Which team should relocate to western austrlia?

[Perth Red]

Kinda hard to find an apples to apples comparison but I believe the Bronco's have higher Brisbane views than West Coast has Perth viewers.
Apparently West Coast averages 143000 Perth viewers on FTA, not sure about Fox or Kayo (WA never had the uptake of other states per capita) but I doubt it's tens of thousands more. West Coast is second to Collingwood on Telstra streaming with 51.8million views.
http://www.footyindustry.com/?p=4889

This actually brings up a good question of the benefit of the Perth time slot to the NRL.
Granted there is potential for that -2hours time slot to be a winner but like in the AFL, the fixture will be done to suit the Eastern States markets, Not to suit the WA market.
While the Broncos get a lot of the marquee time slots in the fixtures, West Coast and Fremantle don't get anywhere near as many of the big rating winners of Thursday and Friday night in the AFL as their onfield performance or financial muscle would suggest, because the match time is scheduled for the Eastern markets, which usually runs straight into Peak hour in Perth, with many still stuck at work.
The public transport which both Optus Stadium and HBF Park so heavily rely is pushed uncomfortable levels of congestion.
Thus the WA AFL clubs generally get the dud time slots like Sunday twilight, with the league knowing they are financially strong enough to take the hit, while avoiding the winge-fest (which happens) of the big 4 Melbourne clubs if they dare put them in that slot god forbid. Would be interesting to see the estimates on how much this affects the viewer numbers of the WA AFL clubs, for the worse or negligible.

Rugby League being a shorter game could help the Perth viewers in this case as Kickoff at 6:30pm AWST would help attendees and Perth TV views so much more than the AFL's 5:40/5:50pm bounce downs.

Sunday 4pm Perth, 6pm Eastern States on Fox should be the lock in every other week

 

[Perth Red]

Sunday 4pm Perth, 6pm Eastern States on Fox should be the lock in every other week

Thurs night FTA 7pm
Fri x 2 (7.30pm Qnsland FTA and 7.30 Sydney (Fox))
Sat 3 games - 2pm, 4pm and 7.30 game FTA
Sun 3 games 2pm, 4pm,6pm (WA 4pm every other week) Fox exclusive

 

[Pj,Rj,Hj]

Sunday 4pm Perth, 6pm Eastern States on Fox should be the lock in every other week

Except for across the board, the Perth public hate that time slot.

 

[gallagher]

Except for across the board, the Perth public hate that time slot.

Across the board? I'd love to go to the footy at that time/ day.

 

[Perth Red]

Across the board? I'd love to go to the footy at that time/ day.

he’s talking nonsense as usual

 

[Pj,Rj,Hj]

he’s talking nonsense as usual

Nonsense as usual?
I just don't agree with you, when I agree with you 99% of the time.
I've been on this forum for 11 years and average less than a post a month.
I could be wrong as I can't find the links but I specifically remember articles and twitter comments that West Coast and Fremantle fans and members complain to the clubs about the Sunday twilight fixture.
The Perth Wildcats just in the season gone complained to the NBL about the Sunday twilight fixture with a distinct drop in crowds and viewers.

Then there was the shit show in Melbourne from Eddie McGuire, Collingwood and Carlton that on 35000 showed up because the league dared put them on the mentioned fixture.
Which also has the small Melbourne clubs bemoaning their relegation to that fixture.
So it's not just Perth.
It could be the sports or it could be the viewing culture of the various cities, that traditionally they watched their sport on probably Saturday arvo/evening and hit the pub before and after etc.
Monday night football had more success (but limited) with the Rugby League viewers than the Aussie Rules viewers. The locations viewing culture matters.
I have little doubt the Sunday twilight fixture would be detrimental to crowd attendance and local TV viewers with any Perth NRL team. We'll just have to wait and see in a few years if I'm correct.

