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News Coronavirus and NRL

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,925
I agree the game is robotic but that tactic isn't used as much as it used to be, neither is the grubber kick. Some people hate it but the zero tackle rule has reduced the use of kicking pretty effectively and also the quick restart.

I agree, perception often trumps reality, that's why we need science!
 

lockyno1

Post Whore
Messages
52,650
I agree the game is robotic but that tactic isn't used as much as it used to be, neither is the grubber kick. Some people hate it but the zero tackle rule has reduced the use of kicking pretty effectively and also the quick restart.

That was a good change I’d personally still like more incentive to run the ball. Even giving a running try the kick between the posts. Maybe it’s just me that’s fine.
 

horrie hastings

First Grade
Messages
7,340
East's have invested heavily on the Central Coast

From linking with Wyong, buying Woy Woy LC add blue to the Woy Woy's red and white, rebadging CC Juniors from the Centurians in U16s U18s NSW Country championships U16s U18s U23s and W-NSWRL team. As well as linking the Bears on the north shorea

Yet when they get their perfect chance to play games at Gosford they make a runner for Leichhardt and now Bankwest. They sell off Woy Woy LC as soon as someone sneezes

Not sure why the Roosters would move up to Gosford during this season, makes more sense to have Manly and Newcastle play out of there and also having the Warriors based in Gosford at the moment.
Also Woy Woy Leagues club has been bleeding money for years, Easts have been propping for quite a while now and considering the current state of everything at the moment i'm not surprised they closed it.
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,563
Not sure why the Roosters would move up to Gosford during this season, makes more sense to have Manly and Newcastle play out of there and also having the Warriors based in Gosford at the moment.
Also Woy Woy Leagues club has been bleeding money for years, Easts have been propping for quite a while now and considering the current state of everything at the moment i'm not surprised they closed it.

Rather than 5 teams at Bankwest

You would have 4 at Gosford, 4 at Bankwest and 4 at Campbelltown

Balance the wear a tear on the pitch

Rather than over use of Bankwest
 
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horrie hastings

First Grade
Messages
7,340
Rather than 5 teams at Bankwest

You would have 4 at Gosford, 4 at Bakwest and 4 at Campbelltown

Balance the wear a tear on the pitch

Rather than over use of Bankwest

It's funny how Leichhardt Oval was deemed suitable for round 2 but not now but I think it was to do with people watching from over the back fences, one of the tempory scaffolding structures one group was using didn't look safe. Surprised Penrith and Belmore weren't used for a few games also but I think they want to contain it to a few grounds to cut cost instead of moving around to much.
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
34,480
It's funny how Leichhardt Oval was deemed suitable for round 2 but not now but I think it was to do with people watching from over the back fences, one of the tempory scaffolding structures one group was using didn't look safe. Surprised Penrith and Belmore weren't used for a few games also but I think they want to contain it to a few grounds to cut cost instead of moving around to much.

Wouldn't it be mainly because it's old and the amenities for players and TV poor?
 

unforgiven

Bench
Messages
3,138
Wouldn't it be mainly because it's old and the amenities for players and TV poor?
Apparently it didn't meet the biosecurity protocols, though I've also heard the NRL wants to play in stadiums as it makes the game look more professional for overseas markets.
 
Messages
13,978
I'm no fan of his, but this article by Peter Fitzsimons in the Sydney Morning Herald gives an insight to the dispute from the referees side, which when you read it, makes you think if it was your employer doing something like this which effected you -

Unloved and under siege: 'selfish' NRL refs deserve better

by Peter FitzSimons

Columnist and author
May 20, 2020 — 7.30pm

How do you get to be a rugby league referee? Steve Roach once put forward a theory. "If you hold your 21st birthday party," he said, "and no one comes, then you become a ref to get back at the world."

Boom, boom.

And funny I should say that. For that general antipathy to the referees, just on principle, is one of the problems these crucial workers are now having in their dispute with the NRL – after ARL Commission chairman Peter V’landys' sudden announcement that the comp would resume with just one, instead of two, refs. For in the ensuing hullabaloo, the knee-jerk reaction of many seems to be to knee the refs in the groin, or at least nod vigorously and say this must be done.

Bugger the refs! Who needs ’em anyway?

The problem, of course, is that when you are dealing with real lives, and professional lives at that, it is surely fair to hear the refs' side of the story?

It is not a pretty one.

