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Rank the Brisbane bids

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,771
This might be on a different tangent, but tv as in both fta and Foxtel seems like a dying medium, I haven’t watched fta except for rugby league in 8 years almost, I’m 32 and most of my friends sit between 23 and mid thirties and none of us watch tv, everything we watch is on a streaming service. I’m at hospital at the moment and they have a tv in the common area and the show that was on was bachelor in paradise followed by rbt. fta seems today to be filler for ads directed at baby boomers. And streaming services have all but rendered Foxtel obsolete because you can choose which episode you want to watch. I grew up on fta and stuff like the footy show and waiting till 7:30 for the simpsons but I feel
like blockbuster streaming has rendered the concept of tv dead. I honestly think the nrl should look to invest into Kayo, maybe not next rights deal but once you can get decent internet to stream in woop woop ditch the deadweight that is fta and cable tv
Of course TV is a dying medium, but until streaming is offering a similar amount or more for sports content as broadcast TV the big sports leagues are going to stick with TV as their main platform.
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
5,337
haha, we were confident in 2012 that WA would get a team, and again in 2016 lol.
Hes talking it up, there is little confidence and what there is is based on some throw away lines from Vlandys that has absolutely no strategy, planning or business case behind them.

I know what you mean, as a fellow expansionist I've been constantly frustrated since the turn of the century (returning a team to the Gold Coast isn't really expansion). I was just very curious to hear his comments about the NRL looking more likely to go to 16 instead of 18 based on conversations he's had with them.

On one hand, great to see they've learnt the lessons from 1995, on the other hand, it feels like we are just going to add a second Brisbane team, cut a Sydney team and then shut up shop in terms of expansion for a while. Although we'll take a second team and it is long overdue and will probably be fantastic for the game if done right, it's technically not expansion of the game, more consolidation of the heartlands. That would be consistent with the infamous 'rusted on AFL states' comment that Vlandys has come out with twice now.

As you regularly point out, the leadership of the game lacks vision. We don't plant teams in Perth, Adelaide or a second in NZ for an immediate return, we plant them in those places to allow for the game to grow its footprint and bring new fans, players and sponsors to the game, even if that takes a generation or two. Most of the options I've just mentioned though will do no worse than some current clubs are doing straight out of the gates but without the low ceiling for growth.
 

Nqcowboy

Juniors
Messages
157
I know what you mean, as a fellow expansionist I've been constantly frustrated since the turn of the century (returning a team to the Gold Coast isn't really expansion). I was just very curious to hear his comments about the NRL looking more likely to go to 16 instead of 18 based on conversations he's had with them.

On one hand, great to see they've learnt the lessons from 1995, on the other hand, it feels like we are just going to add a second Brisbane team, cut a Sydney team and then shut up shop in terms of expansion for a while. Although we'll take a second team and it is long overdue and will probably be fantastic for the game if done right, it's technically not expansion of the game, more consolidation of the heartlands. That would be consistent with the infamous 'rusted on AFL states' comment that Vlandys has come out with twice now.

As you regularly point out, the leadership of the game lacks vision. We don't plant teams in Perth, Adelaide or a second in NZ for an immediate return, we plant them in those places to allow for the game to grow its footprint and bring new fans, players and sponsors to the game, even if that takes a generation or two. Most of the options I've just mentioned though will do no worse than some current clubs are doing straight out of the gates but without the low ceiling for growth.
Exactly It’d be fair to say the afl knew gws weren’t going to be a success out of the gates but they saw the potential in expanding rather than adding a third wa team
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,771
Would be a waste of money on AFL rusted on states lol
He wants a return to suburban NSWRL comp with a couple of others invited to play.
The way things are headed a SL war 2.0 (or something similar) becomes more and more likely every year.

All we need is a loaded streaming service to come along and see the value in the product, be told to piss off when they try to invest, then think to themselves 'we could just take it', then you've got yourself corporate war.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,771
Thats why I don't believe we will see any expansion at all. There is no value in 1 more team and the NRL isnt in a position to add 2. If it was a genuine intent they would have included it in the negotiations with Fox for this new 7 year deal. Its not there so wont happen. COVID will offer them a convenient excuse to do nothing, again.

Id love to see the NRL get some innovative leadership and use the 9th game to launch an NRL subscriber service in preparation for the future but Vlandys/Abdo are not the leaders the game needs to take such a bold move. Vlandys has locked us into a PTV contract that pretty much sets expansion back until around 2025-27
Putting covid aside, I don't see why the NRL isn't in a position to add two teams, but I agree that the chances of expansion happening in the next few years are slim to none.