 

[Perth Red]

4pm isnt late, the game will be over by 6pm. Its effectively an afternoon game. Saturday is NRLWA game day in Perth so any games on that day or early evening are far more likely to be impacted. Sunday afternoon is free space and 4pm is plenty early enough for kids to attend.
Even better if we have NRLWA game of the week on before the NRL game and the SG Pirates game before that. Open the stadium up at 12 for a Sunday afternoon festival of RL!

12 gates open
12:15 SG Pirates game
2.15pm NRLWA game of the week
4pm WC Pirates NRL game

Most younger people prefer Friday or Saturday night games in any sport I suspect, most families prefer Sunday 3pm, sadly TV dictates everything so fans end up with what TV wants, not what fans want. AFL were KO at 4:40pm and not finishing till gone 7pm in their Sunday slot so that is quite different to RL where a 4pm KO would see the game over and done with before 6pm in most cases. Wildcats love Friday nights. The arena is next to Northbridge and fans love watching the Cats and kicking on into the pubs after the game on a Friday night. Its also got a large city worker following so plenty of people roll out of the offices into a bar than on to the arena on a Friday night to catch a game.

I'm realistic, Perth needs to pay its way and for TV that is the 6pm slot. Id suggest we will still get more at 4pm on Sunday than East coast clubs would get at 6pm on a Sunday. RL is better in daylight hours as well, especially in winter.

 

[MugaB]

4pm isnt late, the game will be over by 6pm. Its effectively an afternoon game. Saturday is NRLWA game day in Perth so any games on that day or early evening are far more likely to be impacted. Sunday afternoon is free space and 4pm is plenty early enough for kids to attend.
Even better if we have NRLWA game of the week on before the NRL game and the SG Pirates game before that. Open the stadium up at 12 for a Sunday afternoon festival of RL!

12 gates open
12:15 SG Pirates game
2.15pm NRLWA game of the week
4pm WC Pirates NRL game

Most younger people prefer Friday or Saturday night games in any sport I suspect, most families prefer Sunday 3pm, sadly TV dictates everything so fans end up with what TV wants, not what fans want. AFL were KO at 4:40pm and not finishing till gone 7pm in their Sunday slot so that is quite different to RL where a 4pm KO would see the game over and done with before 6pm in most cases. Wildcats love Friday nights. The arena is next to Northbridge and fans love watching the Cats and kicking on into the pubs after the game on a Friday night. Its also got a large city worker following so plenty of people roll out of the offices into a bar than on to the arena on a Friday night to catch a game.

I'm realistic, Perth needs to pay its way and for TV that is the 6pm slot. Id suggest we will still get more at 4pm on Sunday than East coast clubs would get at 6pm on a Sunday. RL is better in daylight hours as well, especially in winter.

Well if the broadcasters can prioritize Perth on sunday arvo at that certain time slot every fortnight, their away games can be at anytime, and every other team can take on that timeslot as it is now, (bulldogs seem to have it currently)

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

If Perth was added as the 18th team, wouldn't it be better to have them play their home game at 7.30pm AWST each Saturday or Friday, and the Warriors play their home games the next week at 2pm NZST Sunday. That would have the Perth game on at 9.30pm AEST and the NZ game at 12pm AEST, creating a new time slot for Foxtel.

 

[Pj,Rj,Hj]

Sounds good to me. 7:30pm AWST Friday would rarely go head to head with the Perth AFL teams.
Only potential issue would be Opposition clubs playing til 11:30pm on their body clocks. Then what flight to take out of Perth, stay an extra night or fly out after the game when their bodies say it's 2 in the morning. The AFL stopped doing later evening starts for Perth back in 2000 when the Adelaide Crows kicked up a stink.
Doesn't seem to be an issue in the NBL but Rugby League needs more recovery time than Basketball.
I'm probably over thinking.

Granted I accept that a Perth team will need to play their share of Sunday football, I'd just hate to see it become their locked in fixture.

