2023-2028 next tv deal discussion

[The_Wookie]

So it looks like that Nine have got a 64 million reduction for this year. As Perth red stated Nine Pay the NRL 185 Million pa, therefor 185- 64 ( the stock exchange advice ) Final amount equals 121 million to the NRL for the 2020 season.
Perth red quote

Ch9 had a contract worth $185mill a year (inc contra) to the nrl, Fox/Telstra $175 mill (inc contra)
let’s see what they end up paying for the rest of it.

Contra was 20 million pa approximate; so lets divided that 10 each to Foxtel/Nine.

According to this they were due to pay 115m this year, 120m next year and 125m in 2022. Some of their payment was taken up front.

Sources say Nine, the owners of this masthead, wants to cap its annual rights fees for the sport at $90m to $100m. Nine is this year paying $115m for NRL rights, a figure that will rise to $120m next year and $125m in 2022.

ref: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/ni...with-cap-on-rights-value-20200510-p54rl6.html

 

[Perth Red]

its 119m out of 360m due to be paid in the next 3 year - just under 30%

isnt it $119mill reduction from a contracted $517.5mill cash original

ie deal was $185mill a year - $12.5mill contra = $172.5mill cash x 3 years = $517.5mill
Reduction is 2020 $64mill + 21&22 $55mill = $119mill
Means a new 3 year contract worth $398.5mill

 

[Perth Red]

According to this they were due to pay 115m this year, 120m next year and 125m in 2022. Some of their payment was taken up front.


ref: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/ni...with-cap-on-rights-value-20200510-p54rl6.html

that must be wrong. The deal was $185mill a year inc contra

 

[The_Wookie]

that must be wrong. The deal was $185mill a year inc contra

Not if it was front loaded.

 

[Perth Red]

Not if it was front loaded.

fromt loaded ( I presume you mean the advanced payment they made) or not doesn’t change the annual value of the deal. Spread over 5 years. Total value minus the new discount.

$64mill this year seems a massive discount considering we’ve only lost 3 or 4 full rounds in reality.

 

[The unknown]

It’s almost as if some worldwide pandemic has effected the re-negotiations of the broadcast rights.

Vlandys is a terrible leader for not landing a 60 billion 1 year tv deal!

 

[LeagueXIII]

No V'landys lacks vision.

Don't think for one minute V'landys just went door to door knocking on the PM's door and demanding league back. Murdoch and other influential people would have played a huge hand. Foxtel had more to lose. They are just happy to give the perception it was all him.

 

[Perth Red]

It’s almost as if some worldwide pandemic has effected the re-negotiations of the broadcast rights.

Vlandys is a terrible leader for not landing a 60 billion 1 year tv deal!

I’m Half way through paying my car off. Maybe I should ring the dealer and ask for 20% reduction in rest of of the two and half year payments, you know covid and all that?

 

[typicalfan]

No V'landys lacks vision.

Don't think for one minute V'landys just went door to door knocking on the PM's door and demanding league back. Murdoch and other influential people would have played a huge hand. Foxtel had more to lose. They are just happy to give the perception it was all him.

Announces a return date that people universally scoff at and nails it and he lacks vision?

If it was more the work of Murdoch then why hasn't the AFL started back, surely it would be in their interest to get both going at once. And you think Scomo has time to worry about Rugby League starting?

PVL potentially saved Rugby League as we know it as well as the broadcasters, remember Ch 9 were allegedly looking to cancel the season and were bagging the NRL.

 

[Starkers]

Hard to know if this Ch9 decision will age well. 2 years with a broadcast revenue cut seems premature to me. But I think everyone has to acknowledge that advertising revenue will most likely fall across those two years also. So this is just a reflection of that.

Will it drop by more than the cut given is the question? If it does Ch9 can't come squealing back for more, that's for sure. In some ways V'Landys has given them enough rope to hang themselves on over the next 2.5 years of the deal i.e. improve your broadcast and rebuild the audience or face losing the sport in the next round of negotiations.

