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Rank the Brisbane bids

Messages
12,755
I think you are right - all NRL matches under 20k. Interesting afl does about the same - 29k - in sydney despite all money pumped into clubs.
Did The Great Dane really say the Storm have grown the game exponentially in Melbourne?

Ha ha ha ha ha!

3,500 registered players and an average of 25k viewers on FTA TV when they play, after 22 years of manufactured success, isn't the definition of exponential growth.

No matter how TGD and mongoose try to spin it, the fact remains the only thing saving the Storm is their supporter base in Queensland. No wonder they don't want Bris 3 and 4. Having 2 games a week at Lang Park would pretty much make the Storm irrelevant up here. 1 on Friday and 1 on Sunday. At some stage they're going to fall down the ladder and when they do their fair weather fans will drift away.
 
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Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,925
:rolleyes:

The 2 NFL conferences are broken down into divisions.

What you call them in England and what we call them here in Australia and America probably differ.

We have trucks, you have lorries.

What you're rambling on about here is wishful thinking. You're never going to get those ratings from Perth, Adelaide or Melbourne, regardless of which channel RL ia broadcast on.

Lions average 40k on 7mate in Brisbane. I think Suns average 24k in the same market.

What makes you think the smaller markets of Perth and Adelaide are going to get 2 and a half times that number to watch an NRL team?

Melb Storm only average 25k in Melb metro.

Origin isn't an NRL event. It is also the highest drawing RL event outside of the GF. If the premier event of Origin can only draw 100k in Perth, which is less than the 107k average for Brisbane when no Queensland team plays, what makes you think you can get that number for an NRL club?


Has it occurred to you that the ARLC didn't want a second Brisbane team at the time?

You can’t say that for certain until we try it. They could start by putting nrl on the main Ch9 on a Sunday, there’s no risk to nine as no ones watching the sht they show on a Sunday afternoon anyway.

if Ch9 wanted it, and were willing pay for it the arlc would have brought a second Brisbane club in 2013, or 2018, why wouldn’t they?


Did The Great Dane really say the Storm have grown the game exponentially in Melbourne?

well they’ve gone from zero people going to RL games to 19k people going to games. Zero people watching nrl to 400k tuning in to a grand final. What would you call that?
 
Messages
12,755
No other sporting organization in the world is spending anywhere near the money propping up teams. GC have cost 250 million since inception the other club probably the same. Currently Swans & Lions are demanding extra funding.
NRL should not do this.
NRL don't have the funds available.
 
Messages
12,755
You can’t say that for certain until we try it. They could start by putting nrl on the main Ch9 on a Sunday, there’s no risk to nine as no ones watching the sht they show on a Sunday afternoon anyway.

If the Storm only draw 25k in Melbourne metro on 9Gem and that's way more than watch when they're not playing, what makes you think they will get more than 20k for Bulldogs vs Wests?

Whatever Ch9 are showing on their main channel may not be rating its arse off, but it probably gets more than an RL game would. Maybe the bias I spoke about earlier from the big suits is at play. Who knows.

if Ch9 wanted it, and were willing pay for it the arlc would have brought a second Brisbane club in 2013, or 2018, why wouldn’t they?

What if the ARLC were worried that Bris 2 would kill the Melbourne Storm?

Only 25k people from Melbourne tune in to watch them play on Ch9, compared to 150k in Brisbane. The average audience in Brisbane when Cowboys or Titans are playing is 157k. That would indicate Brisbane has adopted Melbourne as Queensland's 4th team. Add Brisbane 2 and at least some, if not all, of those people in Brisbane calling themselves Storm fans will jump across to the new team. Cronk, Inglis, Slater and Folau are no longer at the Storm and Smith is nearing the end. No reason to support them anymore when they're an ordinary team with no stars from Queensland and Brisbane 2 to support.

Maybe the NRL are confident the Storm can survive on their own two feet now they get 18k to their games. They weren't getting that when Gyngell made that comment about Bris 2.

News Ltd still owned Storm back then, didn't they?