 

[Perth Red]

If Perth was added as the 18th team, wouldn't it be better to have them play their home game at 7.30pm AWST each Saturday or Friday, and the Warriors play their home games the next week at 2pm NZST Sunday. That would have the Perth game on at 9.30pm AEST and the NZ game at 12pm AEST, creating a new time slot for Foxtel.

Not sure there would be much of a tv audience for a 9:30pm game?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I think this article from the ABC sums up why a Perth team won’t work.

https://amp.abc.net.au/article/10900458

Aussie football was broken
The wild west was humming, but the biggest game in town — Australian football — was at a crossroads.

The game was struggling around the country as well.

In the west, WAFL teams were selling players just to stay afloat, while in Melbourne the teams were crippled by the massive player transfer fees they were forced to pay to remain competitive.

The system was fundamentally broken.

The solution was to include a team from Perth and Brisbane to play in the Victorian Football League with the aim of it eventually becoming a national competition.

Indian Pacific Limited, a private company chaired by Richard Colless — who would become the AFL's longest serving chairman at Sydney — put in an application for a side called West Coast to join the VFL.

They needed to secure the votes of at least eight of the VFL clubs to gain admission to the league.

The agreement with VFL chief executive Ross Oakley was that West Coast would pay $400,000 a year over 10 years.

But on the night of the vote, Mr Oakley rang Mr Colless to say he couldn't get the eight votes, because some Victorian clubs who were fighting for survival wanted all the money up front.

It meant West Coast's bid was dead unless the they could come up with $4 million.

A club essentially set up to fail
Inaugural Eagles coach and prominent administrator Ron Alexander said a deal was made to secure Fitzroy's support.

"What was happening was, clubs like Footscray and Fitzroy were technically broke and my understanding is that Ross Oakley got Fitzroy's vote by agreeing to give them $600,000, which would keep them afloat for the next year," he said.

The final vote was pushed back until October 1986, but in the meantime the Victorian clubs took the opportunity to plunder the West Australian Football League ahead of the potential inclusion of West Coast in 1987.

Players like Nicky Winmar, Michael Christian and Craig Starcevich all found homes on the eastern seaboard before the new Perth-based club had a chance to recruit them.

A range of corporate investors and shareholders of Indian Pacific eventually came up with the money to guarantee admission.

But the conditions placed on the Eagles meant they were essentially set up to fail.

Political games and a toxic environment
It was just the beginning of the hostile reception the team received — and it wasn't just in Melbourne, but at home in WA too.

West Coast's relationship with the WAFL clubs was acrimonious at best, as Alexander explains.

"There were many prominent members of the football world in Western Australia that didn't get a role at West Coast, and many of those people that didn't get a role worked actively against the club."

Cold showers, wet grounds and a hell of an existence
The Eagles weren't allowed to train at Subiaco Oval, where they played their home games, or at any WAFL grounds.

The Victorians didn't roll out the welcome mat either. Sprinklers were left on overnight before West Coast training sessions in Melbourne and cold showers in the changerooms were common.

West Coast was forced to pay for the Melbourne clubs' travel costs when they came to Perth. The draw was tough, on one occasion the Eagles played three times in six days on either side of the country, and the club's squad was restricted to 17 fewer players than other sides.

It was a hell of an existence and it had consequences.

After the 1987 season, and despite winning 11 of 22 games and almost making the finals, the club controversially sacked Alexander as coach, with the chief executive and chairman also let go.

After three seasons the Eagles had lost around $13 million, were broke and on life support.

Amid public calls in 1989 for the Eagles to be scrapped, the West Australian Football Commission assumed 75 per cent control of Indian Pacific. Brian Cook was appointed chief executive and Mick Malthouse was named coach.

​

Western Reds weren’t saddled with as much hardship, yet they went bust because not enough influential people in Perth with deep pockets cared enough to bail them out. If the Eagles were $13 million in debt in 1989, which is far more in today’s currency when you add on inflation, how much do you think it will cost to run an NRL team in Perth?

