Biting the bullet

[macnaz]

One thing we have to keep in mind about our forwards is the fact they were selected or retained with the 2019 version of rugby league in mind and not 2020 coball19 touch footy version. Its all about speed and momentum now and not mainly strength.

 

[Fordy20]

Agree with this. Taller players like Klemmer and Saifiti do enormous damage and generally take 3 players to get on the ground. They showed it last weekl

Sometimes though it isnt the body height or shape. Blore seems to have really good leg drive but Eisenhuth (who is bigger) gets pushed back every time.

I'd hope we're looking at the likes of Christian Welch and Adam Elliot because I think they would complement the young players in our pack quite well. Joel Caine was talking up Elliot as a good style of a bloke the other day on radio (despite the fact he's got form for misbehviour on the drink). Welch sounds very intelligent when interviewed.

How the f**k is Welch off contract?? He's a quality player

 

[Mario chalmers]

This is something I blame the coach for as well. We aren't playing positive footy until it's too late. We go into our shell and it's hard to win that way.

I also think Madge deserves a lot longer at the club. We can't fix our situation until we develop a better roster.

I think if Reynolds and Garner are named ahead of Benji and Lawrence this afternoon it would really shift the teams mindset in terms of performance.


When Benji plays, other players probably wait for him to do something.

I think we play a tougher brand with Marshall out of the side.

 

[Reflector]

That's for sure a good overview of what we have going on

Like if you're a kid and your parents are NOT Tigers fans- what would attract you to them?

Even if you live in an area that's traditionally Balmain/ Wests territory, what would make you identify with a side who only play locally 3 times a year? If you live in the inner west you're more likely to follow the Roosters because it's trendy. If you live out south-west, you're more likely to back the Panthers. If you live in the Parramatta district? Well there's a team who play locally full-time and have been doing pretty well of late, if you hadn't noticed...

Losing this generation of support could really hurt the club in the next decade or so.

 

[Tiger05]

Losing this generation of support could really hurt the club in the next decade or so.

I don't believe this. This could be an issue but it's a rugby league issue in that if there are no supporters the game will disappear.

If the Tigers field a first grade team, they manage their cap well (ideally like the Rorters or Melbourne if you get my drift) and we have a good talent identification system we will be fine.

The Rorters and Melbourne have very few fans and minimal juniors from the local area who make it to the top. They are very successful teams.

If you look at professional sports money and fame/sucess tends to drive players with money being the no 1 driving factor.

 

[Tigerm]

Like if you're a kid and your parents are NOT Tigers fans- what would attract you to them?

Even if you live in an area that's traditionally Balmain/ Wests territory, what would make you identify with a side who only play locally 3 times a year? If you live in the inner west you're more likely to follow the Roosters because it's trendy. If you live out south-west, you're more likely to back the Panthers. If you live in the Parramatta district? Well there's a team who play locally full-time and have been doing pretty well of late, if you hadn't noticed...

Losing this generation of support could really hurt the club in the next decade or so.

I think attracting them is not the issue, it’s keeping them that has been our past problems.

We have let a lot of very good talent go, through a series of stupid decisions. That appears to be changing now and hopefully will reverse past trends.

I do think the club has turned the corner, we are putting in place the things that are expected of modern sport franchises, we are becoming financially strong, so things are looking up.

Just need to get into the top end of the comp, which I think we all agree is the key.

 

[BrotherJim05]

So apparently we have $300k in the salary cap for next year...

This really just re-enforces my OP - we aren't making the 8 next year either. We have a long way to go in clearing the decks and building a roster from the ground up. This is how I see the bones of this developing:

1.
2. Nofa
3. BJ
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Aloai
9.
10. Twal
11. Luciano
12.
13.

These are the players I really feel we need to hold on to. They have proven themselves as first-graders and apart from BJ they put in week in week out. BJ has proved himself enough at other clubs to be damaging when he's on, and realistically I think he's a bit of a package deal with LL who is one of my favourite Tigers at the moment.
Then you have the following players who are still developing:
McIntyre
Blore
Mikale
Garner
Stefano
Talau
Douihi

Let's be realistic, NRL is a brutal game and probably only half these players will kick on to regular FG. Maybe I'm wrong and they will all be superstars...but you get my point.