The NRL now has 2.5 years to create competitive tension between Ch9 and Ch10 is another way to look at it. I expect V'Landys will create that one way or another.

Foxtel is separate. It's probably a fair deal. What angers most of us is that AFL got a generous one last time around and the NRL didn't. Will that carry forward? It can't in my view. The tables have turned in so far as the NRL has dealt first in this round and unless AFL suddenly becomes more commercially important they will get less by virtue of Foxtel simply not having the money.

As I have mentioned before, this puts non-broadcast revenue firmly in the spotlight now. By all reports Abdo is going well, but it's going to get harder now. Like all advertising revenue, those rivers will slow also.

Bring on the next two weeks of free air and enjoy it everyone. Rugby League has never had a moment like this. You gotta sing when you're winning.

 

[taipan]

That narrative was spewed by a media with self interest as their main objective to remove men who were willing to take the game in another direction. Alot of people here have soaked up all this negativity as fact when it is far from it when you eventually hear the other side.

Doesn't the carry on from ALL news ltd associated journos create an ounce of cynicism.

It was spelt out by V'Landys. He stated the money that showed on the books as being on hand, wasn't the reality because of the money owed.That's why I'm suggesting, the need to secure a loan for $250m..The $250m was well publicised not only by News.
I put it to you ,is V'Landys lying? If he's lying on matters such as this, the board would hardly warm to him.

You think I lick the boots of News journalists, when I constantly skewer Buzz,Hooper,and Kent? The only guy worth his salt is Brett read from the Australian and Riccio.
I try to do a damn side more research by reading other publications and electronic media comments.If I relied solely on News Ltd (and I've flicked Foxtel) I'd end up looking like Buzz.The fin Review is also good at times re sport finances.

I repeat one more time, everyone in business including the NRL has self interest ,to make a surplus and remain in business.Call it agendas whatever.Media does it with scoops, scandals and at times bullish*t.I've been around long enough to at least pick some of the BS they throw up.

 

[Steel Saints]

PVL has not only saved rugby league (fingers crossed no cases amongst the players), but he has also saved Fox. If there was another two or three months of no live sport, then who knows, Fox could've been haemorrhaging to the point of no return.

PVL has done all of the leg work to get the game back on the field. By comparison, the AFL were relatively quiet. They may have done work behind the scenes themselves, however, PVL was front and centre in the media everyday. He coped criticism daily, particularly the ones from the south.

I just hope that when Fox renegotiates with the AFL, they should remember that there has been alot of redundancies at News Corp and Fox, and the NRL brought back live sport earlier than the AFL. Fox in the past has thrown a good generous amount of money towards them. But now it is time for Fox to be tight with their budget.

 

[The unknown]

I’m Half way through paying my car off. Maybe I should ring the dealer and ask for 20% reduction in rest of of the two and half year payments, you know covid and all that?

Lol that isn’t even remotely comparable and you know it

 

[Perth Red]

It was spelt out by V'Landys. He stated the money that showed on the books as being on hand, wasn't the reality because of the money owed.That's why I'm suggesting, the need to secure a loan for $250m..The $250m was well publicised not only by News.
I put it to you ,is V'Landys lying? If he's lying on matters such as this, the board would hardly warm to him.

You think I lick the boots of News journalists, when I constantly skewer Buzz,Hooper,and Kent? The only guy worth his salt is Brett read from the Australian and Riccio.
I try to do a damn side more research by reading other publications and electronic media comments.If I relied solely on News Ltd (and I've flicked Foxtel) I'd end up looking like Buzz.The fin Review is also good at times re sport finances.

I repeat one more time, everyone in business including the NRL has self interest ,to make a surplus and remain in business.Call it agendas whatever.Media does it with scoops, scandals and at times bullish*t.I've been around long enough to at least pick some of the BS they throw up.