Two Fridays ago at 4.24pm, by the account of Silvio Del Vecchio, the chairman of the Professional Rugby League Match Officials – basically the boss of the NRL refs' union – he was at home in Bronte when his phone rang. It was the NRL’s boss of referees, Bernard Sutton, advising that there would a zoom call for all the refs in six minutes. At that very time, as it happened, a News Corp sports journo put out a tweet, bearing the news that they were all now told: "Hi everyone, we are going to one ref match plan."

Just like that? Just like that.

Del Vecchio and the referees were mortified. Over the next few hours, and ever since, Del Vecchio’s phone has run hot with referees whose blood runs cold. How could the NRL just make an announcement like that, with no consultation with them at all? How could they effectively cut their workforce in half, in such a high-handed manner?

On the Monday there was a meeting of representatives of the game's stakeholders: players, ex-players, commentators, coaches and CEOs.

Del Vecchio was not invited, though one of his refs, Matt Cecchin, was. By his account, at least, it didn’t matter: the stakeholders were all dead set against the move anyway.

The next day, Del Vecchio was asked by the head of football, Graeme Annersley did the refs want to make a submission to the ARL Commission?

Did they ever.

During the next 48 hours, Del Vecchio worked feverishly to put the submission together, pointing out the impact on the refs collectively, focusing on the NRL’s duty of care to the players, the match officials, what is in the best interests of the fans and sponsors, how the NRL would not get remotely close to the savings they hoped for and so forth. Their submission got nowhere, their proposals were rejected, as the commission insisted on going through with its plans.

Del Vecchio speaks about the whole thing with great passion.

"Such a move," he told this correspondent, "is outrageous! Our people have made life changes to do this job."

He cites four referees who have, on the basis of the commitments made to them, upended their whole lives – including changing cities and jobs – to pursue their dreams of being NRL referees, and have been successfully doing just that. But now what?

“Instead of 16 positions every weekend, there are only eight out in the middle. So for those not in the top eight, they will be relegated to the touchline. For some it might be five years before they get back to the middle. That is not what they were promised, what they built their lives on.”

What he most resents, however, is the way it was done.

"The whole thing," he said, was, "Slam, bam, no thank you ma’am. It’s offensive. Peter V’landys was being so dictatorial. It’s offensive."

You mentioned that.

You get the drift: things are getting heated.

Their best hope, Del Vecchio says, lies with the Fair Work Commission, now examining the whole affair.

"We have," he said, "an enterprise bargaining agreement, and what Mr V’landys doesn’t seem to realise is, it is enforceable. He didn’t even know it existed before he came rampaging in. He said they were going to save $3 million. Then he said $2.5 million. We showed it was half-a-million dollars. He said we have to listen to the fans, but the fans are with us, no matter what bogus poll he uses. He said it’s all about the wrestle in the tackle. We said can you show us the evidence of how only one ref will help that. We have yet to see it. The whole thing has been done without due process."

For the most part, the referees are copping it, probably losing the public relations battle, as the NRL eat their own and V’landys for one, keeps attacking, saying that while everyone else in the NRL is making sacrifices, the referees are the only ones who refuse to, and that they are being selfish.

Because of the campaign, Del Vecchio says his phone just keeps ringing with referees, who have a "high level of anxiety, trying to sort out their lives."

To this little black duck it seems obvious that the only leverage they have is to go on strike, but Del Vecchio says they couldn’t, even if they wanted to.

"We will stick with our enterprise bargaining agreement," he said, "and will go with what the Fair Work Commission says. We believe we have the law on our side."

Stay tuned, sports fans.
 

Vee

First Grade
Messages
5,189
I'm no fan of his, but this article by Peter Fitzsimons in the Sydney Morning Herald gives an insight to the dispute from the referees side, which when you read it, makes you think if it was your employer doing something like this which effected you -
Appreciate the heads-up as I routinely ignore his column, based as it is on running Rugby League down while simultaneously and incongruously trying to tie Onion's colours to Rugby League's mast.

Curious bi-polar on my part further clouds my thoughts, I am the biggest fan of his books, I have about ten of them. He can tell a story.
 

big hit!

Bench
Messages
3,452
Wouldn't it be mainly because it's old and the amenities for players and TV poor?

the original draw was made with fans in mind, and Leichhardt is the nostalgia game for Tigers supporters. you're right, change room facilities there, as well as Brookvale are small and antiquated.

4 team hubs in secure enclosed venues with decent facilities is the way to go for biosecurity. campbelltown's player amenities have been updated.
 