I can see News Ltd, the owners of Broncos and Storm, not wanting Bris 2 to come along and make life difficult for them.

Maybe V'Landys is going to cut the umbilical cord between the Storm and NRL, which News Ltd forced upon the game when they got 50% control of it in 1998, because he has integrity.

well they’ve gone from zero people going to RL games to 19k people going to games. Zero people watching nrl to 400k tuning in to a grand final. What would you call that?
The VRL existed back in the 1980s, so people were playing the game. There's only 3,500 players in 2020. That's not exponential growth.

1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096 etc is exponential. They've gone from a few hundred to 3,500 in 22 years.

The Storm didn't go from 0 to 19,000 overnight. First it was 11,000, then it dropped to 9,000 and slowly crept up as the team finished in the top 4 each year because the refs allow them to gain an illegal advantage in the ruck (Smith), kick and elbow players every game (Slater), sprint off their defensive line before the ball has cleared the ruck.

When Smith got it in the nuts at Kogorah he was grinding his elbow into the back of Latimore's neck to prevent him from getting to his feet. Karma got the little shit because Latimore couldn't see what he was doing as Smith was forcing his head towards the ground, so Jeremy put arm out to push Smith away and got him right in the nuts. It should have been a penalty to St George, but the ref allowed Melbourne to do what they always do in every ruck. This time it came back to bite the Storm in the arse, as Smith keeled over like "man getting hit by football" in The Simpsons, and the dummy half ran through the vacant marker position to score the funniest try in RL history. The rest of the Storm players stood there pointing at Smith with looked at the ref because their little stunt didn't work. Stiff shit.
 
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The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,778
Self evident means you don't have stats to back this up
Good luck finding old ratings, participation numbers, and general coverage of RL out of Melbourne from 25 years ago.

The only hard numbers we do have out of Melbourne are attendance, and they've slowly grown from roughly 10k in the early years to roughly 20k now, i.e. more or less doubled.
http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/teams/melbourne-storm/seasons.html

But yeah it is self evident to anybody that has spent anytime in Melbourne prior to the Storm's admittance into the NRL and after that the sport has grown exponentially in Melbourne since their admittance.

Melbourne was literally a dead zone for RL prior to the Storm, you'd be lucky to hear anything about it in the news, and I wouldn't be surprised if participation numbers were roughly 1000 or less prior to 98.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,778
I think you are right - all NRL matches under 20k. Interesting afl does about the same - 29k - in sydney despite all money pumped into clubs.
How was the AFL's numbers in Sydney before the Swans relocated, I bet they weren't good!

Are you seriously going to argue that the Sydney Swans have been a failure?
 
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The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,778
No other sporting organization in the world is spending anywhere near the money propping up teams. GC have cost 250 million since inception the other club probably the same. Currently Swans & Lions are demanding extra funding.
NRL should not do this.
Yep and just like they did with the Swans they'll keep sinking money into them until a generation or two passes and the clubs are cemented into the their city's culture, because they know that in the long run they'll make back every cent and more.
Every criticism of the AFL's expansion, and potential NRL expansion, that you are making was made about the Swans for 20 years, and look at them now!

Besides NRL expansion shouldn't cost anywhere near what it's cost the AFL in Western Sydney, Brisbane, and on the GC.

For a start the AFL's expansion and ownership model is completely different from the NRL's, it costs roughly half what it costs to run an AFL club to run an NRL club, the NRL doesn't have a variable grant scheme like the AFL, and unlike the AFL in Western Sydney and on the GC they are looking to expand into markets where there's at least some sort of proven demand instead of going in cold and trying to build demand.

On top of that there're multiple very rich people/consortium begging to back clubs in Perth and Brisbane (and I'm sure you could find similar investors willing to back clubs in other target cities), and there's no reason to believe that the NRL would need to invest heavily into the expansion clubs aside from money invested into the regions grassroots, which they should be doing anyway, and the annual grants that all clubs get.
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,342
The evidence said Melbourne have been adopted by Queenslanders as their fourth team because there's a void up here. That's why they rate well. Now you're trying to twist it around to make out the same thing will happen with Adelaide and Perth.