The other clubs aren’t just going to roll over and accept them with open arms. They will want something in return, just like the Melbournian AwFuL clubs did back in the 80s. The ARLC is set up so the clubs have a say on matters like expansion. Jealousy and self-interest ain’t an RL thing like Perth Red bangs on about. It’s a society wide problem.

We now know why an ARL Commissioner said a Perth team would need $200 million from Twiggy Forrest.

 

[greenBV4]

Because a handful of struggling teams from the oversaturated heartland will feel threatened and want to sabotage it? Sounds about right

But what happened to West Coast? They are one of the largest sports organisations in the country, what happened to Fitzroy? ..

That was also the 80s, leagues can now afford the travel cost to Perth, or atleast every league except the NRL can

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Because a handful of struggling teams from the oversaturated heartland will feel threatened and want to sabotage it? Sounds about right

But what happened to West Coast? They are one of the largest sports organisations in the country, what happened to Fitzroy? ..

That was also the 80s, leagues can now afford the travel cost to Perth, or atleast every league except the NRL can

Perth is a fumbleball city.

You do realise that, right?

If it wasn’t a fumbleball city the Eagles would have been wound up because there wouldn’t have been enough influential people with deep pockets willing to bail them out. The West Australian Football Commission took a 75% share of the company bankrolling the club. There’s no equivalent for a Perth NRL team that will be tens of millions of dollars in debt after its third season. There sure as hell wasn’t in 1997 when the Reds faced this exact same scenario.

Air travel still is still an issue for the Eagles and Dockers.

THE TAXING travel burden on WA-based players and the associated financial cost for their clubs will be eased when more business class seats are provided on cross-country flights from next season.

It was confirmed on Tuesday that the AFL's collective bargaining agreement struck with the AFL Players' Association would cover an additional dozen business class seats for Eagles and Dockers players.

"We're delighted with the 12 business class airfares for our players, we think it's a terrific outcome from a player welfare point of view," Eagles general manager of football Craig Vozzo told AFL.com.au.

"The fact that the AFL are paying for it as part of the CBA is a really good outcome for us as a travelling football club.

"We've always looked to provide additional business class flights for our players, but they've been at our cost in the past, so this is a much welcomed change."

The WA clubs travel significantly further than the other 16 teams, and currently attempt to secure as much extra legroom in business class or exit rows for players wherever possible.

"It would be a great outcome if all 22 to 24 (travelling) players could be sorted with some level of comfort," Vozzo said.

"Player comfort is really important from our point of view, particularly with the older guys, they really appreciate the extra comfort and legroom both pre(-game) but particularly post-game.

"I think it's a really good innovation that's been a long time coming."

The new travel arrangements will go a small way to helping address the competitive disadvantage faced by West Coast and Fremantle.

Retired Dockers legend Matthew Pavlich, who is the AFL Players' Association president, is the only WA-based player to pass the 300-game milestone and understands better than anyone the travel burden.

"In an ideal world, we'd love all players to fly business class all around the country," Pavlich said.

"Clearly that wasn't able to be achievable so the team that flies the most and the furthest, that was a priority to alleviate some of that competitive balance issue.

"It's a good outcome. It's not exactly where nirvana would have been, but it's a good thing for the WA clubs, which I can strongly advocate for."

https://www.afl.com.au/news/47054/travel-upgrade-for-wa-clubs-under-new-cba
​

With all the money AwFuL sinks into Brisbane, Sydney and Gold Coast, it still cannot afford to fly two Perth fumbleball teams around the country in business class. It only covers the costs of 12 business class seats, and only from 2017.

I suspect any Perth-based NRL team will have to fund its own travel. It sunk the Reds.

