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James Graham

SBD82

Coach
Messages
16,911
And how do you know about the character about half the blokes on here?
I neither said “know” nor “half the blokes on here”.

What I said was that I doubt that the people laying in the boot to Graham have half his good character. I stand by that. He doesn’t strike me as the kind of bloke who would make disparaging remarks on an online forum about a person’s character based on what he may have said without context.
Pretentious, self righteous comment that does you no favours.
Since you seem to have misunderstood my comment, I think I’ll take the high road and leave this alone. Not my normal approach, but @TruSaint has a positive effect on my manners.
Graham has been at our club for a couple of years. Why all the loyalty? His passion? His reputation and career?
Loyalty? No. I would extend the same respect to any man who has demonstrated good character. Regardless of what club he was playing for.
No one is laying the boot in
I looked back at the comments before mine to see if I was being unfair. Only had to scroll up a few to find that he was being labelled “selfish”. What would you call that? Well rounded analysis?
he is not the legend at this stage of his career that makes any material difference to our Team.
He is just making up the numbers right now and blocking a pathway for a younger prop to develop into a first grader.
That's reality.
Personally, I hope he retires as soon as possible.
The development of young props is, and always has been, very difficult. Whether James is stunting the development of young props, or is the best thing for them to have at training and on the park to show them how it is done, is not a call that I could make with any certainty. It’s a balance thing, and something that even the best coaching staff, with much more information at their disposal than you or I, still sometimes get wrong.

If this was the only criticism of James I think it’s a valid discussion. But if people want to use this as a platform to disparage the character of a good man, then I make no apologies for upsetting people by calling it as I see it.
 
Messages
2,866
I neither said “know” nor “half the blokes on here”.

What I said was that I doubt that the people laying in the boot to Graham have half his good character. I stand by that. He doesn’t strike me as the kind of bloke who would make disparaging remarks on an online forum about a person’s character based on what he may have said without context.

Since you seem to have misunderstood my comment, I think I’ll take the high road and leave this alone. Not my normal approach, but @TruSaint has a positive effect on my manners.

Loyalty? No. I would extend the same respect to any man who has demonstrated good character. Regardless of what club he was playing for.

I looked back at the comments before mine to see if I was being unfair. Only had to scroll up a few to find that he was being labelled “selfish”. What would you call that? Well rounded analysis?

The development of young props is, and always has been, very difficult. Whether James is stunting the development of young props, or is the best thing for them to have at training and on the park to show them how it is done, is not a call that I could make with any certainty. It’s a balance thing, and something that even the best coaching staff, with much more information at their disposal than you or I, still sometimes get wrong.

If this was the only criticism of James I think it’s a valid discussion. But if people want to use this as a platform to disparage the character of a good man, then I make no apologies for upsetting people by calling it as I see it.
I honestly don't believe that you are in a position to talk about anyone else's character other than your own.
The character of James Graham has not been brought into disrepute even by the term "selfish".
It is one thing to discuss Graham's signing through to his imminent departure and quite another to broaden the discussion to include granular commentary about his character.and especially, making comments about other people's character who you don't even know.
You can stand by your comments all you like but that is precisely what I took exception to.
So let's take the "good character" discussion one step further and add some of his exploits on the field:
1. Graham copped a 12 match ban for biting Slater's ear in the 2012 Grand Final.
2. Lead with his head (on purpose) and busted Burgess's cheekbone in the early stages of the 2014 Grand Final.
3. April 2015 handed a 4 week suspension for dissent - Graham has a long history of mouthing off at the refs and is a serial offender in that regard. Many people label this is as "passion" but this is just an excuse for bad behaviour.

None of the above BTW is subjective, So if you really want to jump on the "good character" bandwaggon then take a 360 degree view and be objective.
Putting Graham on a pedestal and bringing other people's character into question is not a fruitful passtime in my opinion.
 

redv13

Bench
Messages
2,780
I honestly don't believe that you are in a position to talk about anyone else's character other than your own.
The character of James Graham has not been brought into disrepute even by the term "selfish".
It is one thing to discuss Graham's signing through to his imminent departure and quite another to broaden the discussion to include granular commentary about his character.and especially, making comments about other people's character who you don't even know.
You can stand by your comments all you like but that is precisely what I took exception to.
So let's take the "good character" discussion one step further and add some of his exploits on the field:
1. Graham copped a 12 match ban for biting Slater's ear in the 2012 Grand Final.
2. Lead with his head (on purpose) and busted Burgess's cheekbone in the early stages of the 2014 Grand Final.
3. April 2015 handed a 4 week suspension for dissent - Graham has a long history of mouthing off at the refs and is a serial offender in that regard. Many people label this is as "passion" but this is just an excuse for bad behaviour.