The only way I see it happening is if Nine really forces the issue or the NRL has something really sneaky up their sleeves, both of which are extremely unlikely in my opinion.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,849
Exactly It’d be fair to say the afl knew gws weren’t going to be a success out of the gates but they saw the potential in expanding rather than adding a third wa team

AFL have had a vision and long term strategy for being a national sport going back many decades. They have set everything up to achieve this. I get the sense the NRL has zero idea where it sees itself in 5 years, let alone 50!
 

greenBV4

Bench
Messages
2,508
Putting covid aside, I don't see why the NRL isn't in a position to add two teams, but I agree that the chances of expansion happening in the next few years are slim to none.

The only way I see it happening is if Nine really forces the issue or the NRL has something really sneaky up their sleeves, both of which are extremely unlikely in my opinion.

I wonder if the rlpa would agree to a lowering of the salary cap to help fund 2 more teams? on one hand the top paid players would have to take a cut, but on the other theres more oportunity for the ones down the bottom/trying to break in as there would be 60 new jobs
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,849
Putting covid aside, I don't see why the NRL isn't in a position to add two teams, but I agree that the chances of expansion happening in the next few years are slim to none.

The only way I see it happening is if Nine really forces the issue or the NRL has something really sneaky up their sleeves, both of which are extremely unlikely in my opinion.

Again the stupidity of Vlandys and the lack of nrl strategy. We should have offered Fox a 5 year deal and brought in Brisbane in 2022 and Perth in 2024 and had a nine game content package to sell for the new Tv deal in in 2025 on the back of the excitement of a national game, Id have had a massive 2 year marketing campaign around it. Instead we are unlikely to see any movement and when the negotiations come up in '25 or '26 we still have nothing extra to sell.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,849
I wonder if the rlpa would agree to a lowering of the salary cap to help fund 2 more teams? on one hand the top paid players would have to take a cut, but on the other theres more oportunity for the ones down the bottom/trying to break in as there would be 60 new jobs

I dont think they need to and tbh $10mill is about right. It gives the stars the money they want to stay in the game and gives the others enough to earn a decent living. What I do think we need is an expenditure cap so the NRL can grow with the confidence every team is sustainable and also that new teams coming in can generate the revenue needed to survive. It would also make investing in an NRL club far more appealing if they were all making a profit every year. Somewhere in the $23-25million range should be the cap. On a $10mill player salary there really should be no need to be spending more than $13-15mill on other "stuff". Would also give the LC's more money to spend on grassroots rather than bailing out NRL clubs who have uncontrollable spending!
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,409
AFL have had a vision and long term strategy for being a national sport going back many decades. They have set everything up to achieve this. I get the sense the NRL has zero idea where it sees itself in 5 years, let alone 50!

Judging by the AFL's handling of the COVID's effect on their comp, they are all over the shop in arranging scheduling and where to play.I wouldn't be praising them about vision, when they are dithering on something 6 months ahead let alone 5-10 years.
The move of teams to Brisbane is costing them a fortune.They also have had to take a decent drop in TV monies despite a National code.It's nowhere near all rosy for the AFL.
And rest assured once this sh*t stage is over,expansion teams will not be getting the financial backing as they did in the past.
 

greenBV4

Bench
Messages
2,508
Judging by the AFL's handling of the COVID's effect on their comp, they are all over the shop in arranging scheduling and where to play.I wouldn't be praising them about vision, when they are dithering on something 6 months ahead let alone 5-10 years.
The move of teams to Brisbane is costing them a fortune.They also have had to take a decent drop in TV monies despite a National code.It's nowhere near all rosy for the AFL.
And rest assured once this sh*t stage is over,expansion teams will not be getting the financial backing as they did in the past.
They are obviously struggling with the hotel fees, thus their decision to play 30 odd games in 20 days straight to finish up the regular season, they should have the season+finals done and dusted by the end of next month
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,966
Putting covid aside, I don't see why the NRL isn't in a position to add two teams, but I agree that the chances of expansion happening in the next few years are slim to none.

The only way I see it happening is if Nine really forces the issue or the NRL has something really sneaky up their sleeves, both of which are extremely unlikely in my opinion.

Because the NRL don't run the game TV does. TV gets what TV wants.
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,966
AFL have had a vision and long term strategy for being a national sport going back many decades. They have set everything up to achieve this. I get the sense the NRL has zero idea where it sees itself in 5 years, let alone 50!

Agreed. The AFL make strong ground during the SL War, they took advantage of our weakest time and did so very successfully. We have tried to make up ground ever since, ground we had won by 1995. We were a bigger game amongst the corporates and TV back then now AFL are.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,409
When the SL war started and teams were flicked ,the code was at its lowest ebb.To suggest the AFL took advantage of a sick horse lying down was called vision ,is utter BS.It was plain and simple opportunism.
Like playing against a team with two wounded players and no reserves.
We were expanding nationally prior to SL in 95.