 

[MugaB]

Geez you love to stick it to the WA teams, not sure the western force have to deal with any airline leg room issues btw, twiggy might just have that covered,
Not to sound too dumb, but why aren't the games shedulers, just sheduling more games in a row at perth so there's less effect on travelling, if west coast or Fremantle have a few games in Melbourne away stay/and train nearby between those 2 weekends, then fly back for more home games in a row scheduled that way, it would be more cost effective, and less travel and toll on the body. NRL should do this if ever there was a perth addition to expansion.
For example lets say hypothetically Toronto Wolfpack became an NRL team, (stupid idea yes but for example purposes), how would the games be scheduled? You'd think they would have a run of 12 home games, then 12 away games, basing themselves in aus for those away games, same could be done for the warriors or perth but obviously broken up moreso since they aren't as far as canada, but a few games in tight turnarounds sheduled to suit, should make far away teams viable..

And to answer the topics headline question?
The team who should relocate to Western Australia, easy the Roosters, they offer nothing to sydney, they have a well run club by the twiggy of the east, politis and are successful enough that a relocation should not affect their fans, as they don't have many, nor with their junior footprint be affected as they have fk all, and have fk all territory to lose to rival codes, which could easily be swallowed up by the sharks of their south, and souths by their west.
I also find it absured they have never been made to be culled or merged, during the SL/ARL end of war consolidating of clubs in 1999. They offer nothing to the league except their own self interest.... which basically means if they are gone to WA or SA a north shore team of the old bears could waltz back in, via CC too, then sydney would be properly covered, instead bondi has a team, but no real northern sydney team between manly to parramatta....
So lets be honest i don't see people marching down george street upset the roosters had been relocated

 

[blue bags]

Geez you love to stick it to the WA teams, not sure the western force have to deal with any airline leg room issues btw, twiggy might just have that covered,
Not to sound too dumb, but why aren't the games shedulers, just sheduling more games in a row at perth so there's less effect on travelling, if west coast or Fremantle have a few games in Melbourne away stay/and train nearby between those 2 weekends, then fly back for more home games in a row scheduled that way, it would be more cost effective, and less travel and toll on the body. NRL should do this if ever there was a perth addition to expansion.
For example lets say hypothetically Toronto Wolfpack became an NRL team, (stupid idea yes but for example purposes), how would the games be scheduled? You'd think they would have a run of 12 home games, then 12 away games, basing themselves in aus for those away games, same could be done for the warriors or perth but obviously broken up moreso since they aren't as far as canada, but a few games in tight turnarounds sheduled to suit, should make far away teams viable..

And to answer the topics headline question?
The team who should relocate to Western Australia, easy the Roosters, they offer nothing to sydney, they have a well run club by the twiggy of the east, politis and are successful enough that a relocation should not affect their fans, as they don't have many, nor with their junior footprint be affected as they have fk all, and have fk all territory to lose to rival codes, which could easily be swallowed up by the sharks of their south, and souths by their west.
I also find it absured they have never been made to be culled or merged, during the SL/ARL end of war consolidating of clubs in 1999. They offer nothing to the league except their own self interest.... which basically means if they are gone to WA or SA a north shore team of the old bears could waltz back in, via CC too, then sydney would be properly covered, instead bondi has a team, but no real northern sydney team between manly to parramatta....
So lets be honest i don't see people marching down george street upset the roosters had been relocated

one of my ideas is, get brookvale oval renovated, the grass surface kept perfect to the highest standards, play a game there every weekend, sorted, the fans would love it
relocate roosters to brookvale, harbourside roosters, playing at brookvale, SFS, n syd oval
relocate eagles to central coast, gosford, central coast sea eagles, play a few at brookie
bring back north Sydney bears , north Sydney oval
you'll have 3 teams playing allover the north side,CC, they could play a few games at the SFS aswell
this plan would sort out the northern area of Sydney, central coast
you could have 1 or 2 games a week in the northern area, CC , fans would love it
cause at the moment the northern CC area is a ghost town for games
where the AFL is moving in fast, and union trying to get bigger
this is rugby league heartland, get it sorted, cooking ASAP
Perth should have there own team, no relocated team

 

[greenBV4]

AFL
AFL-W
A-League
W-league
Super Rugby
Super-W
National Basketball League
WNBL
Australian Baseball League
Big Bash
WBBL
Hockey One
Womens Hockey One
Super Netball

Is that a list of every sports competition in Australia? wait no it doesn't have the NRL, must just be the list of competitions that manage to fly teams to and from Perth..

