizzell accepted the same deal at another club because he wanted to play in a different Jersey!
How is that Millwards fault?
Please explain how Millward should have kept Frizzell!

One would assume that Millward knew the end date of Frizell's deal many months in advance. He should have extended his contract well in advance and inside the period other clubs could target Frizell. I suppose using Vaugan as an example - was signed and then extended and upgraded well before his contract was due to end and well before other clubs could target him.

 

[gitano]

One would assume that Millward knew the end date of Frizell's deal many months in advance. He should have extended his contract well in advance and inside the period other clubs could target Frizell. I suppose using Vaugan as an example - was signed and then extended and upgraded well before his contract was due to end and well before other clubs could target him.

Assuming it's all in the club's control there, possm.

A player will always say money isn't a factor, but you'd be silly not to test the market. Especially if it's your last big contract.

Potentially some issues there as well with Friz and people at the Dragons.

Either way, smart move to let him and go and not pay overs for a position which isn't of concern.

 

[BLM01]

One would assume that Millward knew the end date of Frizell's deal many months in advance. He should have extended his contract well in advance and inside the period other clubs could target Frizell. I suppose using Vaugan as an example - was signed and then extended and upgraded well before his contract was due to end and well before other clubs could target him.

Bloody staff reviews.

Problem is...Mary was likely in charge of all of them...no wonder he is still here.

 

[BLM01]

The problem is with recruitment/retention/pathways. Millward is in charge of those areas. Why all the protection around 'old boy Millward'. Like Dean Young he only got the job because his father was a power broker at SGI at the time. I say clean out the old boys who did not have to win their job.

So is Mary and the BOD. Why the protection of them!
I think Millward is showing he has a pass mark in retention and pathways. The jury is out on recruitment and the balancing of our depth and cap....he inherited a Doust / Young, Warwick recruitment MESS. Mulholland not so sure and will give him BOD as he is a proven good recruitment spotter.
As @Dennis Papaioannou said he was likely hamstrung by Doust & Young with having a full licence to do what he needed to do.
Being diagnosed with the big C and they way our club was run was enough for him to give us the heave ho!

 

[True_Believer]

LOL TB...you are almost correct. I'll set the record straight for ya

2014 - PM - left after Mary got the job and given 3 yr deal.
2015 - DW - 1 year tenure
2016 - Basil starts after the 1st big season review under Mary football staff shake up!
2017 - Mary extended for 2 more years
2018 - 2nd football staff overhaul
2019 - Mary extended for 2 more years
2020 - 3rd football club staff overhaul
See a 2 year pattern here anybody?
2021 - New head coach

I think it's confusion around the roles/titles.

PM was actually here for 2014/15 as director of retention and recruitment. Millward took over that role when he left at the end of 15. https://www.dragons.com.au/news/2015/10/15/mulholland-departs/

albeit with a new title https://www.dragons.com.au/news/2016/01/08/dragons-announce-key-staff-changes/
This link also states DW came on board.

DW was the role of recruitment manager before being 'poached' by the tigers early 2017 - so he was here for 2016. https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/we...george-illawarra-dragons-20170104-gtlrfr.html

There looks to be a bit of an overlap of roles there.