AFL gained advantage of the opportunity, due to the disillusion of RL fans. and deep division within the code.AFLs Swans CEO admitted SL was a big leg up.Even the Editor of Rugby League Week(Geoff Prenter) a staunch RL man, gave the game away due to SL and started following the Swans.Go figure.

And a pathetic Tv deal initiated by Gallop with News arm twisting, for $500m for 6 years ,against AFL $780m over 5 years, which left us at the starting post.This set the platform for them securing better deals later.

Vision is wonderful, if you have the finance to back it.I also remember the AFL's vision of sending teams to play in NZ to establish a team there.Where did that end up?

I'm all for expansion with the financial backing on hand.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,849
When the SL war started and teams were flicked ,the code was at its lowest ebb.To suggest the AFL took advantage of a sick horse lying down was called vision ,is utter BS.It was plain and simple opportunism.
Like playing against a team with two wounded players and no reserves.
We were expanding nationally prior to SL in 95.

AFL gained advantage of the opportunity, due to the disillusion of RL fans. and deep division within the code.AFLs Swans CEO admitted SL was a big leg up.Even the Editor of Rugby League Week(Geoff Prenter) a staunch RL man, gave the game away due to SL and started following the Swans.Go figure.

And a pathetic Tv deal initiated by Gallop with News arm twisting, for $500m for 6 years ,against AFL $780m over 5 years, which left us at the starting post.This set the platform for them securing better deals later.

Vision is wonderful, if you have the finance to back it.I also remember the AFL's vision of sending teams to play in NZ to establish a team there.Where did that end up?

I'm all for expansion with the financial backing on hand.

afls plan was already well under way by time of SL war with consolidation growth planned in Perth and Adelaide and relocations of teams out of melbourne. SL and it’s aftermath gave them some clear air to keep moving forward with their national strategy. We are decades behind now and no sign of ever catching up.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,409
afls plan was already well under way by time of SL war with consolidation growth planned in Perth and Adelaide and relocations of teams out of melbourne. SL and it’s aftermath gave them some clear air to keep moving forward with their national strategy. We are decades behind now and no sign of ever catching up.

It may have been in Perth ,it wasn't in Sydney or Brisbane not by a long shot .South Melbourne and Lions,moved as desperate acts.
The Swans nearly fell over 3 times, save twice by Willessee and the guy from Jeans West.They could have folded then.
They stuffed up on the NZ venture.

They have been paying out huge sums on GWS and the Suns.And it was Sheedy who was behind the GWS style push, not the AFL initially.They cannot continue to pay out large sums as their money chest has taken a huge hit.
And the increasing dramas in Vic,just adds to their pain, even though I don't wish that crap on anyone.

We were in front prior to the 95 SL war, so expansion clubs just invited in to the comp, who went over to SL ,have a lot to answer for .If they hadn't gone over,Rupert I doubt would have succeeded, and the code would more than likely have had a national footprint.Rupert only wanted about 4 Sydney clubs and not really the ones that he ended up with.

And the National footprint for the AFL is costing a damn side more under COVID, than they expected.

Whatever we are behind now ,will be somewhat easier to catch up, than it would have been without COVID. "No sign "to catch up, what do you expect under current circumstances? V'Landys finding a vaccine? Sheesh.How about the nRL actually surviving.

The Super League war was a gift, that kept on giving to the AFL for many years.And removal of Sydney clubs will have a similar impact.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,849
It may have been in Perth ,it wasn't in Sydney or Brisbane not by a long shot .South Melbourne and Lions,moved as desperate acts.
The Swans nearly fell over 3 times, save twice by Willessee and the guy from Jeans West.They could have folded then.
They stuffed up on the NZ venture.

They have been paying out huge sums on GWS and the Suns.And it was Sheedy who was behind the GWS style push, not the AFL initially.They cannot continue to pay out large sums as their money chest has taken a huge hit.
And the increasing dramas in Vic,just adds to their pain, even though I don't wish that crap on anyone.

We were in front prior to the 95 SL war, so expansion clubs just invited in to the comp, who went over to SL ,have a lot to answer for .If they hadn't gone over,Rupert I doubt would have succeeded, and the code would more than likely have had a national footprint.Rupert only wanted about 4 Sydney clubs and not really the ones that he ended up with.

And the National footprint for the AFL is costing a damn side more under COVID, than they expected.

Whatever we are behind now ,will be somewhat easier to catch up, than it would have been without COVID. "No sign "to catch up, what do you expect under current circumstances? V'Landys finding a vaccine? Sheesh.How about the nRL actually surviving.