Everyone else is currently surplus to needs. They basically have until the end of the year (some will scrape through to next year) to prove themselves or they will be gone one way or another.

My point is this - when Tigers finally make the 8, there will probably only be 9 or so players in the starting 17 that are currently playing for us. That's it...9 (or so). We have such a ridiculously long way to go it isn't even funny, and the $300k spare money in the salary cap simply highlights this.

On top of that, it is common knowledge the Wests Tigers have to pay overs for 1st grade players. Not even good ones, it's just the way it is. We need to put a line in the sand this time around and just say "nah, get f**ked". Even if a current Origin player wants to come here, if they are expecting 40% more than they would get at another club just because we are the Wests Tigers...nah...get f**ked.

The only way we are going to build the roster from the ground up is through a numbers game. Sign up all the promising talent that will excel under a coach like Madge and retain the ones who make it by giving them very decent contracts early on.

We will eventually get to a point where we are a whisker away from finals but just need that one (or two) particular game-changing player(s) who will come on the market at the right time when we have cash in the bank to spare. Who that player is, and what position they play is completely dependant on which young players make it and which don't.

My final thought - there is no way...and I mean NO f**kING WAY...we can achieve this without Madge. Whether or not he is the best man for the job is irrelevant. It's too late now, we have to stick with him for the next 4 years no matter what or we are back to square one.

 

[Choiboi]

How the f**k is Welch off contract?? He's a quality player

Back to back ACLs.

Quality guy though. Would be leadership material IMO

 

[Tigerm]

I see the roosters are giving there 7 (Kyle Flannagan) a hard time, I know who his father is, but wonder if he is worth considering. From memory he is a GK as well?

 

[Tiger05]

@BrotherJim05 - good post. Twal should be in the others list. He runs up-right and doesn't dent the line consistently. He is a worker though and probably makes the team assuming no club stupidly offers him a tonne of money.

I agree we need a coach who can identify young talent and hopefully some go on to become stars. We can buy and we have a good record of getting guys like LL. Guys that aren't at that moment getting the game time they deserve and for some reason don't have a huge number of clubs after them.

@Tigerm - I don't know about Flanagan but he kicks goals and we need a goal kicker. The problem is we need a massive improvement in the halves and I'm not sure he is a massive improvement.

 

[Shredder]

Flanagan is a good young half who is still learning his trade and is either the berst or second best goal kicker in the NRL (from memory).

I would swap him for Brooks, even with that extra $300k in a heart beat. HE is a player we could build this club around.

 

[Ron's_Mate]

Back to back ACLs.

Sounds like a Tigers special

 

[Tiger Ted]

@BrotherJim05 - good post. Twal should be in the others list. He runs up-right and doesn't dent the line consistently. He is a worker though and probably makes the team assuming no club stupidly offers him a tonne of money.

I agree we need a coach who can identify young talent and hopefully some go on to become stars. We can buy and we have a good record of getting guys like LL. Guys that aren't at that moment getting the game time they deserve and for some reason don't have a huge number of clubs after them.

@Tigerm - I don't know about Flanagan but he kicks goals and we need a goal kicker. The problem is we need a massive improvement in the halves and I'm not sure he is a massive improvement.

Kyle is a gargantuan improvement on brooks

 

[Tiger05]

Kyle is a gargantuan improvement on brooks

For what we need I agree.

 

[stryker]

So apparently we have $300k in the salary cap for next year...

This really just re-enforces my OP - we aren't making the 8 next year either. We have a long way to go in clearing the decks and building a roster from the ground up. This is how I see the bones of this developing:

1.
2. Nofa
3. BJ
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Aloai
9.
10. Twal
11. Luciano
12.
13.

These are the players I really feel we need to hold on to. They have proven themselves as first-graders and apart from BJ they put in week in week out. BJ has proved himself enough at other clubs to be damaging when he's on, and realistically I think he's a bit of a package deal with LL who is one of my favourite Tigers at the moment.
Then you have the following players who are still developing:
McIntyre
Blore
Mikale
Garner
Stefano
Talau
Douihi

Let's be realistic, NRL is a brutal game and probably only half these players will kick on to regular FG. Maybe I'm wrong and they will all be superstars...but you get my point.