I showed you the ratings in Brisbane when Titans or Cowboys are playing, and they're not even from Brisbane.

Brisbane Ratings

Broncos 173k
Cowboys or Titans 157k
Everyone else 107k

If you're arguing that North Queensland and Gold Coast will draw better ratings in Brisbane than Brisbane 3 and 4 then you're living in a fantasy world and there's no hope for you.

You and The Great Dane are the biggest hypocrites on this board, supporting a team that draws some of the worst TV ratings nationally, according to the source you provided, yet here you are demanding that the NRL get rid of teams in Sydney that rate better than them and hostily demanding the NRL not introduce Brisbane 3 and 4 because you've both deluded yourselves into thinking that teams in Adelaide and Perth will create more viewers. You have no evidence that Perth and Adelaide will be a success, yet you arrogantly talk about their admission as if it will be the best thing since sliced bread, and like an ideologue, pretend that Brisbane 3 and 4 will not rate well in Brisbane. No one in the industry agrees with your crackpot theory, but the pair of you stick by it through thick and thin. It's insane.

I've never called for Sydney teams to be cut and I even admitted that the Raiders don't bring in great crowds or TV ratings. The only thing I have argued is that the NRL doesn't need more smaller suburban teams or teams in regional cities that are only 100km from Sydney, especially when you have entire cities like Perth without a club.
 

greenBV4

Bench
Messages
2,508
If the Storm only draw 25k in Melbourne metro on 9Gem and that's way more than watch when they're not playing, what makes you think they will get more than 20k for Bulldogs vs Wests?

Whatever Ch9 are showing on their main channel may not be rating its arse off, but it probably gets more than an RL game would. Maybe the bias I spoke about earlier from the big suits is at play. Who knows.



What if the ARLC were worried that Bris 2 would kill the Melbourne Storm?

Only 25k people from Melbourne tune in to watch them play on Ch9, compared to 150k in Brisbane. The average audience in Brisbane when Cowboys or Titans are playing is 157k. That would indicate Brisbane has adopted Melbourne as Queensland's 4th team. Add Brisbane 2 and at least some, if not all, of those people in Brisbane calling themselves Storm fans will jump across to the new team. Cronk, Inglis, Slater and Folau are no longer at the Storm and Smith is nearing the end. No reason to support them anymore when they're an ordinary team with no stars from Queensland and Brisbane 2 to support.

Maybe the NRL are confident the Storm can survive on their own two feet now they get 18k to their games. They weren't getting that when Gyngell made that comment about Bris 2.

News Ltd still owned Storm back then, didn't they?

I can see News Ltd, the owners of Broncos and Storm, not wanting Bris 2 to come along and make life difficult for them.

Maybe V'Landys is going to cut the umbilical cord between the Storm and NRL, which News Ltd forced upon the game when they got 50% control of it in 1998, because he has integrity.


The VRL existed back in the 1980s, so people were playing the game. There's only 3,500 players in 2020. That's not exponential growth.

1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096 etc is exponential. They've gone from a few hundred to 3,500 in 22 years.

The Storm didn't go from 0 to 19,000 overnight. First it was 11,000, then it dropped to 9,000 and slowly crept up as the team finished in the top 4 each year because the refs allow them to gain an illegal advantage in the ruck (Smith), kick and elbow players every game (Slater), sprint off their defensive line before the ball has cleared the ruck.

When Smith got it in the nuts at Kogorah he was grinding his elbow into the back of Latimore's neck to prevent him from getting to his feet. Karma got the little shit because Latimore couldn't see what he was doing as Smith was forcing his head towards the ground, so Jeremy put arm out to push Smith away and got him right in the nuts. It should have been a penalty to St George, but the ref allowed Melbourne to do what they always do in every ruck. This time it came back to bite the Storm in the arse, as Smith keeled over like "man getting hit by football" in The Simpsons, and the dummy half ran through the vacant marker position to score the funniest try in RL history. The rest of the Storm players stood there pointing at Smith with looked at the ref because their little stunt didn't work. Stiff shit.
Storm vs Raiders the highest fox game of the round? But nah none watches them..