I seriously don't get why the NRL seems to be the only competition in the country that apparently cannot afford flights to Perth.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

AFL
AFL-W
A-League
W-league
Super Rugby
Super-W
National Basketball League
WNBL
Australian Baseball League
Big Bash
WBBL
Hockey One
Womens Hockey One
Super Netball

Is that a list of every sports competition in Australia? wait no it doesn't have the NRL, must just be the list of competitions that manage to fly teams to and from Perth..

I seriously don't get why the NRL seems to be the only competition in the country that apparently cannot afford flights to Perth.

Spot on! We are acting like a team has to fly back and forth from Europe every fortnight

 

[mongoose]

Geez you love to stick it to the WA teams, not sure the western force have to deal with any airline leg room issues btw, twiggy might just have that covered,
Not to sound too dumb, but why aren't the games shedulers, just sheduling more games in a row at perth so there's less effect on travelling, if west coast or Fremantle have a few games in Melbourne away stay/and train nearby between those 2 weekends, then fly back for more home games in a row scheduled that way, it would be more cost effective, and less travel and toll on the body. NRL should do this if ever there was a perth addition to expansion.
For example lets say hypothetically Toronto Wolfpack became an NRL team, (stupid idea yes but for example purposes), how would the games be scheduled? You'd think they would have a run of 12 home games, then 12 away games, basing themselves in aus for those away games, same could be done for the warriors or perth but obviously broken up moreso since they aren't as far as canada, but a few games in tight turnarounds sheduled to suit, should make far away teams viable..

And to answer the topics headline question?
The team who should relocate to Western Australia, easy the Roosters, they offer nothing to sydney, they have a well run club by the twiggy of the east, politis and are successful enough that a relocation should not affect their fans, as they don't have many, nor with their junior footprint be affected as they have fk all, and have fk all territory to lose to rival codes, which could easily be swallowed up by the sharks of their south, and souths by their west.
I also find it absured they have never been made to be culled or merged, during the SL/ARL end of war consolidating of clubs in 1999. They offer nothing to the league except their own self interest.... which basically means if they are gone to WA or SA a north shore team of the old bears could waltz back in, via CC too, then sydney would be properly covered, instead bondi has a team, but no real northern sydney team between manly to parramatta....
So lets be honest i don't see people marching down george street upset the roosters had been relocated

I think it would be a mistake to relocate the Roosters. Yes they barley have a local junior nursery and the eastern suburbs aren't exactly League heartland these days however they are the one club that have connections to the big end of town and Sydney CBD, which I think is important for League in Sydney. They also have a brand new stadium in the works, it's not confirmed whether Souths will play their regularly.

 

[greenBV4]

I think it would be a mistake to relocate the Roosters. Yes they barley have a local junior nursery and the eastern suburbs aren't exactly League heartland these days however they are the one club that have connections to the big end of town and Sydney CBD, which I think is important for League in Sydney. They also have a brand new stadium in the works, it's not confirmed whether Souths will play their regularly.

What about Souths Rabbitohs, playing at Adelaide? they probably have the most national appeal of any club in the NRL and at the moment a pretty undefined location within Sydney (south sydney but claim their fans are all in the west)

End of the day no club should be forced to relocate, but carrots should definately be dangled for struggling ones (and I wouldn't say this is souths), but it is interesting to speculate purely based of branding etc