None of the above BTW is subjective, So if you really want to jump on the "good character" bandwaggon then take a 360 degree view and be objective.
Putting Graham on a pedestal and bringing other people's character into question is not a fruitful passtime in my opinion.
I disagree with point 2:
There is no way that was on purpose. That was a huge collision within the first 10 secs and in my opinion that was a textbook head clash. Burgess and JG both went in a million miles an hour and you see that a fair bit
 

SBD82

Coach
Messages
16,911
I honestly don't believe that you are in a position to talk about anyone else's character other than your own.
The character of James Graham has not been brought into disrepute even by the term "selfish".
It is one thing to discuss Graham's signing through to his imminent departure and quite another to broaden the discussion to include granular commentary about his character.and especially, making comments about other people's character who you don't even know.
You can stand by your comments all you like but that is precisely what I took exception to.
So let's take the "good character" discussion one step further and add some of his exploits on the field:
1. Graham copped a 12 match ban for biting Slater's ear in the 2012 Grand Final.
2. Lead with his head (on purpose) and busted Burgess's cheekbone in the early stages of the 2014 Grand Final.
3. April 2015 handed a 4 week suspension for dissent - Graham has a long history of mouthing off at the refs and is a serial offender in that regard. Many people label this is as "passion" but this is just an excuse for bad behaviour.

None of the above BTW is subjective, So if you really want to jump on the "good character" bandwaggon then take a 360 degree view and be objective.
Putting Graham on a pedestal and bringing other people's character into question is not a fruitful passtime in my opinion.
I would say that the actions that you have listed may point to facets of his character. (Subjectively of course). But calling someone selfish is a direct criticism of their character.
 

redv13

Bench
Messages
2,780
Jimmy actually turns side on bracing himself, point of impact so that’s hardly leading with the head
 
Messages
2,866
I disagree with point 2:
There is no way that was on purpose. That was a huge collision within the first 10 secs and in my opinion that was a textbook head clash. Burgess and JG both went in a million miles an hour and you see that a fair bit
Ok rationalize it all you like but the other 2 points are undeniable.
Please address the point I'm making and stop trying to skirt the issue.
I'm not even casting a shadow over his "character". All I am doing is showing you that your arguments are basically flawed.
 

TruSaint

Referee
Messages
20,095
His actions on the field have left him with some baggage.

The head collision with Burgess is what 99% of footy fans want to see. Not the injury itself, but the absolute fierce nature of 2 players putting their body on the line.

The nasty incident with Slater he has
to live with. It was ugly and a brain snap.

The mighty Saints had a phantom bitter, and many want the biff to return. Graham is old school.

Mouthing off to refs is nothing IMHO. Happens every game.

His character is best judged by those who have played or coached him.

Like say, Wayne Bennett...

Bennett labels Graham one of the finest leaders he's seen
https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/10/25/bennett-labels-graham-one-of-the-finest-leaders-hes-seen/

or, Josh reynolds

James Graham's selfless attempt to keep Josh Reynolds at Canterbury Bulldogs
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/james-grahams-selfless-attempt-to-keep-josh-reynolds-at-canterbury-bulldogs-20170908-gydiv5.html

or,

Sam Burgess, Hasler, etc etc etc.
 
Messages
2,866
His actions on the field have left him with some baggage.

The head collision with Burgess is what 99% of footy fans want to see. Not the injury itself, but the absolute fierce nature of 2 players putting their body on the line.

The nasty incident with Slater he has
to live with. It was ugly and a brain snap.

The mighty Saints had a phantom bitter, and many want the biff to return. Graham is old school.

Mouthing off to refs is nothing IMHO. Happens every game.