GEM Markets up by 10%? But nah the games not growing outside of NSW/Qld..

Saturday nights clash between the Raiders and Storm was the highest rating NRL game on Foxleague with 314,000 viewers.

For the NRL, broadcast averages across both free and subscription television are down -4.74% to an average of 463,000 per game. FTA averages are down 4.33% to an average of 580,000 per game, with both the major Brisbane and Sydney markets down, while the three GEM cities are up 10.94%.
 
Messages
12,755
Storm vs Raiders the highest fox game of the round? But nah none watches them..

GEM Markets up by 10%? But nah the games not growing outside of NSW/Qld..
Storm vs Raiders was the match of the round.

I wouldn't get too excited about Adelaide, Melbourne and Perth.

Thursday Cowboys v Roosters

Metro 314k (Syd 194k Melb 4k Bris 103k Adel 5k Perth 8k)

The combined total for the fumbleball cities was 17k. 10% of that is 1,700.

The fact Melb was outrated by Adelaide proves RL will never work in Victoria.

Brisbane has turned off to some degree since the state's two main teams are playing like shit. The lack of effort from Cowboys and Broncos, especially in defence, has really rubbed fans the wrong way. If players couldn't be bothered putting in an effort, 50k fans have said they will watch something else. I watch my Cowboys from kick-off to full time, but I don't blame those who cannot watch the tripe they're serving up at the moment.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,925
Most RL fans in those cities watch on Fox or Kayo, they gave up on Ch9 a decade ago when we used to have to wait until midnight for the game, and then it was hit and miss if they even showed it.Other than SOO and GF I havent watched a game of NRL on Ch9 for 15 years!

I do wonder if there is an under the table agreement between Fox and Ch9 to treat the game so badly in those states that it drives viewers to Fox? Only reason I could think why Ch9 wouldn't try and build an audience, especially in a dead time slot like a Sunday afternoon.

So Brisbane is full of fickle fans? There was me thinking it was only Melbourne you were concerned about turning off the club lol
god forbid the Brisbane team should have a long run of sht years!
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,778
Most RL fans in those cities watch on Fox or Kayo, they gave up on Ch9 a decade ago when we used to have to wait until midnight for the game, and then it was hit and miss if they even showed it.Other than SOO and GF I havent watched a game of NRL on Ch9 for 15 years!

I do wonder if there is an under the table agreement between Fox and Ch9 to treat the game so badly in those states that it drives viewers to Fox? Only reason I could think why Ch9 wouldn't try and build an audience, especially in a dead time slot like a Sunday afternoon.

So Brisbane is full of fickle fans? There was me thinking it was only Melbourne you were concerned about turning off the club lol
god forbid the Brisbane team should have a long run of sht years!
It's not just those cities, try being a Raiders, Titans, Knights, Warriors, etc, fan without Fox/Kayo, you'd only catch a few games a season lol.
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
5,858
How was the AFL's numbers in Sydney before the Swans relocated, I bet they weren't good!

Are you seriously going to argue that the Sydney Swans have been a failure?
Swans popularity overblown - TV ratings show little widespread support. If you live in Sydney you'll know team popular in trendy affluent eastern suburbs but little place else.
Further afl hasn't let team fall to bottom of table. Last year was first losing season in long time - support yet to be put to test
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
5,858
Yep and just like they did with the Swans they'll keep sinking money into them until a generation or two passes and the clubs are cemented into the their city's culture, because they know that in the long run they'll make back every cent and more.
Every criticism of the AFL's expansion, and potential NRL expansion, that you are making was made about the Swans for 20 years, and look at them now!

Besides NRL expansion shouldn't cost anywhere near what it's cost the AFL in Western Sydney, Brisbane, and on the GC.

For a start the AFL's expansion and ownership model is completely different from the NRL's, it costs roughly half what it costs to run an AFL club to run an NRL club, the NRL doesn't have a variable grant scheme like the AFL, and unlike the AFL in Western Sydney and on the GC they are looking to expand into markets where there's at least some sort of proven demand instead of going in cold and trying to build demand.