Everyone else is currently surplus to needs. They basically have until the end of the year (some will scrape through to next year) to prove themselves or they will be gone one way or another.

My point is this - when Tigers finally make the 8, there will probably only be 9 or so players in the starting 17 that are currently playing for us. That's it...9 (or so). We have such a ridiculously long way to go it isn't even funny, and the $300k spare money in the salary cap simply highlights this.

On top of that, it is common knowledge the Wests Tigers have to pay overs for 1st grade players. Not even good ones, it's just the way it is. We need to put a line in the sand this time around and just say "nah, get f**ked". Even if a current Origin player wants to come here, if they are expecting 40% more than they would get at another club just because we are the Wests Tigers...nah...get f**ked.

The only way we are going to build the roster from the ground up is through a numbers game. Sign up all the promising talent that will excel under a coach like Madge and retain the ones who make it by giving them very decent contracts early on.

We will eventually get to a point where we are a whisker away from finals but just need that one (or two) particular game-changing player(s) who will come on the market at the right time when we have cash in the bank to spare. Who that player is, and what position they play is completely dependant on which young players make it and which don't.

My final thought - there is no way...and I mean NO f**kING WAY...we can achieve this without Madge. Whether or not he is the best man for the job is irrelevant. It's too late now, we have to stick with him for the next 4 years no matter what or we are back to square one.

Good post which I agree with.
I’m so sick of sycophantic supporters telling us all ‘we’re not far away‘ after we have just missed the finals for a ninth year in a row. Fcken bullshit we are not far away. At least 3 full seasons is my guess. Our roster is dog shit. It will take a long time to fix it.

 

[Old Time Tiger]

I too see your point Brother Jim, I posted in the Warriors game thread the following.


Miller and Luani are 2 examples of who had very high expectations, Luani played Australian Schoolboys Rugby as well. Brown is the pick of the crop from the above.

Maybe what the Tigers need is a Football Manager/Coach/Mentor for the 17 to 20 year old group, I’d go as far as suggesting Todd Payton would be ideal for the job if he doesn’t get a first grade gig. (set him up to take the 1st grade job in 3 years). Let him own th3 junior development side, not coach SG Ball or Harold Matthews but sit above them.I’m sure he also coached a NSW aged team in SOO win over Queensland.

Let the guy, (like Payten) sign his own support team, bring in the likes of Blocker, Farah etc.

Now b4 others say we don’t need guys from the ‘old players club’ there are some that I think are above that shit.

Further to above, today I watched the Many Knights game, thought that Taniela Paseka went ok. It’s been a few years since he was a Tiger but sometimes these Polynesians take a few extra years to hit their straps.

I know it’s impossible to do but how good would it be to have a great club that doesn’t just flick these boys when they don’t make it straight away but keeps them by using a country club so they can use that as a stepping stone before coming ‘home’ to the NRL \ Reserve squad. But that’s a big budget, that only a West Ashfield could bank roll that through a country club (employment in a club) while playing.

 

[Tigerm]

Further to above, today I watched the Many Knights game, thought that Taniela Paseka went ok. It’s been a few years since he was a Tiger but sometimes these Polynesians take a few extra years to hit their straps.

I know it’s impossible to do but how good would it be to have a great club that doesn’t just flick these boys when they don’t make it straight away but keeps them by using a country club so they can use that as a stepping stone before coming ‘home’ to the NRL \ Reserve squad. But that’s a big budget, that only a West Ashfield could bank roll that through a country club (employment in a club) while playing.

That's if the player wants to wait? I think they get a manger and they push them to better money deals asap.
But isn't that what reserve grad is for?
But do agree our retention program has been terrible (hopefully) is in the past now.

 

[Fordy20]

Further to above, today I watched the Many Knights game, thought that Taniela Paseka went ok. It’s been a few years since he was a Tiger but sometimes these Polynesians take a few extra years to hit their straps.