Chimp

Bench
Messages
2,532
I think they’ll struggle legally as they ones who are employed are going to remain employed, on the same financial terms, it’s just some will be working the sideline rather than the middle. As far as I’m aware, they’d only have a case of the NRL we’re changing their employment terms as a result of being relegated to the touch line. If they’re still being paid the same, with no guarantees on who is/isn’t in the middle (therefore a fair opportunity being presented to all to be the actual ref), I doubt the NRL have anything to worry about. It would be like an NRL coach deciding to only play 1 half back and play another ‘middle’ at 6... the other halfbacks in the squad would have no legal rights to strike/challenge that decision.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,925
I think they’ll struggle legally as they ones who are employed are going to remain employed, on the same financial terms, it’s just some will be working the sideline rather than the middle. As far as I’m aware, they’d only have a case of the NRL we’re changing their employment terms as a result of being relegated to the touch line. If they’re still being paid the same, with no guarantees on who is/isn’t in the middle (therefore a fair opportunity being presented to all to be the actual ref), I doubt the NRL have anything to worry about. It would be like an NRL coach deciding to only play 1 half back and play another ‘middle’ at 6... the other halfbacks in the squad would have no legal rights to strike/challenge that decision.

how can they be on the same terms if nrl is saving money?
 

Danish

Referee
Messages
31,853
What sort of agreement wouldn’t allow for a company to lay off staff in a crisis?

I suppose it’s just another geniused hangover from previous the administration
 

Storm80

Juniors
Messages
212
I think they’ll struggle legally as they ones who are employed are going to remain employed, on the same financial terms, it’s just some will be working the sideline rather than the middle. As far as I’m aware, they’d only have a case of the NRL we’re changing their employment terms as a result of being relegated to the touch line. If they’re still being paid the same, with no guarantees on who is/isn’t in the middle (therefore a fair opportunity being presented to all to be the actual ref), I doubt the NRL have anything to worry about. It would be like an NRL coach deciding to only play 1 half back and play another ‘middle’ at 6... the other halfbacks in the squad would have no legal rights to strike/challenge that decision.

https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/documents/agreements/fwa/ae503608.pdf

You make some valid points in that the EBA provides the NRL to use full time referees in any capacity they decide under clause 5.2.

The problem for the NRL is that clause 28 requires the NRL to consult referees about any decision to make a major change likely to have a significant change to match officials.

And any time the NRL fail to comply with consultation requirements under clause 28 provides the Referees the ability to lodge a dispute with FWC. An unresolved dispute then allows the FWC to arbitrate and make a binding decision on the parties under clause 29.

Ultimately, the NRL will get what they want. The problem remains the NRLs failure to adhere to the consultation process (which isn’t very difficult to comply with). Depending on who is arbitrating the matter, you could get a very interesting decision. It could be that the arbiter may rule the decision completely unlawful and two referees remain until the process in the EBA is adhered to.

This whole thing could have so easily been avoided if the NRL just consulted with the referees and followed clause 28 of the EBA. Covid is no excuse to fail to meet your legal obligations. It’s poor leadership and decision making by the ARLC and NRL.
 

Chimp

Bench
Messages
2,532
https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/documents/agreements/fwa/ae503608.pdf

You make some valid points in that the EBA provides the NRL to use full time referees in any capacity they decide under clause 5.2.

The problem for the NRL is that clause 28 requires the NRL to consult referees about any decision to make a major change likely to have a significant change to match officials.

And any time the NRL fail to comply with consultation requirements under clause 28 provides the Referees the ability to lodge a dispute with FWC. An unresolved dispute then allows the FWC to arbitrate and make a binding decision on the parties under clause 29.

Ultimately, the NRL will get what they want. The problem remains the NRLs failure to adhere to the consultation process (which isn’t very difficult to comply with). Depending on who is arbitrating the matter, you could get a very interesting decision. It could be that the arbiter may rule the decision completely unlawful and two referees remain until the process in the EBA is adhered to.

This whole thing could have so easily been avoided if the NRL just consulted with the referees and followed clause 28 of the EBA. Covid is no excuse to fail to meet your legal obligations. It’s poor leadership and decision making by the ARLC and NRL.

That very clause around consultation does say the NRL should consult ‘as soon as practicable after making the definitive decision’. That’s open to conjecture around what is practicable, and it being leaked by someone who was part of the decision making to the media isn’t ideal, but hardly worth all the furore over.
Ultimately, the NRL didn’t need to consult prior to making the decision, and did set up sessions to share the output (based on what we’re being told).
Not my idea of reasonable consultation, but given the crisis, the myriad of more significant issues PVL has had to deal with, a slight glitch in consultation that doesn’t appear to be outside of contractual obligations isn’t crime of the century. In my opinion, the refs are making a bigger deal of this than they need to - a symptom maybe of them getting above their stations?
 

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