The Super League war was a gift, that kept on giving to the AFL for many years.And removal of Sydney clubs will have a similar impact.

like I said their vision for a proper national comp was set in the 80’s, 2 teams in every heartland city and expansion sides in Brisbane and Sydney. They set up everything to achieve that. SL and RLs management gifted them an easy passage with no threats. The further expansion of two more proper expansion clubs was laid in the early 2000’s. Things like having a flexible grant, the draft, ticket tax on rich clubs, people who could max a Tv deal etc were put in place to make it achievable. In comparison nrl has sat on it’s hands and continued to look backwards and blame 1997 for its subsequent lack of vision and strategy, the game has had more than enough revenue in the last 7 years to have an expansion plan in place and commenced. It still has nothing and no idea., beyond the whims of one man, about what it does about it. Covid is just another convenient excuse to do nothing for the next few years.
 

reanimate

Bench
Messages
3,644
Even the Editor of Rugby League Week(Geoff Prenter) a staunch RL man, gave the game away due to SL and started following the Swans.Go figure.
How do you do that? I get not tuning into the sport anymore if something has really turned you off it, but I don't understand doing a 180 and declaring yourself a fan of the Benny Hill skit masquerading as a professional sport.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,771
It may have been in Perth ,it wasn't in Sydney or Brisbane not by a long shot .South Melbourne and Lions,moved as desperate acts.
The Swans nearly fell over 3 times, save twice by Willessee and the guy from Jeans West.They could have folded then.
They stuffed up on the NZ venture.

They have been paying out huge sums on GWS and the Suns.And it was Sheedy who was behind the GWS style push, not the AFL initially.They cannot continue to pay out large sums as their money chest has taken a huge hit.
And the increasing dramas in Vic,just adds to their pain, even though I don't wish that crap on anyone.

We were in front prior to the 95 SL war, so expansion clubs just invited in to the comp, who went over to SL ,have a lot to answer for .If they hadn't gone over,Rupert I doubt would have succeeded, and the code would more than likely have had a national footprint.Rupert only wanted about 4 Sydney clubs and not really the ones that he ended up with.

And the National footprint for the AFL is costing a damn side more under COVID, than they expected.

Whatever we are behind now ,will be somewhat easier to catch up, than it would have been without COVID. "No sign "to catch up, what do you expect under current circumstances? V'Landys finding a vaccine? Sheesh.How about the nRL actually surviving.

The Super League war was a gift, that kept on giving to the AFL for many years.And removal of Sydney clubs will have a similar impact.
This is a complete rewriting of history, just utter baseless nonsense.

Your assertion that RL was particularly dominant over Aussie Rules prior to the SL war is at best wishful thinking. They were so close that though you could make an argument for either one being larger than the other, you could never come to a satisfying conclusion of that argument.

Your assertion that RL would probably have a national competition now if it wasn't for SL also seems incredibly unclear considering that most of the expansion clubs (Newcastle, GC, SQ, Reds, Auckland) were set up to fail, and others that were having success were being cut off at the knees and cut out of the decision making structure as much as possible (Canberra and Brisbane).

There's no hard evidence that there was a mass exodus of RL fans spontaneously swapping to other sports as a result of the SL war, literally zero evidence, and despite all these lost fans the NRL now is bigger than it's ever been. . . But if you repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth right...

The AFL's grand plans of national domination had been in place for almost two decades before the SL war, and the AFL were having, sometimes slow, but steady growth across board long before the SL war. Yes the Swans and Lions did have jumps in the late 90s/early 00s, but in that time both went into golden ages for their clubs (one that the Swans have only recently started to maybe come out of), so to suggest that their growth happened spontaneously as a result of happenings in RL is utterly ridiculous.

Yes AFL expansion clubs, particularly in the "northern states", have been costly ventures, some have even almost folded on occasion, but that is true of almost every new business that is trying to establish themselves and their product in a new market, and aside from GWS and the GC, whom haven't really be around long enough to have a real impact yet, all of them have payed dividends despite the massive investment by the AFL.

Finally, to suggest that the NRL hasn't had the resources to expand (pre-covid at least) is utterly f**king ridiculous. They've had multiple billion dollar contracts, and prior to recently the AFL achieved more on the expansion front than any other sport with way less resources behind them than that, and it costs about twice as much to run an AFL club as it does and NRL club.
The NRL, and it's predecessors, have almost always had the resources to expand, but because of infighting, certain interest groups having more say than they should, and RL's priorities almost always being arse backwards, they've almost universally chose to piss those resources up against a wall instead of investing them into anything that will build any value long term and/or expedite growth of the sport.
 

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