On top of that there're multiple very rich people/consortium begging to back clubs in Perth and Brisbane (and I'm sure you could find similar investors willing to back clubs in other target cities), and there's no reason to believe that the NRL would need to invest heavily into the expansion clubs aside from money invested into the regions grassroots, which they should be doing anyway, and the annual grants that all clubs get.
Swans still on 7mate after 40 years. Decade in suns & 2nd Sydney team still play to empty stadiums. Beside abc & channrl 7 sport gets no coverage in Sydney media. Given money spent it's been a failure
 

greenBV4

Bench
Messages
2,508
Nothing channel 9 or anyone involved with them says in should be taken as what is best for the game, I'm convinced everything they do is for the sole purpose of lowering the rights deal, they have made it quite clear they can't afford to pay more

Regardless of what channel the game is on, they cut every corner possible in the broadcasting of it, ever wanted to watch replays and post match discussions? Don't try watch a game in Melbourne, it'll cut to a movie from the 80s the second the siren blows, sometimes they decide you don't even want to watch Golden Point extra time
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,342
Most RL fans in those cities watch on Fox or Kayo, they gave up on Ch9 a decade ago when we used to have to wait until midnight for the game, and then it was hit and miss if they even showed it.Other than SOO and GF I havent watched a game of NRL on Ch9 for 15 years!

I do wonder if there is an under the table agreement between Fox and Ch9 to treat the game so badly in those states that it drives viewers to Fox? Only reason I could think why Ch9 wouldn't try and build an audience, especially in a dead time slot like a Sunday afternoon.

So Brisbane is full of fickle fans? There was me thinking it was only Melbourne you were concerned about turning off the club lol
god forbid the Brisbane team should have a long run of sht years!

Could be, 7 does the same thing with AFL in NSW and QLD.
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,342
Ppl actually pumping storm saying they are most watched team in NRL - storm are invisible in Melbourne!!!
Fact they have such strong support in qld shows value of that market

and the Storm bring in an audience from Victoria (yes a small one) that wouldn't otherwise be there. I believe the Storm presence also gives SOO and the GF bigger ratings in Melbourne. If there was no Storm I doubt that State of Origin or Grand final would even be shown live in Melbourne. NRL wouldn't get as much money from 9 and fox... Ponga, Mitchell, Taumololo etc go play Rugby cause the game can't afford them.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,778
Swans popularity overblown - TV ratings show little widespread support. If you live in Sydney you'll know team popular in trendy affluent eastern suburbs but little place else.
Further afl hasn't let team fall to bottom of table. Last year was first losing season in long time - support yet to be put to test
You are blatantly trying to dodge the point!

Has Aussie Rules not grown significantly in Sydney since the Swans relocated to Sydney?
Swans still on 7mate after 40 years. Decade in suns & 2nd Sydney team still play to empty stadiums. Beside abc & channrl 7 sport gets no coverage in Sydney media. Given money spent it's been a failure
The Swans are easily the biggest sports club in Sydney and bigger than any NRL club.

They had 61,912 members last year and have averaged between 25-35k attendance over the past 20 years. Those numbers easily dwarf their closest competition in Sydney.

Also despite what you say it's my experience that the Swans (and AFL in general) are given strong coverage in Sydney and the rest of NSW and the ACT, and that they get that coverage on all channels and in all major newspapers. Their coverage is so strong that it has often been said on this site that despite the NRL being their product Nine seem to spend more time promoting the AFL than the NRL.
 

RedVee

First Grade
Messages
5,986
Swans popularity overblown - TV ratings show little widespread support. If you live in Sydney you'll know team popular in trendy affluent eastern suburbs but little place else.
Further afl hasn't let team fall to bottom of table. Last year was first losing season in long time - support yet to be put to test
If pressed (eg talking to Vic’s for business) I would say I support the Swans. But in reality I never watch them or go to any games. Don’t plan to either except if they make a GF again I guess.
 

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