That doesn't tally with what the NRL's books say. Either the commission, CEO, CFO and auditors colluded to falsify the books or Vlandys is misreading or misleading. It clearly says in the books that it was a $100mill advancement on the 2018- tv deal and that it is being paid back by deferred payments. If you go back through the annual reports you can see a $50million advanced tv payment was made in 2016 and same again in 2017. This is reflected in notes about reduced payment of tv revenue in 18&19 reports. So it isnt a loan and didnt all have to be paid back this year. There is clearly a payback schedule of deferred payments over the life of the contract. ergo the $130million surplus cash on hand didnt need to be used to pay back a "loan" this year at all.

What the game actually had was $120mill cash (after it called in its debtors) and $49mill left in deferred payments from the $100mill advance according to reports. No reason those deferred payments werent paid off as per the agreed schedule over the rest of the contract meaning the NRL did in fact have $120mill cash in hand to see it through (plus $6mill in the clubs bail out fund)

The 250mill line of credit was just in case. Just in case the season didnt get back this year, just in case the tv negotiations ended up in court etc. I suspect most major sports have done the same, just in case. We wont know how much they have had to draw down on that till next annual report.

 

[Foreign Legion]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...s/news-story/46d468346cc346ff14f65af148d54b78

 

[T-Boon]

We should have said to nine if you want to pay us less cash then you need to make up for it in contra and we will take Gould shutting his face as contra.

 

[taipan]

That doesn't tally with what the NRL's books say. Either the commission, CEO, CFO and auditors colluded to falsify the books or Vlandys is misreading or misleading. It clearly says in the books that it was a $100mill advancement on the 2018- tv deal and that it is being paid back by deferred payments. If you go back through the annual reports you can see a $50million advanced tv payment was made in 2016 and same again in 2017. This is reflected in notes about reduced payment of tv revenue in 18&19 reports. So it isnt a loan and didnt all have to be paid back this year. There is clearly a payback schedule of deferred payments over the life of the contract. ergo the $130million surplus cash on hand didnt need to be used to pay back a "loan" this year at all.

What the game actually had was $120mill cash (after it called in its debtors) and $49mill left in deferred payments from the $100mill advance according to reports. No reason those deferred payments werent paid off as per the agreed schedule over the rest of the contract meaning the NRL did in fact have $120mill cash in hand to see it through (plus $6mill in the clubs bail out fund)

The 250mill line of credit was just in case. Just in case the season didnt get back this year, just in case the tv negotiations ended up in court etc. I suspect most major sports have done the same, just in case. We wont know how much they have had to draw down on that till next annual report.

The question is if we had the money cash reserves stated, why the need for such a loan ?The life of the contract finishes in 2022,2 years hence ,not much time wise.
I never stated it had to be paid back this year, but I would suggest not later than the end of the current contracts.
I've been through the NRL reports year after year printing some out also, and TBF I'm sick of it.You can continue to throw up these figures, the facts are we had SFA assets ,only digital looked like growing into something worthwhile.

We were in trouble this year already ,with 8 weeks loss of revenue.Weekend games are supposedly worth $13m from broadcasters, and who knows what from Telstra and other NRL sponsors.Tv sponsors also won't pay for non appearance of their ads.It's a vicious circle.

V'Landys a chartered accountant outlined the position we were in, the ARLC would be aware of the fragility of the code.We couldn't get a loan from local banks, that also says something.
If we owned a $200m stadium or buildings ,different story.

Money that was supposed to go to players funds at H/O at times did not .Was that one of the reasons Todd got the heave ho?

Ch9 (publicly known as struggling)was prepared to pull the pin ,so they must have had legal advice they were on some sort of firm ground to do so, because of the change in broadcasting and loss of broadcasting.The question is the pandemic under insurance terms "an act of God",when either way it came from a Lab or from people eating wild critters.Man made.

You see we don't know the inner workings of what went on in negotiations.What we do know is the comp stopped and no money was forthcoming, never happened before.

I'm concerned with the now and the future, some of the issues that happened in past years leave me flabbergasted.