His character is best judged by those who have played or coached him.

Like say, Wayne Bennett...

Bennett labels Graham one of the finest leaders he's seen
https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/10/25/bennett-labels-graham-one-of-the-finest-leaders-hes-seen/

or, Josh reynolds

James Graham's selfless attempt to keep Josh Reynolds at Canterbury Bulldogs
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/james-grahams-selfless-attempt-to-keep-josh-reynolds-at-canterbury-bulldogs-20170908-gydiv5.html

or,

Sam Burgess, Hasler, etc etc etc.
You're missing my point...
 
Messages
2,866
His actions on the field have left him with some baggage.

The head collision with Burgess is what 99% of footy fans want to see. Not the injury itself, but the absolute fierce nature of 2 players putting their body on the line.

The nasty incident with Slater he has
to live with. It was ugly and a brain snap.

The mighty Saints had a phantom bitter, and many want the biff to return. Graham is old school.

Mouthing off to refs is nothing IMHO. Happens every game.

His character is best judged by those who have played or coached him.

Like say, Wayne Bennett...

Bennett labels Graham one of the finest leaders he's seen
https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/10/25/bennett-labels-graham-one-of-the-finest-leaders-hes-seen/

or, Josh reynolds

James Graham's selfless attempt to keep Josh Reynolds at Canterbury Bulldogs
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/james-grahams-selfless-attempt-to-keep-josh-reynolds-at-canterbury-bulldogs-20170908-gydiv5.html

or,

Sam Burgess, Hasler, etc etc etc.
Graham is a standout when it comes to bad behaviour and mouthing off at the refs.
You don't get a 4 weeks dissent suspension for nothing. I think the commentary mentioned something about a "foul mouthed tirade".
He also apologized for his bad behaviour to his team mates.
So to make light of that is being biased.
Even after the apology, he kept doing it and there have been times he has done it playing for us.
I don't like it, it's unnecessary and just rubs the refs up the wrong way.
 

redv13

Bench
Messages
2,780
Dennis everyone will have an opinion and some strongly agree and some strongly disagree. At the end of the day he plays for our club and we as supporters should be cheering him on not putting the boot in. His effort and determination every week is unquestionable and if we had 17 players with his desire then we wouldn’t be in this mess!!
 

TruSaint

Referee
Messages
20,095
Graham is a standout when it comes to bad behaviour and mouthing off at the refs.
You don't get a 4 weeks dissent suspension for nothing. I think the commentary mentioned something about a "foul mouthed tirade".
He also apologized for his bad behaviour to his team mates.
So to make light of that is being biased.
Even after the apology, he kept doing it and there have been times he has done it playing for us.
I don't like it, it's unnecessary and just rubs the refs up the wrong way.

Agree to disagree.

I like it when a player leaves it all out on the field. His mates have been on record saying words to the effect of " this is the guy you want in the trenches with you".

Anyway, we see it differently. I condemn his biting incident as I find it beyond the pale, but support the guts and fierce nature he exhibits whenever he runs onto the paddock.
 
Messages
2,866
Dennis everyone will have an opinion and some strongly agree and some strongly disagree. At the end of the day he plays for our club and we as supporters should be cheering him on not putting the boot in. His effort and determination every week is unquestionable and if we had 17 players with his desire then we wouldn’t be in this mess!!
I don't disagree and respect the man's passion and desire to still be playing at the top level for so long.
Unfortunately, after 7 years of absolute rubbish that has been fed to the fans, I am less tolerant now than I have ever been.
Maybe the focus on Graham as a player was just an extension of the general frustration felt by me and some other fans in general.
I believe all our fans would like to see a Team which is gritty and resilient.
We lose games by going down fighting to the end.
I can't cope with some of the capitulations that I have witnessed since 2010.
We want a Team that is going to compete and be in contention of winning a Grand Final.
We haven't even looked close to that for too long.
That is not a true reflection of our club and a sad indictment on the people in charge.
So I look at Graham as one of the 17 that represent our club every week. Nothing more and nothing less.
Last year he did very little to enhance his reputation and was undoubtedly part of the overall result that shamed us like never before.
Passion, career history, character are all great attributes but none of that has helped us during his short tenure at St. George.
 
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