I know it’s impossible to do but how good would it be to have a great club that doesn’t just flick these boys when they don’t make it straight away but keeps them by using a country club so they can use that as a stepping stone before coming ‘home’ to the NRL \ Reserve squad. But that’s a big budget, that only a West Ashfield could bank roll that through a country club (employment in a club) while playing.

That was the first game I've see from Paseka where he really stood up, but I see what you mean. Junior Tatola at the Bunnies is another that comes to mind. I do wonder if some of these players just need a change of scenery in order to kick on. Take Curtis Sironen for example. He had his nose out of joint because Potter moved him from the halves and he didn't really hit his straps until he went to Manly and put some effort in.

 

[Mario chalmers]

So apparently we have $300k in the salary cap for next year...

This really just re-enforces my OP - we aren't making the 8 next year either. We have a long way to go in clearing the decks and building a roster from the ground up. This is how I see the bones of this developing:

1.
2. Nofa
3. BJ
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Aloai
9.
10. Twal
11. Luciano
12.
13.

These are the players I really feel we need to hold on to. They have proven themselves as first-graders and apart from BJ they put in week in week out. BJ has proved himself enough at other clubs to be damaging when he's on, and realistically I think he's a bit of a package deal with LL who is one of my favourite Tigers at the moment.
Then you have the following players who are still developing:
McIntyre
Blore
Mikale
Garner
Stefano
Talau
Douihi

Let's be realistic, NRL is a brutal game and probably only half these players will kick on to regular FG. Maybe I'm wrong and they will all be superstars...but you get my point.

Everyone else is currently surplus to needs. They basically have until the end of the year (some will scrape through to next year) to prove themselves or they will be gone one way or another.

My point is this - when Tigers finally make the 8, there will probably only be 9 or so players in the starting 17 that are currently playing for us. That's it...9 (or so). We have such a ridiculously long way to go it isn't even funny, and the $300k spare money in the salary cap simply highlights this.

On top of that, it is common knowledge the Wests Tigers have to pay overs for 1st grade players. Not even good ones, it's just the way it is. We need to put a line in the sand this time around and just say "nah, get f**ked". Even if a current Origin player wants to come here, if they are expecting 40% more than they would get at another club just because we are the Wests Tigers...nah...get f**ked.

The only way we are going to build the roster from the ground up is through a numbers game. Sign up all the promising talent that will excel under a coach like Madge and retain the ones who make it by giving them very decent contracts early on.

We will eventually get to a point where we are a whisker away from finals but just need that one (or two) particular game-changing player(s) who will come on the market at the right time when we have cash in the bank to spare. Who that player is, and what position they play is completely dependant on which young players make it and which don't.

My final thought - there is no way...and I mean NO f**kING WAY...we can achieve this without Madge. Whether or not he is the best man for the job is irrelevant. It's too late now, we have to stick with him for the next 4 years no matter what or we are back to square one.

I can't accept we've only got $300k in cap space. That is inaccurate reporting

Oliver Clark, Matthew Eisenhuth, Robert Jennings, Chris Lawrence, Benji Marshall, Sam McIntyre, Chris McQueen, Alex Seyfarth, Dylan Smith, Elijah Taylor are all off contract. There'd be close to $1.5mill in contracts there at the very least.

I would not be at all bothered if all these players left and I would say its likely that it occurs. McIntyre and Jennings I could stomach as depth signings.

We have Stefano joining next year and otherwise we're promoting a couple of development players to NRL deals. We also take on Mbye's full earn next year with Canterbury paying some of his freight to now I think.

There would have to be $1.5 mill to spread across what I think I read was 5 spots remaining?

 

[gordsy]

Further to above, today I watched the Many Knights game, thought that Taniela Paseka went ok. It’s been a few years since he was a Tiger but sometimes these Polynesians take a few extra years to hit their straps.

I know it’s impossible to do but how good would it be to have a great club that doesn’t just flick these boys when they don’t make it straight away but keeps them by using a country club so they can use that as a stepping stone before coming ‘home’ to the NRL \ Reserve squad. But that’s a big budget, that only a West Ashfield could bank roll that through a country club (employment in a club) while playing.

How do you ensure loyalty from the modern day players, when all they think about is themselves/