I also await the reports for 2020/1/2 and based on those results, I'll form my opinion of V'Landys/Abdo etc.
The thing is we got the game up and running, when the cynics from other codes said we were arrogant and it wouldn't happen, there was a rule change and one ref last night worked IMO extremely well.Wrestling was absent or punished ,the game flowed.It went to a stack of countries.So at least we're off to a great start.

ANZ Bank have stated in latter to customers ,they have no idea how long the economic effects of this pandemic are going to last, with tens of thousands of loan customers seeking deferrals, dividends on hold.
Australian newspaper: Brace for negative super returns.
News axing 100 regional newspapers.
Multiplex wields axe on jobs as project pipeline declines.
Optus expecting a bad hit in LH 2020. The list goes on.
Every day I get the paper ,not the Telegraph, there are bad news stories on the economy.The recession "we had to have" in the end 20th Century ,the 2008GFC are not within a bull's roar of this pandemic result.The huge debt we hav lumbered up by Govt, is going to take years to repay.
Businesses are going to be lean and mean or they too will go down the tube.

 

[Steel Saints]

One thing that needs to be considered is that in the Nine statement, it did say "Nine expects a P & L benefit, resulting from changes in rights fees and associated production and service arrangements"

So part of the savings could be production costs.

 

[The_Wookie]

 

[Perth Red]

The question is if we had the money cash reserves stated, why the need for such a loan ?T
I never stated it had to be paid back this year, but I would suggest not later than the end of the current contracts.
I've been through the NRL reports year after year printing some out also, and TBF I'm sick of it.You can continue to throw up these figures, the facts are we had SFA assets ,only digital looked like growing into something worthwhile.

We were in trouble this year already ,with 8 weeks loss of revenue.Weekend games are supposedly worth $13m from broadcasters, and who knows what from Telstra and other NRL sponsors.Tv sponsors also won't pay for non appearance of their ads.It's a vicious circle.

V'Landys a chartered accountant outlined the position we were in, the ARLC would be aware of the fragility of the code.We couldn't get a loan from local banks, that also says something.
If we owned a $200m stadium or buildings ,different story.

.

Glad we are in agreement that the advance wasnt a loan requiring payment this year, but was in fact an advance that was being paid through deferred annual tv contract payment. Which makes the argument that the NRL didnt have cash reserves to the tune of $126million false. Only scenario that changes is if both Fix and Nine contracts are torn up and they demand the $49mill remaining from the advance payment back, a very unlikely scenario.


Ive stated why, no-one knew in March how long shut down would go for. $126mill cash would have probably got us to end of season, maybe. The loan was a back up. AFL had bigger cash reserve but got a line of credit for $650mill, same reason.

Yes we have no assets, why? Because the money has been spent on the clubs and players and to a lessor degree grassroots and non media revenue activities. Smith knew we needed a savings fund to invest or keep for a rainy day, he had two years of surpluses building it up, Greenberg/commission came in and spent it, and then some. By 2018 they had decided once again they needed it and Greenberg/Commission have had two more years of healthy surpluses. Problem is whenever the NRL generates a surplus the clubs want it or the NRL feels obliged to spend it on grassroots!
The only Asset I can see AFL has, despite much greater revenue, is Marvel stadium and they got that at a knock down price from the Vic govt and borrowed $200mill to buy it. I'm sure if NSW Govt offered Bankwest to NRL for 1/2 its value they would snap it up as well! NONE of the other sports codes in the country, or around the world for that matter, have any real assets either, its not something most sports bodies do beyond a stadium or offices for their primary use.
Not surprised we couldnt get a loan here, between the games reputation which gets tarnished in the media consistently and the fact that most revenue is game generated, and there was no games it wasnt a safe investment for the bank to make. I've heard conflicting reports on how AFL got their line of credit, some say due to Marvel stadium (though this still has 40% mortgaged) whilst Eddie Macguire let slip that The Vic Govt had underwritten the credit.

Back to the facts: The game is losing at least $27.5mill a year (potentially $64mill this year though that figure cant be corroborated) from the Ch9 deal.
NRL is refusing to share what the Fox deal is, first time in forever they are refusing to say what they have got. I wonder why?